Predestination is misunderstood...

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Thunderrr-mental

Thunderrr-mental

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Shepherd said:
Not always
Example:
Joshua 24:15........as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
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cherry picking will not save you either,

You can only serve the lord if you have faith.

Then your faith must be refined and be completed with salvation.

A dead person can not receive salvation by himself it must be given.

And a spiritualy dead person can ask untill there screaming in the face to receive salvation. If they willfully reject God then the wages for sin is death.


And faith must be given to
 
Shepherd

Shepherd

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Here's another example of "devising our way".....

Genesis 3:6 6And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
 
Thunderrr-mental

Thunderrr-mental

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tylerbones1313 said:
I don't believe in Predestination, OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved), or Unconditional Eternal Security.

Free Will: Many passages that speak of human free will and responsibility, such as Joshua 24:15, Deuteronomy 30:19, and Revelation 22:17. Predestination contradicts free will, making salvation predetermined and human choices meaningless.


To: Everyone

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there is no such thing as a human free will that saves anyone.

And there is no such thing as human free will cancelling out predestination from the lord.

If the lord decides to save you he will.
 
T

tylerbones1313

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Thunderrr-mental said:
there is no such thing as a human free will that saves anyone.

And there is no such thing as human free will cancelling out predestination from the lord.

If the lord decides to save you he will.
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Not if you don't want Him to!! He will not save you by force!
 
Shepherd

Shepherd

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Thunderrr-mental said:
there is no such thing as a human free will that saves anyone. Human freewill does NOT save anyone. that is true.

And there is no such thing as human free will cancelling out predestination from the lord.

If the lord decides to save you he will. God "decided" to offer salvation to everyone, all they have to do is believe on Jesus. That is not a "work" and there is no merit credited to mankind for believing. Trusting Jesus to save you from Hell is a totally selfish act on our part. It's not even an "act", it's simply believing in your heart. Only believe: that's all he asks.
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Cameron143

Cameron143

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Does the natural man possess a heart like the one described in Jeremiah 17:9?
 
Thunderrr-mental

Thunderrr-mental

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tylerbones1313 said:
Not if you don't want Him to!! He will not save you by force!
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you can keep up this false pretence all you like.

The very fact that you say if I don't want to be saved I don't have to be, is a clear utter denial, and disobedience.

Along with @Shepherd who has joined the band wagon of posting blank ignorant responses.

If the lord wills it you will live. And you will do this and that.

He would not will you to say I can reject the lord if i like.

That is something satan would say.

Regrettably people live in denial all there lifes.

Scripture clearly says you can not be certain what tomorrow brings and you need the lord to will your steps.
 
E

Everlasting-Grace

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Thunderrr-mental said:
he was sent into exile, and God would not speak to him. Saul clearly states That God is no longer speaking to him.

It no different to God Saying to the Israelites I will no longer hear your prayers until you welcome the lord.

It's no different to God not answering prayers in the 8 separate verses i posted regarding, God no longer answering prayers of people who have walked with him.

Why is it so difficult to see that faith comes before salvation.
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Who said faith came after salvation?
you have not proved to me Saul ever had faith hence I fail to see your point?
 
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Everlasting-Grace

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John146 said:
Soooo, if it doesn’t fit your private interpretation then it’s wrong?😂
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Private interpretation. Are you Catholic?

Any scholar can look at the Greek and see the present tense word used to denote we are continuing to be sanctified. As apprised to the word perfected. Which is a perfect verb denoting it was a completed action

You want to ignore a fact to continue to idolize your bible feel free

Don’t attack those of us who actually study to show ourselves approved. And rightly divide the word of God
 
E

Everlasting-Grace

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Rufus said:
The penalty of sin is removed at the point of faith at which time justification simultaneously takes place.

Regeneration itself is an act of grace! When Jesus raised Lazarus from his tomb, that wasn't an act of grace?

Again, spiritually dead people have no spiritual ability to do anything pleasing to God. Read Romans 3.
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You’re right it is an act of grace. Just as justification and all salvation is an act of Grace. But it is through faith
God does not raise us spiritually while still under the penalty of sin. That woukd
Go against his true perfect justice.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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HeIsHere said:
Yes.
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We would disagree. It is an uncircumcised heart. It is not without reason that those who were saved the day of Pentecost and responded to Peter's message were first pricked in their hearts.
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

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Best verse describing human free will, 22 And Joshua said unto the people: 'Ye are witnesses against yourselves that ye "have chosen" you the LORD, to serve Him.--And they said: 'We are witnesses.'--
 
Thunderrr-mental

Thunderrr-mental

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Everlasting-Grace said:
Who said faith came after salvation?
you have not proved to me Saul ever had faith hence I fail to see your point?
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so hang on you don't know either way whether Saul had faith or not.

When Samuel clearly stated, that the spirit would come upon Saul and change him.

Why are you in such denial.

Can you not see what's going on here with so many people saying I can reject the lord if I want to.

Can you not see what is being encouraged here.
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

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FollowerofShiloh said:
Best verse describing human free will, 22 And Joshua said unto the people: 'Ye are witnesses against yourselves that ye "have chosen" you the LORD, to serve Him.--And they said: 'We are witnesses.'--
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The reason verse 22 is the best "free will" verse is because these people Joshua is speaking to are descendants of those who SAW GOD deliver them from Egypt, witnessed the parting of the Sea, 40 years of no wearing out of clothing or shoes, saw manna and quail, saw God on the mountain, and they chose to "reject God." But these people, their descendants, "chose to Serve God."

So one group saw God and chose to reject Him and their descendants saw God and chose to serve Him. So "they both saw God" and had free will to reject or serve.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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Thunderrr-mental said:
so hang on you don't know either way whether Saul had faith or not.

When Samuel clearly stated, that the spirit would come upon Saul and change him.

Why are you in such denial.

Can you not see what's going on here with so many people saying I can reject the lord if I want to.

Can you not see what is being encouraged here.
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Can you give the scriptural reference?
 
Dino246

Dino246

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Thunderrr-mental said:
like I said you like to aggravate people further, so no I will not directly answer any more of your question,.

Like it or lump it.
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You're delusional. I am not seeking to aggravate you at all, though I also won't entertain your c**p. Grow a thicker skin.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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FollowerofShiloh said:
The reason verse 22 is the best "free will" verse is because these people Joshua is speaking to are descendants of those who SAW GOD deliver them from Egypt, witnessed the parting of the Sea, 40 years of no wearing out of clothing or shoes, saw manna and quail, saw God on the mountain, and they chose to "reject God." But these people, their descendants, "chose to Serve God."

So one group saw God and chose to reject Him and their descendants saw God and chose to serve Him. So "they both saw God" and had free will to reject or serve.
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The fact that God made us in His image infers freewill.
Do you believe freewill was in any way hindered by sin?
 
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