Pre Trib or Post trib rapture?

[greenonions]

Note that most postribbers reframe the 144,000 and have no idea that they are firstfruits.
Then when I get them to examine it they can not honestly deal with who the 144,000 are, or apply the firstfruits dynamic properly.

Then they skip Rev 14;14, which is a gathering, BEFORE the dead rising first", of 1 thes 4.

Postrib rapture doctrine, failed to notice, if the rapture is postrib, then the dead in Christ rise AFTER the living , unless Jesus was confused.

Iow, 1 thes 4 is either in harmony with Rev 14:14, or it isn't.

I say it is.
Postrib doctrine says no.

I think the 144,000 are Israelite Christians who believe throughput the centuries. They are called first fruits (Rom. 11:16; James 1:1, 18)

Rev. 14:14 is the post trib rapture. It fits 1 Thess. 4. Rev. 14:19 is the gathering to Armageddon. Revelation is not completely chronological. See how Rev. 12:5 goes back to the birth of Christ. Rev. 12-14 is a sort of explanatory interlude between the 7th trumpet in Rev. 11 and the seven bowls in Rev. 15. If you read Revelation as strictly chronological, then your rapture is after the seventh trumpet -- not very pre-trib.

 

[greenonions]

The outstanding, unanswered question remains: Why isn’t the church mentioned after Revelation chapter 3?

Because other words are used, like saints or God's servants or the great multitude.

The universal church isn't mentioned in Rev. 1-3 either, just local churches.

 

[Psalm1]

It's in the passage. It's at the coming of the Son of Man. Compare this to II Thessalonians 1.

• When will the church receive rest from tribulation?
  When our Lord Jesus Christ is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels.
• When will God recompense trouble to those who trouble His people?
  At the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ from heaven.
• When will those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ be punished?
  When He comes to be glorified in His saints.

Stop avoiding the questions. Why does this passage teach that the church receives rest from tribulation/trouble (θλῖψις) at the revelation of Jesus from heaven, if you teach that the church won't be here for the tribulation?

And why are the saints here for Jesus to be glorified when Jesus comes executing vengeance on them that know not God?

And is the coming/parousia in II Thessalonians 1:1 the same as the coming in 2:8, just seven verses later.
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
...
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Why would it change in meaning within just that many verses? and if you believe it does, what evidence could you point to from the context for this?

What meaning?
You LEFT OUT the meaning.

Let's see what God's word is saying without your omission:

2 thes 2
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Amazing, what context does to your spin!!!!!!

You just promoted a pretrib rapture!!!!!

 

[Psalm1]

I think the 144,000 are Israelite Christians who believe throughput the centuries. They are called first fruits (Rom. 11:16; James 1:1, 18)

Rev. 14:14 is the post trib rapture. It fits 1 Thess. 4. Rev. 14:19 is the gathering to Armageddon. Revelation is not completely chronological. See how Rev. 12:5 goes back to the birth of Christ. Rev. 12-14 is a sort of explanatory interlude between the 7th trumpet in Rev. 11 and the seven bowls in Rev. 15. If you read Revelation as strictly chronological, then your rapture is after the seventh trumpet -- not very pre-trib.

Does not work at all.

Do you see what you did to the 144,000?

It reads exactly what it says.
144,000 FIRSTFRUIT JEWS.
Jesus is the firstfruits of the church.
So you misrepresented that for some reason.

You said Rev 14:14 is the postrib rapture.
That is 100% impossible.
Rev14:14 has Jesus SITTING ON A CLOUD,HOLDING SICKLE.
It is a rapture of sorts.
It is the gathering of the Jews
(FIRSTFRUIT 144,000 Ethnic Jews...followed by MAIN HARVEST JEWS of rev 14:14. )

There is such a trap for postribs, in that they do not know the purpose of the trib.
The purpose completely escapes you guys.
so you changed that around as well for some reason.

You are working postrib rapture doctrine.
Postrib doctrine thinks, trib, wrath, trumpet, bowls, 7th trumpet, last trump, la Haye, and Darby, which, are all special words that allow changes to God's word.

Your starting place is where you guys get way off.
You are trying to start from a position of, "I don't like the IDEA of a pretrib rapture doctrine."

That is the force behind changing God's word

 

[Psalm1]

That first bit was word salad. I am not sure what you are saying.


If you think think that verse is referring to the tribulation, what about the 'church' people in all the other churches?

I've also heard the church ages interpretation, which puts this at an age prior to the tribulation. There is no mention of keeping that particular congregation from the trial by means of the rapture mentioned in that verse.

QUOTE
"That first bit was word salad. I am not sure what you are saying"

....and yet the following statement by you is broken English for the reader to decipher;
"...when Christ comes back executing wrath on them that no not God when He comes to be glorified in the saints"

Huh?
See how easy that is to play your condescending games?
Like I told you, jettison the silly policeman spirit.
Get over any defects in me personally.
(Maybe take a look at the "BEAM IN EYE", dynamic of Jesus??)

QUOTE
"If you think think that verse is referring to the tribulation, what about the 'church' people in all the other churches?
I've also heard the church ages interpretation, which puts this at an age prior to the tribulation. There is no mention of keeping that particular congregation from the trial by means of the rapture mentioned in that verse."

That is spin you literally made up.
Let's go to the bible;

17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the CHURCHES; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.
THAT is Rev 2.
You really think only 40 people in heaven, from that church, get God's promise?????

Again rev 2
26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
28 And I will give him the morning star.
29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the CHURCHES.

You really think only 40 people in heaven, from that church, get God's promise?????

Rev 2
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

So, no white garment for you in heaven huh?


Rev 2
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the CHURCHES.

yet more blessing that is jettisoned by you.
Only 500 or so believers are eligible for any rewards in the promises to the 7 churches in Asia?.

Ahem....the Bible is to THE READER.
Do you also omit the book of Romans since you are not a Roman?

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

The outstanding, unanswered question remains: Why isn’t the church mentioned after Revelation chapter 3?

You'll find out the hard way since you won't listen to God about it....


🕊

 

[Psalm1]

I did not say they escorted her back to her house.
It's hard to discuss with you because you keep making up ideas other people do not think or say and attributing it to them.

I'll admit to using AI to organize that last message. The bridegroom thing has them meeting with the bride and going, in this case somewhere else. There are other cases where the hosts or the people that live at that location meet the individual and escort said individual back. Just imagine going to pick up someone at the airport and bringing that person home. In Paul's case, people met him on a ship instead of an airplane. That is still a possibility with boat travel.


Let's look at Acts 1. The men said that Jesus would return the same way He went up. If we read the passage, we don't see Jesus ascending, coming back to earth for 7 years, then ascending again.... which would be the case if we were to expect it to happen the same way as with the pretrib rapture scenario.

QUOTE
"I did not say they escorted her back to her house.
It's hard to discuss with you because you keep making up ideas other people do not think or say and attributing it to them."

You gave a scenario pointing to a party meeting up, where the party did a uturn, back to the origination of that party going out to meet Him.

Here is your post;
"The word translated 'meet' in I Thessalonians 4:17 is used on a number of occasions in Greek to refer to going out to meet someone who is 'heading your way' and escort him to where you came from. Sometimes this is an official context, a dignitary or such.
Liddell–Scott–Jones, A Greek-English Lexicon is one of the major dictionaries for ancient Greek. In the entry for ἀπάντησις, that lexicon lists ordinary “meeting” usage, cites Polybius 5.26.8 and Diodorus 18.59, and separately notes an “escort” sense at Polybius 5.43.3. A second major source, Moulton and Milligan’s Vocabulary of the Greek Testament, says the word had become something like a technical term for the official welcome of a newly arrived dignitary. That does not mean the noun itself always guarantees a return to the exact place the greeters came from, but it does show that the word naturally fits scenes where people go out to meet an arriving person and then accompany him onward"

I showed you, where in the rapture Jesus illustrated in mat 25, you were wrong.

Then you diverted into "it's hard to discuss with you...Yada Yada yada."

But you did admit the bride continues with the groom.
So thank you.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

QUOTE
"I did not say they escorted her back to her house.
It's hard to discuss with you because you keep making up ideas other people do not think or say and attributing it to them."

You gave a scenario pointing to a party meeting up, where the party did a uturn, back to the origination of that party going out to meet Him.

Here is your post;
"The word translated 'meet' in I Thessalonians 4:17 is used on a number of occasions in Greek to refer to going out to meet someone who is 'heading your way' and escort him to where you came from. Sometimes this is an official context, a dignitary or such.
Liddell–Scott–Jones, A Greek-English Lexicon is one of the major dictionaries for ancient Greek. In the entry for ἀπάντησις, that lexicon lists ordinary “meeting” usage, cites Polybius 5.26.8 and Diodorus 18.59, and separately notes an “escort” sense at Polybius 5.43.3. A second major source, Moulton and Milligan’s Vocabulary of the Greek Testament, says the word had become something like a technical term for the official welcome of a newly arrived dignitary. That does not mean the noun itself always guarantees a return to the exact place the greeters came from, but it does show that the word naturally fits scenes where people go out to meet an arriving person and then accompany him onward"

I showed you, where in the rapture Jesus illustrated in mat 25, you were wrong.

Then you diverted into "it's hard to discuss with you...Yada Yada yada."

But you did admit the bride continues with the groom.
So thank you.

Well, the great tribulation will be here in several years. So we'll know who is right: God or pre-tribbers.

John 6:39 "And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day."


🕊

 

[Amargosa]

You'll find out the hard way since you won't listen to God about it....


🕊

Please answer the previous question; “Why isn’t the church mentioned after Revelation chapter 3?”

In your answer, please feel to cite scriptural references to legitimize your reply. If I’m wrong about the church not being mentioned after Revelation chapter 3, I’m sure you can prove it from the Bible.

Wishing you a blessed Holy Week.

 

[greenonions]

Does not work at all.

Do you see what you did to the 144,000?

It reads exactly what it says.
144,000 FIRSTFRUIT JEWS.
Jesus is the firstfruits of the church.
So you misrepresented that for some reason.

You said Rev 14:14 is the postrib rapture.
That is 100% impossible.
Rev14:14 has Jesus SITTING ON A CLOUD,HOLDING SICKLE.
It is a rapture of sorts.
It is the gathering of the Jews
(FIRSTFRUIT 144,000 Ethnic Jews...followed by MAIN HARVEST JEWS of rev 14:14. )

There is such a trap for postribs, in that they do not know the purpose of the trib.
The purpose completely escapes you guys.
so you changed that around as well for some reason.

You are working postrib rapture doctrine.
Postrib doctrine thinks, trib, wrath, trumpet, bowls, 7th trumpet, last trump, la Haye, and Darby, which, are all special words that allow changes to God's word.

Your starting place is where you guys get way off.
You are trying to start from a position of, "I don't like the IDEA of a pretrib rapture doctrine."

That is the force behind changing God's word

I quoted references like Romans 11:16 that refers to Israelite believers are first fruits, so I'm not making something up. Are you saying they are first fruits but not first fruits of the church?

You said earlier that Rev. 14:14 was the rapture in 1 Thessalonians 4 (Christians) and now you say it is the harvest of Jews. Which is it?

I grew up pre-trib until I couldn't find the pre-trib rapture in Revelation.

 

[Psalm1]

I quoted references like Romans 11:16 that refers to Israelite believers are first fruits, so I'm not making something up. Are you saying they are first fruits but not first fruits of the church?

You said earlier that Rev. 14:14 was the rapture in 1 Thessalonians 4 (Christians) and now you say it is the harvest of Jews. Which is it?

I grew up pre-trib until I couldn't find the pre-trib rapture in Revelation.

Jesus is no longer the firstfruits of the church?
Do you understand that Jesus is the firstfruits of the first resurrection?

Harvest FOLLOWS firstfruits.

Why are you tying into romans 11?

The subject there is the first people, the Jews, are broken off and the Gentile church grafted in.
They are the first covenant people.
So in a sense " firstfruits".
But it is overgeneralizing that is in the use of romans 11 metaphors.
"Branches"
"Root"
"Lump"
"Firstfruits "

IOW , we are talking apples and oranges.
The use of "firstfruits" in romsns 11 is referring to the past, at the inception of the church, and further. (1st covenant held up against new covenant illustrated by Paul)

Firstfruit 144,000 is future, and does not tie into what you are trying to do.

Rom 11
" If the first fruits be holy, then the lump is Holy. If the root be
holy, then so are the branches"

It is saying a lump of dough is made from holy grain then the whole thing is holy.
If the roots of a tree are holy, so are the branches.

IOW, One that is pure is not pure from rotten roots or rotten grain.

Meaning that God's covenant Jews ORIGINATED in God.
Their covenant is from God.

God,is saying, through Paul, no matter what, they are mine.( the covenant Jews)

 

[Psalm1]

Well, the great tribulation will be here in several years. So we'll know who is right: God or pre-tribbers.

John 6:39 "And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day."


🕊

When is the last day?

 

[presidente]

What meaning?
You LEFT OUT the meaning.

Let's see what God's word is saying without your omission:

2 thes 2
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Amazing, what context does to your spin!!!!!!

You just promoted a pretrib rapture!!!!!

I'm aware that pretribbers like to read the idea into the text That the Holy Spirit is restraining the man of sin and that the Holy Spirit would leave at a pretriational rapture.

But if we read Scripture we see that the church is raptured at the coming of Jesus and that the gathering in this chapter that you refer to occurs at the coming of Jesus and that the man of sin is destroyed at the becoming of Jesus.

Eisegesis is not evidence.

 

[presidente]

QUOTE
"That first bit was word salad. I am not sure what you are saying"

....and yet the following statement by you is broken English for the reader to decipher;
"...when Christ comes back executing wrath on them that no not God when He comes to be glorified in the saints"

Huh?
See how easy that is to play your condescending games?
Like I told you, jettison the silly policeman spirit.
Get over any defects in me personally.
(Maybe take a look at the "BEAM IN EYE", dynamic of Jesus??)

QUOTE
"If you think think that verse is referring to the tribulation, what about the 'church' people in all the other churches?
I've also heard the church ages interpretation, which puts this at an age prior to the tribulation. There is no mention of keeping that particular congregation from the trial by means of the rapture mentioned in that verse."

That is spin you literally made up.
Let's go to the bible;

17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the CHURCHES; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.
THAT is Rev 2.
You really think only 40 people in heaven, from that church, get God's promise?????

Again rev 2
26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
28 And I will give him the morning star.
29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the CHURCHES.

You really think only 40 people in heaven, from that church, get God's promise?????

Rev 2
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

So, no white garment for you in heaven huh?


Rev 2
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the CHURCHES.

yet more blessing that is jettisoned by you.
Only 500 or so believers are eligible for any rewards in the promises to the 7 churches in Asia?.

Ahem....the Bible is to THE READER.
Do you also omit the book of Romans since you are not a Roman?

The promise to be a spared the hour of trial appears only in the message to the church in Philadelphia:

> “Because you have kept the word of my endurance, I also will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world…”
(Revelation 3:10)

Two key elements define the promise:

1. WHY Philadelphia is spared
- They kept Christ’s word
- They did not deny His name
- They persevered under pressure
- They are described as faithful, even though they have “little strength”

The promise is reward language—not a general statement about all churches.

2. WHAT “keep you from” means
The Greek phrase is τηρήσω ἐκ (tērēsō ek).
This can mean:
- Keep out of (prevent from entering), or
- Keep through (protect while it happens)

Why would we Read a pretty tribulational rapture interpretation into this passage when there is no evidence for it anywhere else in scripture?

Do any of the other six churches receive this promise?

No.
Philadelphia is the only church explicitly promised exemption from the global “hour of trial.”

But the church in Smyrna is told in Revelation 2:10
Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.



Again I find your tone very smart alek. If I don't think that promises to the church and Philadelphia apply to all turkeys that is a reasonable assumption and it's not the same as not thinking the doctrine of the book and supplies to the church. There are parts of the epistles that are only to particular churches. Any Bible interpreter would come to that conclusion.

I'm not trying to give you a hard time and I would appreciate it if you had taken attempt at my question. I was using speech to text and it said know instead of no, And I did not catch it.

I would also encourage you to look at some of the themes in those 7 levers for example talking about overcoming and being clothed in white raiment and then seeing the tribulation sinks overcoming the devil and being clothed in white raiment.

 

[presidente]

QUOTE
"I did not say they escorted her back to her house.
It's hard to discuss with you because you keep making up ideas other people do not think or say and attributing it to them."

You gave a scenario pointing to a party meeting up, where the party did a uturn, back to the origination of that party going out to meet Him.

Here is your post;
"The word translated 'meet' in I Thessalonians 4:17 is used on a number of occasions in Greek to refer to going out to meet someone who is 'heading your way' and escort him to where you came from. Sometimes this is an official context, a dignitary or such.
Liddell–Scott–Jones, A Greek-English Lexicon is one of the major dictionaries for ancient Greek. In the entry for ἀπάντησις, that lexicon lists ordinary “meeting” usage, cites Polybius 5.26.8 and Diodorus 18.59, and separately notes an “escort” sense at Polybius 5.43.3. A second major source, Moulton and Milligan’s Vocabulary of the Greek Testament, says the word had become something like a technical term for the official welcome of a newly arrived dignitary. That does not mean the noun itself always guarantees a return to the exact place the greeters came from, but it does show that the word naturally fits scenes where people go out to meet an arriving person and then accompany him onward"

I showed you, where in the rapture Jesus illustrated in mat 25, you were wrong.

Then you diverted into "it's hard to discuss with you...Yada Yada yada."

But you did admit the bride continues with the groom.
So thank you.

What is the bride continuing with the groom have to do with the parable the virgins in Matthew 25. Again the talk with the Yada yada Yada and all that stuff is disrespectful. Can you not act so smarmy in the discussion?

The reason I'm not pretrii I don't see where a separate rapture and separate second coming are taught in scripture. Free tribbers will read that idea into different passages or weave an interpretation of a passage around that idea without any scriptural evidence in the 1st place as a starting point to show any evidence 42 2nd comings. And that includes reading analogies for trib into paramboles and other passages. Answer my questions about second tethelonians 1 and 2.

 

[greenonions]

Jesus is no longer the firstfruits of the church?
Do you understand that Jesus is the firstfruits of the first resurrection?

Harvest FOLLOWS firstfruits.

Why are you tying into romans 11?

The subject there is the first people, the Jews, are broken off and the Gentile church grafted in.
They are the first covenant people.
So in a sense " firstfruits".
But it is overgeneralizing that is in the use of romans 11 metaphors.
"Branches"
"Root"
"Lump"
"Firstfruits "

IOW , we are talking apples and oranges.
The use of "firstfruits" in romsns 11 is referring to the past, at the inception of the church, and further. (1st covenant held up against new covenant illustrated by Paul)

Firstfruit 144,000 is future, and does not tie into what you are trying to do.

Rom 11
" If the first fruits be holy, then the lump is Holy. If the root be
holy, then so are the branches"

It is saying a lump of dough is made from holy grain then the whole thing is holy.
If the roots of a tree are holy, so are the branches.

IOW, One that is pure is not pure from rotten roots or rotten grain.

Meaning that God's covenant Jews ORIGINATED in God.
Their covenant is from God.

God,is saying, through Paul, no matter what, they are mine.( the covenant Jews)

Romans 11:13-16 is talking about Jews who will be saved, i.e. through the gospel of Jesus Christ.

It sounds like you agree there will be Jewish first fruits, but you disagree about whether they are OT Jews, or early church Jews, or 144,000 future Jews. I am tying into Romans 11 just to explain how 144,000 are first fruits. You said it was very hard for posttrib to explain.

 

[BBerean]

Someone was asking about why the church is not mentioned after ch3 ? Well first of all you need to understand that all believers are members of the church , their bodies are the temple of God . Are there any believers after chapter 3 in revelation? Yes many of them .

 

[JayWalker]

Yes many of them .

Yep, revelation saints who got saved after the rapture during the tribulation when every was tribulatin

 

[Amargosa]

Someone was asking about why the church is not mentioned after ch3 ? Well first of all you need to understand that all believers are members of the church , their bodies are the temple of God . Are there any believers after chapter 3 in revelation? Yes many of them .

You changed the word "church" to the word "believers" in the original question. The question is, "Why isn't the church mentioned again afte rRevelation chapter 3?"

 

[Psalm1]

I'm aware that pretribbers like to read the idea into the text That the Holy Spirit is restraining the man of sin and that the Holy Spirit would leave at a pretriational rapture.

But if we read Scripture we see that the church is raptured at the coming of Jesus and that the gathering in this chapter that you refer to occurs at the coming of Jesus and that the man of sin is destroyed at the becoming of Jesus.

Eisegesis is not evidence.

Lol.
You are READING INTO it " one coming?"

Mat 24.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

"My coming is as Noah was before the flood, in the setting of, before the flood,"

You; " Jesus was wrong"

Rev 14:14 JESUS COMES sitting on a cloud, holding a sickle DURING THE TRIB.

REV 19, Jesus COMES TO EARTH riding a white horse as a warrior and avenger in JUDGEMENT AFTRR THE TRIB.

ACTS 1, Jesus is prophesied to return AS IN THE SAME DYNAMIC AND SETTING , AHEM....Pretrib with the audience of his betrothed bride.
No sickle, no trib, no avenger, no judgement, no warrior..

3 DISTINCT COMINGS that you claim are in error.
What you have done is jettison the bible, abd become tribulation, and one liner CENTERED,

Postribbers , as a rule , never center on Jesus.
They are obsessed with making a "false one coming" position.
The "One coming" is actually damage control.
A "uh oh" moment where they FAILED to see the 3 VIVID and clear comings.
Really impossible to miss

Then accuse those with a bible, not paranoid of verses, of no discernment and false exegesis.

You are going against the bible and actually celebrate it.

You think this ( Rev 14;14 ...And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.)
...Is this.......
(Rev 19.....11 and I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.)
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

That is plain nuts and bizarre.
Literally impossible.
Your use of verses is so far off, ...
Ahem....no verses erase others.

No wonder you believe exegesis is bad.