probably the greatest weakness of Hebrew Roots

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Grace777x70 said:




We do not live now by the oldness of the letter of the law but in the newness of the sin. Sin is transgression of the law - which is why we have died to the law and sin because we died with Christ. We live now from our new creation in Christ. We have nothing to do with the law of Moses anymore. We have the fulfillment of the law - Christ Himself - he is our true life now.

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opps...the part in brown above is supposed to say "We do not live now by the oldness of the letter of the law but in the newness of the spirit".

Newness of sin just doesn't cut it...lol

Romans 5:20 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,

The Law did it's job and brought us to Christ. As we have received Christ - that is how we are to walk - by grace through faith in His work alone.


 
FreeNChrist said:
And that right there is why I do not give truth to those who do not love the truth, as Ravi says it only gives them more ammunition for misunderstanding. I am praying for you.
Click to expand...

This above phrase could be rewritten. "I lie to those who also lie."
It is grevious to call someone a liar without showing what you believe is not true and show
you are right in your interpretation and they are wrong. If it is just perspectives based on
assumptions then this is just slander and a lie in itself.

I have zero respect for anyone arguing like this, it is totally dishonest and does not honour
Jesus's definition of letting your "yes" be "yes" and your "no" be "no".

Purposely confusing issues is so sinful, it dooms people to hell fire.
 
PeterJens said:
This above phrase could be rewritten. "I lie to those who also lie."
It is grevious to call someone a liar without showing what you believe is not true and show
you are right in your interpretation and they are wrong. If it is just perspectives based on
assumptions then this is just slander and a lie in itself.

I have zero respect for anyone arguing like this, it is totally dishonest and does not honour
Jesus's definition of letting your "yes" be "yes" and your "no" be "no".

Purposely confusing issues is so sinful, it dooms people to hell fire.
Click to expand...

You still haven't gotten that help you so need yet I see. Too bad.
 
Grace777x70 said:
leads the natural mind of man
Click to expand...
This language is not even biblical. Paul talks about the wisdom of God being foolishness
to the world, and the wisdom of the world foolishness to God.

This language belongs to the world of the gnostics and secret knowledge. Our knowledge
can only be grasped if you know God like us, else you are doomed to be in opposition.

The truth is emotional loyalties blind one to obvious words which contradict what one
believes, because one assumes they are already dealt with, when this is just not true.

So Jesus declaring His followers are those who obey is a solid principle. It is a benchmark.
Paul declaring through love we fulfill the law is another benchmark.

Now how the law is expressed is the area of discussion, which is open to conscience.

Duality in desire and obedience, is a real reality, the old man and behaviour patterns working
against our aspirations to walk in the ways to the Lord. But this is something we have victory
through the work of the Spirit, transformation of our hearts and obedience to Christ.

No to ex-legalists who construct hyper-legalist condemnation, any walking in response to
Christ words is walking in earning your salvation, rather than taking Jesus yoke upon us
and learning His ways.

It is because the believe a religious construct that doing anything yourself is evil, only if
it is God, is it valid, and obviously most of what we do is us and not God, but they do not
know how to define this, they just know it is, so how dare people claim it is God and not
themselves, when in reality it is us responding to Jesus's commands.
 
FreeNChrist said:
You still haven't gotten that help you so need yet I see. Too bad.
Click to expand...

The insanity of the logic is to oppose obedience to Gods precepts and principles when the
biggest teacher was the most dedicated pharisee there was. But what he denied was justication
through obedience, but that we should obey because we have become love from our hearts.

The old testament demonstrates God blesses and loves the righteous, this is His heart.
Yet these condemner whole effort is to condemn everyone who holds a righteous banner.

And in the end, what our focus is on the blessing through walking with Jesus, and the
destruction that comes from sin, light and darkness. If you know this reality you know
there is no compromise, the Lord of light is brighter than bright, how can we dishonour His
work in our hearts by compromising on love itself.
 
Living from our own natural carnal mind is not a good thing.


1 Corinthians 2:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.


Jude 1:19 (NASB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] These are the ones who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit.

Romans 8:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Colossians 3:1-3 (NASB)
[SUP]1[/SUP] Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

[SUP]2 [/SUP] Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth.

[SUP]3 [/SUP] For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
 
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Yet no one of the opposition will give us a biblical definition of sin.

Because the sin doctrine cannot stand to it.

They must admit defeat to the superior doctrine of the bible and cast aside the doctrine of sin. Or they must choose their love of sin over our fathers word. And the Messiahs testimony, example, and command.
 
PeterJens said:
The insanity of the logic is to oppose obedience to Gods precepts and principles when the
biggest teacher was the most dedicated pharisee there was. But what he denied was justication
through obedience, but that we should obey because we have become love from our hearts.

The old testament demonstrates God blesses and loves the righteous, this is His heart.
Yet these condemner whole effort is to condemn everyone who holds a righteous banner.

And in the end, what our focus is on the blessing through walking with Jesus, and the
destruction that comes from sin, light and darkness. If you know this reality you know
there is no compromise, the Lord of light is brighter than bright, how can we dishonour His
work in our hearts by compromising on love itself.
Click to expand...

Those like yourself who are constantly harping on the sins of "others" is just a trick that folks obsessed with sin play with themselves to try to make themselves feel better about their own sin.
 
Living after the flesh,

The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:19-21

What is really odd is people who put a proposition if you disagree with them you are walking
in the world, following the flesh as above.

But this is obvious sin and nothing to do with following righteousness. Does it say anywhere
trying to be righteous in you behaviour is evil and dooms you to hell? No.

We are doomed to hell because of the works of the flesh which are the opposite of
righteousness.

What is so grevious to these people is they thought God would give them victory in
Christ but they never found it, so feel this is the biggest lie in the church and are
fighting to condemn and expose this, except they are 100% deceived into fighting
against Christ.

What was weird for me was to be blessed in Christ, having insights and revelations
in ministry and the word, and being told I am evil, while the word opens up before
me. So my heart says these people are deeply flawed and commiting apostacy
while I Praise the Lord in my heart. And the people they respect are the worst
examples of heretics in the modern charismatic movement and part of the Latter
reign theological group.

And the points they make are like a recording, simplistic condemnation based on
a few verses taken out of context and interpreted incorrectly while ignoring most
of the tenure of scripture. But then there will always be apostates in this world,
and testers of our true standing, so only those who survive and stand are worthy
of those to be Gods elect.

The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will they leave it. I will write on them the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God
Rev 3:12

Are you victorious, rising up to meet the Lord who you follow?
Know the Lord has blessed you and you can find His fellowship.
 
MacBestus said:
Yet no one of the opposition will give us a biblical definition of sin.

Because the sin doctrine cannot stand to it.

They must admit defeat to the superior doctrine of the bible and cast aside the doctrine of sin. Or they must choose their love of sin over our fathers word. And the Messiahs testimony, example, and command.
Click to expand...

Here, more fodder for misunderstanding for ya....

"...Whatever is not of faith is sin". Rom. 14:23
 
FreeNChrist said:
Those like yourself who are constantly harping on the sins of "others" is just a trick that folks obsessed with sin play with themselves to try to make themselves feel better about their own sin.
Click to expand...

This is not even a rebuttal. I do not care about your sins, they are your problem.
I am concerned about your condemnation of those who walk in righteousness.

But you admiting this, would expose your hypocracy. So you loose as you lie about
what you stand for and what you are doing. That is what it means to walk in darkness.
 
PeterJens said:
This is not even a rebuttal. I do not care about your sins, they are your problem.
I am concerned about your condemnation of those who walk in righteousness.

But you admiting this, would expose your hypocracy. So you loose as you lie about
what you stand for and what you are doing. That is what it means to walk in darkness.
Click to expand...

Oh.....okay......:rolleyes:
 
PeterJens said:
Living after the flesh,

The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:19-21

What is really odd is people who put a proposition if you disagree with them you are walking
in the world, following the flesh as above.

But this is obvious sin and nothing to do with following righteousness. Does it say anywhere
trying to be righteous in you behaviour is evil and dooms you to hell? No.

We are doomed to hell because of the works of the flesh which are the opposite of
righteousness.

What is so grevious to these people is they thought God would give them victory in
Christ but they never found it, so feel this is the biggest lie in the church and are
fighting to condemn and expose this, except they are 100% deceived into fighting
against Christ.

What was weird for me was to be blessed in Christ, having insights and revelations
in ministry and the word, and being told I am evil, while the word opens up before
me. So my heart says these people are deeply flawed and commiting apostacy
while I Praise the Lord in my heart. And the people they respect are the worst
examples of heretics in the modern charismatic movement and part of the Latter
reign theological group.

And the points they make are like a recording, simplistic condemnation based on
a few verses taken out of context and interpreted incorrectly while ignoring most
of the tenure of scripture. But then there will always be apostates in this world,
and testers of our true standing, so only those who survive and stand are worthy
of those to be Gods elect.

The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will they leave it. I will write on them the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God
Rev 3:12

Are you victorious, rising up to meet the Lord who you follow?
Know the Lord has blessed you and you can find His fellowship.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your partial listing of sins. Does the new testament have a full list? Or does it tell (in at least three places I seem to recall someone saying that puts.an end to the matter...) where such a list to be found? In context. I am sure you wouldnt be referring to me with.the out of context remARk.as I usually post have a chapter to.stop the out of context one liners.many.people try. In fact i have been known to go so far as post concordance entries alongside as well. Context.is key.

So care to take another crack?
 
FreeNChrist said:
Here, more fodder for misunderstanding for ya....

"...Whatever is not of faith is sin". Rom. 14:23
Click to expand...

Okay..so in other words you refuse to or do not know. So you rely on misdirection.

You can not define an item by its source.

An apple is not an apple tree for all it grew on one and has the seeds of apple trees nestled inside.

Hint. Look the bible.Ravi is not a.primary.source.
 
FreeNChrist said:
Here, more fodder for misunderstanding for ya....

"...Whatever is not of faith is sin". Rom. 14:23
Click to expand...

And that is the very reason why Paul said "The righteous shall live by faith"...and the Law is NOT of faith.

If someone wants to practice the Law - than they must live by that Law. They must keep all the law - not break it up to make it look "do-able". That is showing a very low respect for the law.

Thank God for the law as it brought us to Christ Himself for salvation, life and righteousness. This all comes by grace through faith in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection only.

Galatians 3:11-12 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, "THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."

[SUP]12 [/SUP] However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, "HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM."

 
MacBestus said:
But you are getting warmer. Keep reading
Click to expand...

LOL. It's a definition of sin and it's in the Bible, seems to meet all of your criteria. Why are you now resistance to biblical truth? I thought you were all about that?
 
Grace777x70 said:
And that is the very reason why Paul said "The righteous shall live by faith"...and the Law is NOT of faith.

If someone wants to practice the Law - than they must live by that Law. They must keep all the law - not break it up to make it look "do-able". That is showing a very low respect for the law.

Thank God for the law as it brought us to Christ Himself for salvation, life and righteousness. This all comes by grace through faith in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection only.

Galatians 3:11-12 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, "THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."

[SUP]12 [/SUP] However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, "HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM."

Click to expand...

Ahhh, but we know our new buddy will slice and dice the Law, cheapen it, reducing it to what makes it seem doable for him. Just like all those before him.
 
FreeNChrist said:
Ahhh, but we know our new buddy will slice and dice the Law, cheapen it, reducing it to what makes it seem doable for him. Just like all those before him.
Click to expand...

Well...let's have a look-see at the law in the Old Covenant and see what the Lord says about it. It is "to do all" the commandments.

Deuteronomy 28:1-2 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] "Now it shall be, if you diligently obey the LORD your God, being careful to do all His commandments which I command you today, the LORD your God will set you high above all the nations of the earth.

[SUP]2 [/SUP] "All these blessings will come upon you and overtake you if you obey the LORD your God:

This sounds good if one can "do all the commandments"....but, what happens if one doesn't do them "all"? There are 2 sides to this law.

Deuteronomy 28:15 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] "But it shall come about, if you do not obey the LORD your God, to observe to do all His commandments and His statutes with which I charge you today, that all these curses will come upon you and overtake you:

Paul says that there is a difference between the Old and the New Covenant but if one wants to live by the Old - then they must practice the whole law and then live by that law - whether the good or bad comes.

Galatians 3:11-12 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, "THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."

[SUP]12 [/SUP] However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, "HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM."


Now let's contrast this with the New Covenant in which Christ has fulfilled the law for us that are in Christ.

Ephesians 1:2-3 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

[SUP]3 [/SUP] Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,


Galatians 3:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE"—


For we - I chose to believe in what Christ has done for us on the cross and that now we walk in newness of life and this is all done by grace through faith in Christ alone.
 
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MacBestus said:
Thank you for your partial listing of sins. Does the new testament have a full list? Or does it tell (in at least three places I seem to recall someone saying that puts.an end to the matter...) where such a list to be found? In context. I am sure you wouldnt be referring to me with.the out of context remARk.as I usually post have a chapter to.stop the out of context one liners.many.people try. In fact i have been known to go so far as post concordance entries alongside as well. Context.is key.

So care to take another crack?
Click to expand...

There is a danger in your way of thinking. You can loose the wood for the trees.

Paul is emphasising love fulfills the law. You do not need to itemise any form of the
law to know you are fulfilling if you love.

If you are in sin, causing harm and dishonouring the Lord, He will bring it out.
For David it was a prophet.

So maybe there is something you also need to learn, where too much emphasis on
definitions can derail the Holy Spirit and His work.

What I have discovered is often we have a church of strangers who do not know
how to be of one mind and trust each other. But this was Pauls heart.

It burnt so strongly in him he said everything would resolve in the end, but learning
how to love each other with respect and understanding was the path to achieve
this.

This is my perspective, God bless you on your perspective, may it bring glory to
His name.
 
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