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At the end of the day this forum is private property. You can accept what is offered for free or you can pay for what is offered for a cost.
I elect to accept what is offered for free and not pay anything for what is offered at a cost.
If you wish to partake of the services that are offered at a cost, the cost is not very much. I hear it is quite cheap. But that is your choice.
To assume that any service should by rights be provided for free is to assume the owner of this site somehow owes us something. That is a false assumption.
I elect to accept what is offered for free and not pay anything for what is offered at a cost.
If you wish to partake of the services that are offered at a cost, the cost is not very much. I hear it is quite cheap. But that is your choice.
To assume that any service should by rights be provided for free is to assume the owner of this site somehow owes us something. That is a false assumption.
Where did I say that the operator owes us anything? I just expressed my opinion that I think it's a pity. (If "pity" is a to hard term I appologise, english isn't my nativ language.) I neither attacked nor condemned the owner for that. Instead you accuse me of being egositic. Thank you! So I'm selfish when I think of people who can't afford it, like the user Blain, for example.
You could also make other functions subject to costs. For example, uploading pictures, which also generates much more traffic and requires more web space than text messages. In my opinion, this would make more sense and is less essential if the purpose of the forum is to connect people. That's just my opinion and not an accusation against the owner of the forum.
You could also make other functions subject to costs. For example, uploading pictures, which also generates much more traffic and requires more web space than text messages. In my opinion, this would make more sense and is less essential if the purpose of the forum is to connect people. That's just my opinion and not an accusation against the owner of the forum.
Perhaps. In a text-based interface it is not always easy to discern tone of the voice, so I might have misinterpreted what you said.
This part right here is what I was looking at. It seems like you are saying that private messages should by all rights and reason be free by definition of what this forum is, and if private messages are not free then this is something wrong that needs to be fixed.
Is that not what you meant by this?
This part right here is what I was looking at. It seems like you are saying that private messages should by all rights and reason be free by definition of what this forum is, and if private messages are not free then this is something wrong that needs to be fixed.
Is that not what you meant by this?
I know I'm terribly late to this thread and it may have already been mentioned...
Regarding making everything free while still drumming up enough money to keep the site running -- I think this place is like all Christian resources. It takes at least some money to run, just like a church building, and it's always a delicate balance of how things will be paid for to keep the lights running, and who should be paying for it.
Should the few pay for the majority to benefit from keeping everything free? And who should the few be who pay, and who should the others be that shouldn't have to pay? It's an age-old question.
To give this site its worthy due, they've tried experiments in the past to try to keep everything free. I've been here since 2009 and have seen a few variations of when they tried running ads to avoid charging members.
However, it seems that they had no way of controlling which ads were shown, and would run into the problem of ads being run that were questionable on a Christian site. (This is very similar to how my Lutheran school was -- they relied on donations from within the congregation and never from the community at large because they didn't want outside influences trying to muscle their way in via money.)
So I really do think the administration has tried its best to be all things to all people, but in the end, some kind of monetary means is still necessary.
The other thing about putting Private Messaging behind a paywall is that it greatly cuts down on the amount of abuse. Back when PM was free-for-all, there were a lot of problems with people stalking others and/or harassing others with inappropriate messages. We used to have a few members who, in the forums, presented only the most Godly of answers and posts, but behind the doors of private messaging, were sending others very inappropriate propositions, resulting in bans that left some people loudly complaining that these bans were unjustified without knowing what was going on.
Now of course, even with a paywall, any of this can still happen.
But I would guess that it really helps to cut down some of the riffraff and makes it a bit more bearable for the volunteer moderators who are putting in their own time for free as it is.
Regarding making everything free while still drumming up enough money to keep the site running -- I think this place is like all Christian resources. It takes at least some money to run, just like a church building, and it's always a delicate balance of how things will be paid for to keep the lights running, and who should be paying for it.
Should the few pay for the majority to benefit from keeping everything free? And who should the few be who pay, and who should the others be that shouldn't have to pay? It's an age-old question.
To give this site its worthy due, they've tried experiments in the past to try to keep everything free. I've been here since 2009 and have seen a few variations of when they tried running ads to avoid charging members.
However, it seems that they had no way of controlling which ads were shown, and would run into the problem of ads being run that were questionable on a Christian site. (This is very similar to how my Lutheran school was -- they relied on donations from within the congregation and never from the community at large because they didn't want outside influences trying to muscle their way in via money.)
So I really do think the administration has tried its best to be all things to all people, but in the end, some kind of monetary means is still necessary.
The other thing about putting Private Messaging behind a paywall is that it greatly cuts down on the amount of abuse. Back when PM was free-for-all, there were a lot of problems with people stalking others and/or harassing others with inappropriate messages. We used to have a few members who, in the forums, presented only the most Godly of answers and posts, but behind the doors of private messaging, were sending others very inappropriate propositions, resulting in bans that left some people loudly complaining that these bans were unjustified without knowing what was going on.
Now of course, even with a paywall, any of this can still happen.
But I would guess that it really helps to cut down some of the riffraff and makes it a bit more bearable for the volunteer moderators who are putting in their own time for free as it is.
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Charging certainly isn't a perfect solution, but it does put up some barriers to access.
For example, if I went back to online dating sites, I'd choose the ones that require an annual fee. I've been on the free sites and they are overrun with marrieds who are "just seeing what's out there," because on a free site, they have nothing to lose. A paid site puts up at least a slight bit more of a hurdle. Not only is the cost somewhat prohibitive, but a married person might have a harder time explaining to their spouse why there's a charge to "Find God's Match 4U Now!" on their credit card bill. And sure, you have the same problems on all the paid sites as well, but I'm willing to pay a fee for even just a little less deception.
Anything that costs money to keep going runs into the same age-old dilemma -- only certain people are going to pay -- so how much riff raff should you put up with from the ones who do pay to keep things going/make it available to those who don't?
If any site, it gets to a point where the only people willing/able to pay are the ones doing all the wrong things -- well, it's time to pack up and move on.
For example, if I went back to online dating sites, I'd choose the ones that require an annual fee. I've been on the free sites and they are overrun with marrieds who are "just seeing what's out there," because on a free site, they have nothing to lose. A paid site puts up at least a slight bit more of a hurdle. Not only is the cost somewhat prohibitive, but a married person might have a harder time explaining to their spouse why there's a charge to "Find God's Match 4U Now!" on their credit card bill. And sure, you have the same problems on all the paid sites as well, but I'm willing to pay a fee for even just a little less deception.
Anything that costs money to keep going runs into the same age-old dilemma -- only certain people are going to pay -- so how much riff raff should you put up with from the ones who do pay to keep things going/make it available to those who don't?
If any site, it gets to a point where the only people willing/able to pay are the ones doing all the wrong things -- well, it's time to pack up and move on.
Heh. Talking about that...
Last night at the auction house I took a look at a guy's laptop. It had been subverted by a scammer who had locked the computer, installed TWO remote desktop apps so he could do stuff on that computer from far away, and a few other things. (I wound up killing the bugs by burning the house down - deleting the whole system and installing a new one.)
At one point I looked through the guy's phone apps, because he said he wanted cashapp gone. (He actually didn't have cashapp installed... It was just messages from (allegedly) cash app.) He had a surprising amount of porn and dating apps, for a married man.
I didn't say anything to his wife, but I feel sorry for her. I just installed a new system and moved on. But bleh!
Last night at the auction house I took a look at a guy's laptop. It had been subverted by a scammer who had locked the computer, installed TWO remote desktop apps so he could do stuff on that computer from far away, and a few other things. (I wound up killing the bugs by burning the house down - deleting the whole system and installing a new one.)
At one point I looked through the guy's phone apps, because he said he wanted cashapp gone. (He actually didn't have cashapp installed... It was just messages from (allegedly) cash app.) He had a surprising amount of porn and dating apps, for a married man.
I didn't say anything to his wife, but I feel sorry for her. I just installed a new system and moved on. But bleh!
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Bingo!
I know paid sites don't seem fair to those who can't or don't want to pay, but this is exactly what happens when everything is free and there are no barriers. The internet makes porn/dating sites on married people's devices commonplace, unfortunately.
A lot of dating apps and porn sites will allow for a few teases -- but they won't let you see "the main events," whether porn or actual profiles and PM's -- unless you pay.
As much as we would like everything to be free, locking services like PM's behind a paywall DOES help cut down at least SOME of this mischief, including here.
I know paid sites don't seem fair to those who can't or don't want to pay, but this is exactly what happens when everything is free and there are no barriers. The internet makes porn/dating sites on married people's devices commonplace, unfortunately.
A lot of dating apps and porn sites will allow for a few teases -- but they won't let you see "the main events," whether porn or actual profiles and PM's -- unless you pay.
As much as we would like everything to be free, locking services like PM's behind a paywall DOES help cut down at least SOME of this mischief, including here.