Prophesied by Joel...

[Wansvic]

Yes I know some folks but what I’m saying is in acts chapter 2

The gift of tongues was necassary for the apostles to be able to preach the gospel to all the people who spoke other languages. It wasn’t just incoherent babbling they were speaking the gospel to the crowd and everyone was hearing it …..in thier own native language it’s a ministry gift essential for speaking the gospel to others of a different language is my point.

Speaking in tongues associated with receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit differs from the spiritual gift of tongues. (1 Cor. 12)

According to Paul, spiritual gifts flow from those who already have the Spirit dwelling within. A message spoken in an unknown tongue required someone operating in the gift of interpretation to present the message in the known language of a group. "If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God." This was not what was going on at Pentecost. The only plausible explanation is God. was the interpreter, He gave understanding to those present. Those who HEARD what was said in their language were not even filled with the Holy Spirit yet.

Keep in mind, the word reveals understanding comes through rightly dividing with word of truth.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Well, I would say, the text in Acts 2 was only for to proof the jews that this was from God!
Later is nowhere recordet that this speaking in tongues was for to preach the gospel.
Also in beginning of the Pentecostal movement in 1906 they thought that this gift was to preach the gospel in other languages. What finaly not worked.

sure , my poo t was the example used in the op ….acts chaoter teo and Joel’s prophecy eas about the word of God being preached and prophesied by his servants and maidservants in order to spread the word so people of all nations and tongues can hear it and believe and be saved

“And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, And your young men shall see visions, And your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, And signs in the earth beneath; Blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before that great and notable Day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:17-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Peter begins speaking by that tongue of fire and spirit explainkng things because now he’s speaking by Gods holy spirit like Jesus was in the gospel .

It is also a sign to all unbelievers

“Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭14:22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

In other words if a person who doesn’t know or speak your language begins speaking the gospel to you in your own language it’s a small
Wonder sign to you to invite you to become a believer …..


All the sudden all theee in educated Galileans spoke these several different languages but perfectly anf preaching a coherent message that was “ the wondrous works of God in thier ears who heard it ……it was Gods spirit speaking through his apostles in acts two that’s all I’m trying to say

Joel’s prophecy is about the word of God bieng spread and a person being made able to spread all the different languages or “tongues “ is tangibly necassary to accomplish the great commission

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Speaking in tongues associated with receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit differs from the spiritual gift of tongues. (1 Cor. 12)

According to Paul, spiritual gifts flow from those who already have the Spirit dwelling within. A message spoken in an unknown tongue required someone operating in the gift of interpretation to present the message in the known language of a group. "If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God." This was not what was going on at Pentecost. The only plausible explanation is God. was the interpreter, He gave understanding to those present. Those who HEARD what was said in their language were not even filled with the Holy Spirit yet.

Keep in mind, the word reveals understanding comes through rightly dividing with word of truth.

“According to Paul, spiritual gifts flow from those who already have the Spirit dwelling within.”

right they all received the spirit first then began speaking in other tongues. They had to because they were told to preach the gospel to everyone . I’m talking about acts two and Joel’s prophecy in the op …….

 

[Wansvic]

Yes, at the beginning God employed miracles as needed until the church was firmly established,
after which time (the end of the apostolic era) the method of persuasion via preaching became normative,
which means physical miracles became rather rare as the spiritual miracle increased and spread.

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. " John 14:12 The implication is after Jesus returned unto the Father every believer would have the opportunity to be filled with the Holy Spirit. And as such, be equipped to carry on what Jesus began to do and teach. (John 16:7)

Praise God! He is still adding to the church. He's the same yesterday, today and forever!

 

[Edify]

In Acts 2, those hearing people speak in languages ask what it means. Some marvel at the miracle, while others mock.
Peter gave a direct answer. This is that which was prophesied by Joel. "This" the "speaking in tongues" that you are now seeing and hearing is what Joel prophesied about. The prophecy is specific, in the last days I will pour out my Spirit. In other words, when you see someone speaking in tongues it means they have received the Holy Spirit as prophesied by Joel.

Some ask, If speaking in tongues is the evidence that accompanies receiving of the Holy Spirit, why doesn't the Bible just plainly say so? The Bible actually does say it plainly; in story form. When the question was asked, what does this speaking in tongues mean? Peter gives them a direct answer straight from Joel's prophecy. So, when you see someone speaking in tongues you know they have received the Holy Spirit.

"Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear." (Acts 2:33)

Acts 2, 10, and 19 set the pattern. Each confirms speaking in tongues is the direct evidence of the initial indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 10 - they heard them speak in tongues. That experience confirmed to Peter and others that the individuals had actually received the Holy Spirit. And as seen elsewhere in scripture nothing other than tongues confirms the initial experience; not believing in Jesus, saying a sinner's prayer, or having strong feelings, etc.

Acts 11 - Peter gives an account of what occurred in Acts 10. He indicates the people spoke in tongues proving they had received the Holy Spirit and as such God intended they be water baptized in the name of Jesus as well.

Acts 19:6-7 (This is the last detailed account some 20+ years after the witness of the truth revealed at Pentecost)
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
And all the men were about twelve.


A Visible Sign of the Invisible:

Acts 8 - Confirms receiving the Holy Spirit is identifiable.
How could the people be so sure that those who believed and were water baptized had not received the Holy Spirit? And what made the people so sure that the experience had occurred a few days later? (Acts 8:14-19)

Clearly it was not just the laying on of hands that proved the experience occurred. Simon wanted to buy the ability to do what he witnessed when the apostles laid hands on the people. Think about it. There's no need to pay to have the ability to lay hands on a person. It is clear he wanted to buy the power to demonstrate the receiving of the Holy Spirit.

(There must have been a definite, supernatural
sign for Simon the Magician to be impressed enough to
desire it. Simon apparently wanted to buy and use this
miracle in his magical shows; he desired the power to lay
hands on people and have the miraculous sign manifest
itself.) New Birth-Bernard

As revealed elsewhere in scripture, speaking in tongues is the visible sign God chose to reveal when the invisible Holy Spirit initially enters one's body.

God chose the sign. And He certainly does not have to explain Himself. However, some biblical records point to the possible reason why He did it.

1. Tower of Babel = God used tongues as a means to separate people who were disobedient. A reversal of this is seen at Pentecost. God is bringing people back into one body - into unity.

2. James 3 - reveals human beings cannot tame the unruly tongue. However, God can and does when people submit to Him. Speaking in tongues is a conscious act of surrender.

3. There are many external signs when the Holy Spirit is present in an area. As to Pentecost, the wind indicated the Holy Spirit had arrived in the upper room. And flaming tongues sat atop each person revealing that what was about to happen was for all individually.

Speaking in tongues is different in that the sign comes from the inside out after God has taken up residence in one's body.

While I like your post, there are two innaccuracies:
1. The Holy Spirit enters a person at salvation. Speaking in tongues is the visible sign God baptized a christian in the Holy Spirit , a separate work of the Spirit that empowers the believer.
2. The HS takes up residence at salvation. Speaking in tongues is evidence that the baptism has taken place.

 

[Wansvic]

Yes, and the filling was with love (Matt. 5:44, John 13:35, Eph. 3:16-19),
which caused them to share the Good News as the HS enabled.

The verse is crystal clear..."And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost and began to speak with other tongues as the Spirit gave utterance. " Acts 2:4

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Well, I would say, the text in Acts 2 was only for to proof the jews that this was from God!
Later is nowhere recordet that this speaking in tongues was for to preach the gospel.
Also in beginning of the Pentecostal movement in 1906 they thought that this gift was to preach the gospel in other languages. What finaly not worked.

sure remember “ Jews “ doesn’t mean isralites living and born in Jerusalem this is well after Babylon scattered them into all nations the first time so

“And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilæans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judæa, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this? Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:4-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

What my point is isnt to disparage the gift of tongues other people experience or anything but this post seems to be about Joel two . My point is that Joel two is fulfilled there at pentocost and is about the apostles spreading the gospel to all languages and peoples

I’m not trying to argue about the gifts of the spirit Paul speaks of Elsewhere but talking about Joel chapter 2

 

[CS1]

Well, I would say, the text in Acts 2 was only for to proof the jews that this was from God!
Later is nowhere recordet that this speaking in tongues was for to preach the gospel.
Also in beginning of the Pentecostal movement in 1906 they thought that this gift was to preach the gospel in other languages. What finaly not worked.

First, one must Look at what Jesus said in Acts 1:8 in context to the Empowerment of the Holy Spirit Jesus is the final and supreme authority when he is speaking on any topic.

The Baptism in the Holy Spirit is done by Jesus John 1:33 Jesus said go and wake until you have been endowed with Power Luke 24:49

Jesus said the empowerment of the Holy Spirit was for the PURPOSE of being a powerful witness of HIM.

This empowerment can happen Before water baptism, after, or at the same time as the Holy Spirit so chooses.
The empowerment can happen at the time one is saved or after.

As shown in the word of GOD.

 

[Wansvic]

Well, every believer who is baptised with the Holy Spirit has Him living inward. Thats what we called born again. Will you say that all Christians I met in my life, including me, are deceived? That we dont have the Holy Spirit, because we dont spoke in tongues, when we was born again?
After the biblical time, I mean the time during the apostles lived, you find speaking in tongues bot genuine in the churches. But you find it in cults. The Pentecostals are called Pentecostal, because of that what happend in 1906 in Azusa Street. Before the name Pentecostals as church did not exist.
There are 2 meetings before: 1901 in Topeka and one meeting 1896. Some prepentecostal roots found in 1886 and 1879.
But the first person, which is historical proofed was Agnes Ozman in 1901 in Topeka.
So if you claime, that speaking in tongues is a normal sign of every believer who received the Holy Spirit. Then, out of cults, very rare bornagain believers exist before 1901. In some countrys then non. F.e. in australia.

Btw
The quotet text In Luke 11,13, you put an little bit out of the context.
✝ Luke 11:13

"If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?"

And this was before pentecost.

Jesus spoke of many things that came to pass after His death, burial and resurrection. And as Jesus said, the Holy Spirit could not come until after He departed.

 

[wolfwint]

sure remember “ Jews “ doesn’t mean isralites living and born in Jerusalem this is well after Babylon scattered them into all nations the first time so

“And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilæans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judæa, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this? Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:4-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

What my point is isnt to disparage the gift of tongues other people experience or anything but this post seems to be about Joel two . My point is that Joel two is fulfilled there at pentocost and is about the apostles spreading the gospel to all languages and peoples

I’m not trying to argue about the gifts of the spirit Paul speaks of Elsewhere but talking about Joel chapter 2

Yes, but if you take Joel 2, then it can be only a partly fulfillment. Because Israel was not living in peace amd freedom in the time of Acts 2.

 

[wolfwint]

Jesus spoke of many things that came to pass after His death, burial and resurrection. And as Jesus said, the Holy Spirit could not come until after He departed.

Thats true. One time we agree 😀

 

[CS1]

Yes, but if you take Joel 2, then it can be only a partly fulfillment. Because Israel was not living in peace amd freedom in the time of Acts 2.

that is not the only thing that was said, so the Pouring out of the Spirit happened as Joel Prophesied, and Peter confirmed that. You continue to not see that.

 

[GWH]

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. " John 14:12 The implication is after Jesus returned unto the Father every believer would have the opportunity to be filled with the Holy Spirit. And as such, be equipped to carry on what Jesus began to do and teach. (John 16:7)

Praise God! He is still adding to the church. He's the same yesterday, today and forever!

Yes and the greatest work is love that achieves unity.

 

[Magenta]

1 Corinthians 12:8-11, 28 It states that to one is given wisdom, to another knowledge, to another faith, to another healing, to another miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another interpretation of tongues.
As you can see here the gift of tongues is not given to all the spiritual sign gifts are distributed throughout the body, so for the gift of tongues to be the sign one has the holy spirit that would contradict scripture, you say it tells by story telling that it is plainly spoken yet this verse does not need story telling it plainly showns that the gifts are distributed

Romans 12:6-8 We have different gifts according to the grace given us. If one’s gift is prophecy, let him use it in proportion to his faith; if it is serving, let him serve; if it is teaching, let him teach; 8if it is encouraging, let him encourage; if it is giving, let him give generously; if it is leading, let him lead with diligence; if it is showing mercy, let him do it cheerfully.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Yes, but if you take Joel 2, then it can be only a partly fulfillment. Because Israel was not living in peace amd freedom in the time of Acts 2.

🙂what I m sayong is read what peter says by the holy ghost

“But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon upon all flesh ; And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, And your young men shall see visions, And your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:16-18‬ ‭

When all the people heard these Galileans speaking in tbier own native language they were hearing the witness of the apostles coherently

“And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilæans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judæa, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:4, 6-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

do you see my point ? If they were just babbling in jibberish or incoherent language nonone understood it wouldn’t have been a sign to those people and drawn them to the message …….

In order for two different languages to communicate and translate a message you need one who speaks the language , and then they be who interprets and understand for those who don’t speak the language as well , in order to speak a message and translate it to another language.

if it’s just a made up language there’s no sign but if a man who doesn’t speak my language suddenly starts speaking it perfectly then there’s something to draw my close to listen something mysterious and unexplained . If they are just babbling then then being drunk would have made sense but instead they were fluently spreaking the languages of all the many different people that were there that day to worship .

the gifts of the spirit are always for the spreading of the gospel and building up of the church , the body of Christ. Tongues seems to be a tangible effective tool that is required in order to bring to pass the great commission of witnessing the gospel to all languages and peoples

i know people who pray on to goes and everything too and I’m not disparaging those people or saying they don’t really have a gift . Again the point I’m making is about Joel’s prophecy about the spirit being poured out and then the people would begin to prophesy or “ speak Gods word “ and see visions like revelation for instance.

The God given ability to speak and interpret intelligably , the message in all languages they encountered on tbier travels. Is necassary for the gospel to be spread to all those people .

 

[Brasspen]

The gift of tongues was necassary for the apostles to be able to preach the gospel to all the people who spoke other languages. It wasn’t just incoherent babbling they were speaking the gospel to the crowd and everyone was hearing it …..in thier own native language it’s a ministry gift essential for speaking the gospel to others of a different language is my point.

KJV 1 Corinthians 14:1-4
{14:1} Follow after charity, and desire spiritual [gifts,]
but rather that ye may prophesy. {14:2} For he that
speaketh in an [unknown] tongue speaketh not unto men,
but unto God: for no man understandeth [him;] howbeit in
the spirit he speaketh mysteries. {14:3} But he that
prophesieth speaketh unto men [to] edification, and
exhortation, and comfort. {14:4} He that speaketh in an
[unknown] tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth
edifieth the church.

It also says, but I was unable find it, that with tongues it sounds like babbling to a visitor in church. But with prophecy you can expose the heart of the man and he would repent, saying God truly is with you.

 

[lrs68]

{14:2} For he that
speaketh in an [unknown] tongue speaketh not unto men,
but unto God: for no man understandeth [him;] howbeit in
the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

This is what is most important when it's a person alone and by themself praying to God. This is the get into your closet or while fasting type of prayer that is extremely effective. I agree that tongues is not necessary in a Church congregation setting but it's very effective when you can be alone with God.

One thing, it's the Holy Spirit of God speaking and the Spirit is speaking mysteries that only God is able to understand.

And that can only be beneficial to and for you when God is helping you pray for the things He knows you need.

 

[Wansvic]

1 Corinthians 12:8-11, 28 It states that to one is given wisdom, to another knowledge, to another faith, to another healing, to another miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another interpretation of tongues.
As you can see here the gift of tongues is not given to all the spiritual sign gifts are distributed throughout the body, so for the gift of tongues to be the sign one has the holy spirit that would contradict scripture, you say it tells by story telling that it is plainly spoken yet this verse does not need story telling it plainly showns that the gifts are distributed

What happened at Pentecost differed from what is explained in 1 Corinthians 12. Many conflate the experiences.

At Pentecost, 100% of those filled with the Holy Spirit spoke in tongues. And there is no mention of anyone being used in the gift of interpretation. Those who did not have the Holy Spirit HEARD the message in their own language. In addition, all detailed accounts indicate every individual who received the Holy Ghost spoke in tongues.

 

[Wansvic]

sure , my poo t was the example used in the op ….acts chaoter teo and Joel’s prophecy eas about the word of God being preached and prophesied by his servants and maidservants in order to spread the word so people of all nations and tongues can hear it and believe and be saved

“And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, And your young men shall see visions, And your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, And signs in the earth beneath; Blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before that great and notable Day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:17-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Peter begins speaking by that tongue of fire and spirit explainkng things because now he’s speaking by Gods holy spirit like Jesus was in the gospel .

It is also a sign to all unbelievers

“Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭14:22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

In other words if a person who doesn’t know or speak your language begins speaking the gospel to you in your own language it’s a small
Wonder sign to you to invite you to become a believer …..


All the sudden all theee in educated Galileans spoke these several different languages but perfectly anf preaching a coherent message that was “ the wondrous works of God in thier ears who heard it ……it was Gods spirit speaking through his apostles in acts two that’s all I’m trying to say

Joel’s prophecy is about the word of God bieng spread and a person being made able to spread all the different languages or “tongues “ is tangibly necassary to accomplish the great commission

Joel's prophecy was about God pouring out His Spirit upon all flesh.

"Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear." Acts 2:33

 

[Wansvic]

“According to Paul, spiritual gifts flow from those who already have the Spirit dwelling within.”

right they all received the spirit first then began speaking in other tongues. They had to because they were told to preach the gospel to everyone . I’m talking about acts two and Joel’s prophecy in the op …….

Tongues is the sign that individuals have been filled with the Holy Ghost.