Query about different thinking of when a person dies, how come many different interpretations

[TMS]

The soul that sins shall die.
The only being that has immortality is God 1Ti 6:15-16 ..."Who only hath immortality,..."

When you say the Spirit leaves the body, prove that the Spirit is a conscious person that is still alive.

The Bible is clear that the breath of life that God gives us, goes back to Him when we die. The spirit of life that God put in us returns to God.
The body without the spirit is dead.
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Dust + the breath of life = a living soul.

Gen 7:21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, ......and every man: 22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life,...
Gen 25:8 Then Abraham gave up the ghost, and died in a good old age,...
Mar 15:37 And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost.

Ghost = G1606
Transliteration: ekpneō
Thayer Definition:
to breathe out, breathe out one's life, breathe one's last, expire

Ghost does not mean soul...
Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

This is death.... the opposite of Gen 2:7.

The dust returns to the ground and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

Gen 7:21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, ....and every man: 22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life....
Job 27:3 All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;
Jas 2:26 KJV For as the body without the spirit is dead,....

It is clear what the Bible teaches..

Act 2:29,34 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
David is dead and has not ascended to heaven.....

 

[John146]

The soul and spirit of Lazarus were indeed in Heaven, but his body was in the tomb.

Lazarus was in heaven without the shed blood of Jesus Christ and even without knowledge of the shed blood of Jesus Christ? Don't you mean Abraham's bosom?

 

[Magenta]

Just seriously interested in what the Word says about this. When Jesus calls Lazarus to
come forth from his grave, if Christ said, Lazarus come down, then that might have implied
Christ was calling Lazarus down from heaven? But it wasn’t, Christ likened death to a sleep?

John 3:13
No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the Son of Man.

 

[Edify]

Lazarus was in heaven without the shed blood of Jesus Christ and even without knowledge of the shed blood of Jesus Christ? Don't you mean Abraham's bosom?

Abraham's bosom/Paradise. Paul was caught up to it, & Jesus told the thief on the cross he was going there.

 

[Omegatime]

Eph. 4:9 (In saying, “He ascended,” what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He who descended is he who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Ater 3 days jesus said:


Jesus said to her, “Do not hold me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brethren and say to them, I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.”

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Because the Bible has two testaments

under the Old Testament

“And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So under that when a person died who believed in God

“And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thy days approach that thou must die: call Joshua, and present yourselves in the tabernacle of the congregation, that I may give him a charge. And Moses and Joshua went, and presented themselves in the tabernacle of the congregation. And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭31:14, 16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this is what they we’re told when they were going to die that they would sleep for many days with thier ancestors before them later when David came there’s a distant promise

“And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.”
‭‭2 Samuel‬ ‭7:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

later in the distant future God would lift them up from death

“Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭37:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the New Testament when Jesus came with salvation also life had come back to the world of the dead

“Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?”
‭‭John‬ ‭11:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

eventually jesus died and is raised up and then everything changed for those who had slept the promise was brought forth

So prophecy

“I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.”

fulfillment

“Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭27:50-53‬ ‭

people read the Old Testament and it tells what happens after they die but the New Testament is not the same it leads to everlasting life wheras the old had lead to death and the grave

when jesus rose from death he took power of death away from Satan now there is no prison of death or long sleep ahead for believers but instead we have everlasting life

“And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭1:17-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Until Jesus became a man overcame sin and died entering death, satan held the power of death that always hangs over man’s head

“Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; and deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus changes life and death for mankind when he became one of us and delivered mankind from the power of death by his perfect life offered in our place

“And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭23:42-43‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Note he didn’t tell the man he was going to rest with his ancestors but that he would be in paradise with the lord that same day

the ot brought man death by sin because they transgressed the nt brings a restoration a resurrection a new birth a new life reconciliation it promises just as isreel was promises it promises a resurrection when Christ returns to gather his people according to the New Testament promises

Jesus coming changed those things and some don’t recognize that part is why I think people have different ideas we read different t things in the ot and nt

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

If the soul or spirit or any part of us continues to live for ever before Jesus give us life or without the gift from Christ, this verse is not true.

Perish = perish

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth;

they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;

and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[John146]

Abraham's bosom/Paradise. Paul was caught up to it, & Jesus told the thief on the cross he was going there.

See post #25. Before the resurrection, paradise was in the heart of the earth across from hell. Its location now is the third heaven. The Lord did not ascend to his Father until after three days and three nights, after his resurrection.

 

[TMS]

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth;

they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;

and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The two resurrections are seperated by 1000 years read Rev 20, 21
Rev 20:14-15 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

The second death is for the wicked. And they perish. If they do not perish why did John 3:16 say so.

Or do the wicked live forever ?? No they perish.

 

[TMS]

Luk 23:39-43
39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. 40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. 42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

If the words of Christ is true Jesus took the thief to heaven that day...

Verily I say unto thee to day, you shalt be with me in paradise.

This states that Jesus told the that day.

The comor is not in the original text. It was added...

Test it...

Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Jesus has not ascended to heaven on Sunday.
Luk 23:43 KJV And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Jesus did not go that day or the next....

 

[Nehemiah6]

Lazarus was in heaven without the shed blood of Jesus Christ and even without knowledge of the shed blood of Jesus Christ? Don't you mean Abraham's bosom?

That's right. The OT saints went to Heaven only after the resurrection of Christ.

 

[Adstar]

The Bible is very clear. Physical death is the SEPARATION of the soul and spirit from the body. The body lies in the grave and simply gives the appearance of sleep. The soul and spirit either go to Heaven or to Hades based upon that person's relationship to Christ. The soul and spirit of Lazarus were indeed in Heaven, but his body was in the tomb. So he was told to come forth out of his tomb. Resurrection means that the soul and spirit are reunited to the deceased's body.

I would say: Resurrection means that the soul and spirit are brought into union with a new eternal and perfect body.

 

[Adstar]

I think there is a confusion with the difference between a physical body resurrection and the continuation of the existence of the Soul / spirit in Heaven/ Hell..

Jesus said that no one has ascended into heaven but He that came down from heaven Jesus.. Jesus was talking of the Physical assent of His body into heaven and so He was correct.. No one has ascended to heaven in their physical body apart from Jesus because Jesus was without sin and His body was not corrupt..

So we can look upon the Resurrection as being when the deceased's soul/ spirit are once again united with a physical body.. It's not a resurrection to existence as if our soul/ spirit ceases to exist when we die.. But a resurrection back to physical life.. This time being in a new perfect and eternal body..

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The two resurrections are seperated by 1000 years read Rev 20, 21
Rev 20:14-15 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

The second death is for the wicked. And they perish. If they do not perish why did John 3:16 say so.

Or do the wicked live forever ?? No they perish.

“The two resurrections are seperated by 1000 years “

“But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth;

they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;

and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-29‬ ‭

“When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: and before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: for I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment:

but the righteous into life eternal.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:31-32, 34-36, 40-43, 45-46‬ ‭

“And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life,

and some to shame and everlasting contempt.”
‭‭Daniel‬ ‭12:2‬ ‭

“And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God;

and the books were opened:

and another book was opened, which is the book of life:

and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:11-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Seems relatively clear to be honest everyone’s spirit is going to be raised up whether they did good or evil to be judged that’s all Jesus meant by resurrection of the righteous and wicked

“But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: and that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be,….. it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.

There is a natural body,

and there is a spiritual body.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:35-37, 44‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And as it is appointed unto men once to die, ( flesh )

but after this ( spirit ) the judgment:”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:27‬ ‭

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:6, 8, 10‬ ‭

The first resurrection was Christ the ot saints the one he promised them in tbe ot when the messiah rose

“and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭27:52-53‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

For as in Adam all die, ( first man ot )

even so in Christ shall all be made alive. ( first man nt )

But every man in his own order:

Christ , the firstfruits; ( ot prophets and saints early church of Jesus generation )

afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.”( those who rise at the end when Jesus returns )
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:20-23‬ ‭

There was a resurrection promosed in the ot to israel when the messiah rose that happened they are the firstfruits along with the martyrs of the early church predominately a group of ot Jews and also the foret generrtion who lived under the ot and new are also included in the firstfruits who rose up when Jesus did and are reigning with him now and have been a long time

revelation says this early on

“Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. ( written appx 65 ad but of course that’s always debatable )
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭1:3

a there are two testaments with two seperwte promises of a resurrection the ot would occur upon his first coming the other at his second coming

We in the nt are part of this one the last resurrection

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there’s just the two mass resurrection promises in the doctrine of the prophets and gospel everyones spiritual body will be raised some will live and others will perish in the lake of fire but first well all be raised up

 

[happydolphin007]

“The two resurrections are seperated by 1000 years “

“But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth;

they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;

and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-29‬ ‭

“When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: and before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: for I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment:

but the righteous into life eternal.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:31-32, 34-36, 40-43, 45-46‬ ‭

“And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life,

and some to shame and everlasting contempt.”
‭‭Daniel‬ ‭12:2‬ ‭

“And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God;

and the books were opened:

and another book was opened, which is the book of life:

and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:11-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Seems relatively clear to be honest everyone’s spirit is going to be raised up whether they did good or evil to be judged that’s all Jesus meant by resurrection of the righteous and wicked

“But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: and that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be,….. it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.

There is a natural body,

and there is a spiritual body.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:35-37, 44‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And as it is appointed unto men once to die, ( flesh )

but after this ( spirit ) the judgment:”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:27‬ ‭

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:6, 8, 10‬ ‭

The first resurrection was Christ the ot saints the one he promised them in tbe ot when the messiah rose

“and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭27:52-53‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

For as in Adam all die, ( first man ot )

even so in Christ shall all be made alive. ( first man nt )

But every man in his own order:

Christ , the firstfruits; ( ot prophets and saints early church of Jesus generation )

afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.”( those who rise at the end when Jesus returns )
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:20-23‬ ‭

There was a resurrection promosed in the ot to israel when the messiah rose that happened they are the firstfruits along with the martyrs of the early church predominately a group of ot Jews and also the foret generrtion who lived under the ot and new are also included in the firstfruits who rose up when Jesus did and are reigning with him now and have been a long time

revelation says this early on

“Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. ( written appx 65 ad but of course that’s always debatable )
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭1:3

a there are two testaments with two seperwte promises of a resurrection the ot would occur upon his first coming the other at his second coming

We in the nt are part of this one the last resurrection

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there’s just the two mass resurrection promises in the doctrine of the prophets and gospel everyones spiritual body will be raised some will live and others will perish in the lake of fire but first well all be raised up

What does this mean please, seperwte?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

What does this mean please, seperwte?

Old Testament promise to israel for resurrection when Christ came the first time

“Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭37:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Fulfillment of that promise when Christ was raised up victorious over death

“and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭27:52-53‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The New Testament promise of a resurrection when Jesus returns from heaven

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There are two resurrections in n the doctrine of the Bible one was promised to Israel’s faithful in the Old Testament this was according to the promises made to them regarding the messiahs first coming

Then when he came he began promising a resurrection at the end of the world when he would come back again from heaven

There is a harvest at the end of each testament the first oertwined tonisrsel and thier covenant and culminated when Jesus came

“Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?”
‭‭John‬ ‭11:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we in the New Testament are t waiting for Jesus to come thhe first time like they were we’re waiting for what the new testement promises that Jesus will return from heaven and all the dead from all time will be raised and judged
By thier deeds in the end

sits seems hyper simple we have two testaments in the Bible one is specific to a single nation of people and those who converted to thoer covenant.

Then he made a new covenant with new promises of a resurrection when he returns


One resurrection of the ot applying to israel

and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭27:52-53‬ ‭KJV‬‬

One promised to all people at the end of the world when Jesus returns

“And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:11-12, 14-15‬ ‭

There are two testaments in the Bible is all I’m saying each one has its own promises each holds a promise of resurrection and both resurrections happen when Christ appears the first time and then When he comes back and judges the world that last day

“And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭17:30-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There are two resurrections because there are two covenants promising them one happened then one will happen when he returns with that lake of fire and judgement

 

[montana123]

Just seriously interested in what the Word says about this. When Jesus calls Lazarus to come forth from his grave, if Christ said, Lazarus come down, then that might have implied Christ was calling Lazarus down from heaven? But it wasn’t, Christ likened death to a sleep?

Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Lazarus would of not gone to heaven for Jesus was not resurrected yet so he would of been in the grave which is considered sleeping for everyone will resurrect whether good or bad.

 

[Researcher]

What does this mean about the souls under the altar?


🍪

I believe that the Throne Room is in fact Abraham's Bosom (Paradise). The Souls 'under the altar' are resting and waiting for Resurrection Day. This is why death is called sleep.

Some researchers compare the Brazan Altar to a foreshadow of Hell or even the Lake of Fire. If this is true, then 'under the Altar' is a place that is separated from Hell (like what we see in the Rich Man and Lazarus).

 

[glf]

Just seriously interested in what the Word says about this. When Jesus calls Lazarus to come forth from his grave, if Christ said, Lazarus come down, then that might have implied Christ was calling Lazarus down from heaven? But it wasn’t, Christ likened death to a sleep?

Heb 11 tells us of those who have gone before us and have died in faith. Then in Heb 12: 1, we're told, "Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin that does so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us."

How can those who are sleeping be witnesses?
Paul also said that it is far better to be with the Lord than to remain here, but how can that be true if we're sleeping?
Or to be absent from the body, is to be present with Lord. Not very present if we're asleep.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

...the importance of careful consideration and exploration of Biblical Texts...

Precious friend, A Very Warm Welcome; do you mean
harmonization, like this?:

Scriptural 'death', For our Comfort:

By "What Saith All The Scriptures?" on This Important Doctrine:

man/woman/child = a tripartite being?:

"And the very God of Peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray​

God your Whole spirit and soul and body be preserved​

blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."​

(1Th 5:23; Comfort 2Co 1:3-4)​

​

A Divider/Discerner of the [internal] Two:

"For The Word of God Is Quick, and Powerful, and Sharper Than ​

any two-edged sword, Piercing Even To The Dividing Asunder Of soul ​

AND spirit, and of the joints and marrow, And Is A Discerner of the​

thoughts and intents of the heart." (Heb 4:12)​

Death?:

"...the body without the spirit is dead..." (Jam 2:26)​

1) When the body is dead, it becomes ignorant and hence
"knows not anything" (Ecc 9:5), "returning to dust" (Ecc 12:7):

2) "the spirit returns ( from the body ) back to God Who Gave it" (Ecc 12:7)

What about "the soul"? Some think it disappears into
nothingness/annihilation - huh?:

What Saith The Scriptures?:

3) "the soul departs" (Gen 35:16-19):

a) Jesus Clearly Taught UNbelievers' souls go to the "place of torment,​

having vision, speech, feeling, and remembering everything"​

(Luk 16:19-31) "across the great fixed gulf" From:​

​

b) Believers (previously) went to "paradise (in the earth) =​

Abraham's bosom" - Confirmed:​

​

b1) Jesus, Just Before His Death, Clearly Said [ to the repentant thief ]:​

​

"To day thou Shalt Be With Me In Paradise!" (Luk 23:43) -​

​

How could "God, The Son" obliterate Into 'nothingness'? - Confirmed by:

​

b2) "I AM The God of Abraham, and The God of Isaac, and The God of Jacob?​

God Is not The God of the dead, but of the living." (Mat 22:32)​

Amen:​

OT living souls departed and "gathered Unto their own people!":

"And thou shalt go [ living soul that departs ] to thy fathers in​

peace; thou shalt be buried [dead body ] in a good old age."​

(Gen 15:15)​

​

"Abraham gave up the ghost...and was gathered to his people.​

And his sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Mach-​

pelah, in the field of Ephron..." (Gen 25:8-9)​

​

"And Isaac gave up the ghost, and died, and was gathered unto ​

his people, being old and full of days: and his sons Esau and​

Jacob buried him." (Gen 35:29)​

​

Jacob (v 1):

"...I am to be gathered Unto my people [ living soul ]: bury me​

with my fathers [ dead body ] in the cave that is in the field​

of Ephron the Hittite," (Gen 49:29)​

​

So, the critics will argue that the 'dead body' "buried with fathers" =
"gathered with their people," and 'the soul is Non-existent,' Correct?:

What Saith The Scriptures?:

​

"And when Jacob had made an end of commanding his sons, he​

gathered up his feet into the bed, and yielded up the ghost, and ​

was gathered unto his people." (Gen 49:33)​

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ↕ existing ↕​

Immediately his "living soul departed to paradise in Abraham's bosom!"
Correct? Note: It was more that 70 days Later Before Joseph's 'body' was
even buried! (Gen 50:2-13)

+ Further Confirmed By:

b3) The prophet Samuel's [ dead body ] was buried Nowhere​

Near his father Abraham's in "the cave of Machpelah," Correct?​

So that Cannot be the critic's theory "gathered to​

his fathers/people," Right?​

​

"And Samuel died; and all the Israelites were gathered together, and​

lamented him, and buried him in his house at Ramah." (1Sa 25:1)​

Further Confirmed by King Saul "disturbing 'Samuel's rest,' getting the
witch at Endor to call up Samuel from the dead" (1Sa 28:7-20)

Again, critics complain that this is a "demon (one of the gods 'ascending
out of the earth'" [ theory ] that "appeared to the witch and Saul." huh?
The witch "identified him as Samuel." Did she lie?

Now, it is possible demons might know this, from the past?:

"Because thou obeyedst not the voice of the LORD, nor executedst​

His fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath the LORD done this​

thing unto thee this day." (1Sa 28:18)​

​

But, how in heaven's name, did God Give demons the "gift of prophecy,"
to predict the future?:

"Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the​

hand of the Philistines: and​

​

to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me:​

​

the LORD also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand​

of the Philistines." (1Sa 28:19)​

Thus, there were No theoretical demons in Paradise, So "after
Samuel went back to resting In Paradise," the next day, Saul and
Jonathon were killed in battle, and "gathered Unto their people,"
with Samuel, As Prophesied," Correct?

b4) In the future, John saw:​

​

"...fifth seal, I saw under the altar the [ living ] souls of them​

that were slain [ dead bodies ] for The Word of God, and for​

the testimony which they held" (Rev 6:9)​

​

"...cried out with loud voice...Given white robes..." (vs 10-11)​

​

How is that 'nothingness/annihilation [ no comfort ],' when these are
"living and conscious," Correct?

Scriptures Get Even Better! = Very Comforting!!:

c) ...( But now ), for believers, Under God's Grace!:​

​

In Christ's Revelation Of The Mystery To Paul, He Teaches:​

​

"For to me to live is Christ, and to die Is Gain!" (Phil 1:21)​

+​

"For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to Depart { soul },​

And To Be With CHRIST; which Is Far Better!" (Phil 1:23)​

+​

"...we are always Confident, knowing that, whilst we​

are at home in the body, we are absent from The LORD:​

( For we walk by faith, not by sight: )​

​

We are Confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from ​

the body, and to be Present With The LORD!" (2Co 5:5-8)​

Where?:​

​

"...Paradise in The Third Heaven!..." (2Co 12:1-4) = Very Comforting,​

Correct?:​

​

Further Confirmed in Resurrection:

1Th 4:13 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning​

them [ souls ] which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which​

have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so​

them [ souls ] also which sleep in Jesus Will God Bring With Him."​

​

God does Not Bring 'nothingness' but, "living souls" With Him! Amen.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bears repeating! Correct?:

"I AM The God of Abraham, and The God of Isaac, and The God of Jacob?
God Is not The God of the dead, but Of the living." (Mat 22:32)

LORD Jesus, thanks So Much for All Of Your Comforting Words, we can
find and believe, From You In Your Pure/Preserved Word Of Truth! Amen.