I actually like the snow man... Can you show me something pagan about the actual Nick that put gold down the poor mans chimney, or the snowman? I like O Holy night as well.. and a white Christmas
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QUESTION! (about Christmas and Easter)
- Thread starter T_Laurich
- Start date
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For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope. Romans 15:4 prographo - to write before (of time) - of old set forth or designated beforehand (in the scriptures of the OT)
Does it negate the OT scriptures? NOT at all - they are there for us to learn from.
Well thanks for the enlightenment friend, and here I thought it was God's will to send the Christ (Jesus birthday) and Easter (the resurrection) for our good. So what strange word of truth do you read? Please understand what you read before you make comments...thankyou..I sometimes have the same problem but not on your reply.
K
kennethcadwell
Guest
There is nothing wrong with any of that at all.
What I said was the underline meaning of why you do it. Do you do it for the Lord our God and just to have fun, or are you doing it to worship a pagan deity ?
I know some branches of the church that would tell you watching TV or listening to the radio is paganistic, does not mean it is. It depends on why, how, and who you are doing it for.
K
kennethcadwell
Guest
No the author did not lie.
Look at what I actually said, and go read Hebrews 10:19-25. He says in those verses how one becomes perfected forever by the blood of Jesus. Verse 19 starts off by saying to enter heaven by the cleansing of Jesus blood, then the following verses say what to do to be covered and perfected.
No where . . . the point is I am not worshipping these things as "gods" and that is the point of the scripture in the OP - And a curse, if you will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other "gods" which you have not known. The Easter bunny is NOT my "god" nor is the Christmas tree - I do not worship them in any manner.
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, giveth God thanks. . . . I know and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean to him it is unclean. . . .
If you believe it is "unclean" then DON'T celebrate those days but don't judge others who see no wrong in it!
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Read what you posted, it makes no sense.
It says God perfected those forever by HIS BLOOD.
then you say it takes more than blood to be perfected forever. and it is not even a forever perfection.
see how you contradict yourself in one paragraph?
It's like a gun... A gun itself is not evil, the intent of the man behind that gun can be evil or just...
Im not sure what you are saying here...
but Easter and Christmas have nothing to do with Messiah, they were added by sun worshiper Constantine.
He is a brief study I put together.
[video=youtube;AK7AqKnKvEs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK7AqKnKvEs[/video]
So T_Laurich, when did you become a proselytizer for the Hebrew Roots movement. I'm not just talking about this thread, but every post you seem to be making. It seems you went away for a while, and came back in a cult.
So do you deny the atonement of Christ?
"The Hebrew Roots Movement is a heretical cult that has many factions. Therefore, it is difficult to explain all of their doctrines. The crux of their heresy is that they deny the atonement of Christ by denying that He fulfilled the Mosaic Law. They further deny the work of the Holy Spirit by rejecting the “Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus” (The indwelling of the Holy Spirit) that sets us free from the law of sin and death (the Mosaic Law) (Romans 8: 1-4)"
The Hebrew Roots Movement | TruthKeepers
Question: "What is the Hebrew Roots movement?"
Answer:The premise of the Hebrew Roots movement is the belief that the Church has veered far from the true teachings and Hebrew concepts of the Bible. The movement maintains that Christianity has been indoctrinated with the culture and beliefs of Greek and Roman philosophy and that ultimately biblical Christianity, taught in churches today, has been corrupted with a pagan imitation of the New Testament gospels.
Those of the Hebrew Roots belief hold to the teaching that Christ's death on the cross did not end the Mosaic Covenant, but instead renewed it, expanded its message, and wrote it on the hearts of His true followers. They teach that the understanding of the New Testament can only come from a Hebrew perspective and that the teachings of the Apostle Paul are not understood clearly or taught correctly by Christian pastors today. Many affirm the existence of an original Hebrew-language New Testament and, in some cases, denigrate the existing New Testament text written in Greek. This becomes a subtle attack on the reliability of the text of our Bible. If the Greek text is unreliable and has been corrupted, as is charged by some, the Church no longer has a standard of truth.
Although there are many different and diverse Hebrew Roots assemblies with variations in their teachings, they all adhere to a common emphasis on recovering the "original" Jewishness of Christianity. Their assumption is that the Church has lost its Jewish roots and is unaware that Jesus and His disciples were Jews living in obedience to the Torah. For the most part, those involved advocate the need for every believer to walk a Torah-observant life. This means that the ordinances of the Mosaic Covenant must be a central focus in the lifestyle of believers today as it was with the Old Testament Jews of Israel. Keeping the Torah includes keeping the Sabbath on the seventh day of the week (Saturday), celebrating the Jewish feasts and festivals, keeping the dietary laws, avoiding the "paganism" of Christianity (Christmas, Easter, etc.), and learning to understand the Scriptures from a Hebrew mindset. They teach that Gentile Christians have been grafted into Israel, and this is one reason every born-again believer in Jesus the Messiah is to participate in these observances. It is expressed that doing this is not required out of legalistic bondage, but out of a heart of love and obedience. However, they teach that to live a life that pleases God, this Torah-observant walk must be part of that life.
The Hebrew Roots assemblies are often made up of a majority of Gentiles, including Gentile rabbis. Usually they prefer to be identified as "Messianic Christians." Many have come to the conclusion that God has "called" them to be Jewish and have accepted the theological position that the Torah (Old Testament law) is equally binding on Gentiles and Jews alike. They often wear articles of traditional Jewish clothing, practice Davidic dancing, and incorporate Hebrew names and phrases into their writing and conversations. Most reject the use of the name "Jesus" in favor of Yeshua or YHWH, claiming that these are the "true" names that God desires for Himself. In most cases, they elevate the Torah as the foundational teaching for the Church, which brings about the demotion of the New Testament, causing it to become secondary in importance and only to be understood in light of the Old Testament. The idea that the New Testament is faulty and relevant only in light of the Old Testament has also brought the doctrine of the Trinity under attack by many advocates of the Hebrew Roots beliefs.
As opposed to what the Hebrew Roots movement claims, the New Testament teachings of the Apostle Paul are perfectly clear and self-explanatory.Colossians 2:16,17says, "Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day – things which are a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ."Romans 14:5states, "One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind." Scripture clearly indicates that these issues are a matter of personal choice. These verses and many others give clear evidence that the Mosaic Covenant laws and ordinances have ended. Continuing to teach that the Old Covenant is still in effect in spite of what the New Testament teaches, or twisting the New Testament to agree with the Hebrew Roots beliefs, is false teaching.
There are aspects of the Hebrew Roots teachings that certainly can be beneficial. Seeking to explore the Jewish culture and perspective, within which most of the Bible was written, opens and enriches our understanding of the Scriptures, adding insight and depth to many of the passages, parables and idioms. There is nothing wrong with Gentiles and Jews joining together in celebrating the feasts and enjoying a Messianic style of worship. Taking part in these events and learning the way in which the Jews understood the teachings of our Lord can be a tool, giving us greater effectiveness in reaching the unbelieving Jew with the gospel. It is good for Gentiles, in the body of the Messiah, to identify in our fellowship with Israel. However, to identify with Israel is different from identifying "as" Israel.
Gentile believers are not grafted into the Judaism of the Mosaic Covenant; they are grafted into the seed and faith of Abraham, which preceded the Law and Jewish customs. They are fellow citizens with the saints (Ephesians 2:19), but they are not Jews. Paul explains this clearly when he tells those who were circumcised (the Jews) "not to seek to be uncircumcised" and those who were uncircumcised (the Gentiles) "not to become circumcised" (1 Corinthians 7:18). There is no need for either group to feel they must become what they are not. Instead, God has made Jews and Gentiles into "one new man" in Christ Jesus (Ephesians 2:15). This "new man" is referring to the Church, the body of Christ, which is made up of neither Jew nor Gentile (Galatians 3:27-29). It's important for Jews and Gentiles to remain authentic in their own identity. In this way a clear picture of the unity of the body of Christ can be seen as Jews and Gentiles are united by one Lord, one faith, one baptism. If Gentiles are grafted into Israel, becoming Jews, the purpose and picture of both Jew and Gentile, coming together as one new man, is lost. God never intended Gentiles to become one in Israel, but one in Christ.
The influence of this movement is working its way into our churches and seminaries. It's dangerous in its implication that keeping the Old Covenant law is walking a "higher path" and is the only way to please God and receive His blessings. Nowhere in the Bible do we find Gentile believers being instructed to follow Levitical laws or Jewish customs; in fact, the opposite is taught.Romans 7:6says, "But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code." Christ, in keeping perfectly every ordinance of the Mosaic Law, completely fulfilled it. Just as making the final payment on a home fulfills that contract and ends one’s obligation to it, so also Christ has made the final payment and has fulfilled the law, bringing it to an end for us all.
It is God Himself who has created a world of people with different cultures, languages and traditions. God is glorified when we accept one another in love and come together in unity as "one" in Christ Jesus. It's important to understand that there is no superiority in being born Jewish or Gentile. We who are followers of Christ, comprised of many different cultures and lifestyles, are all of value and greatly loved because we've entered into the family of God.
Read more:What is the Hebrew Roots movement?
So do you deny the atonement of Christ?
"The Hebrew Roots Movement is a heretical cult that has many factions. Therefore, it is difficult to explain all of their doctrines. The crux of their heresy is that they deny the atonement of Christ by denying that He fulfilled the Mosaic Law. They further deny the work of the Holy Spirit by rejecting the “Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus” (The indwelling of the Holy Spirit) that sets us free from the law of sin and death (the Mosaic Law) (Romans 8: 1-4)"
The Hebrew Roots Movement | TruthKeepers
Question: "What is the Hebrew Roots movement?"
Answer:The premise of the Hebrew Roots movement is the belief that the Church has veered far from the true teachings and Hebrew concepts of the Bible. The movement maintains that Christianity has been indoctrinated with the culture and beliefs of Greek and Roman philosophy and that ultimately biblical Christianity, taught in churches today, has been corrupted with a pagan imitation of the New Testament gospels.
Those of the Hebrew Roots belief hold to the teaching that Christ's death on the cross did not end the Mosaic Covenant, but instead renewed it, expanded its message, and wrote it on the hearts of His true followers. They teach that the understanding of the New Testament can only come from a Hebrew perspective and that the teachings of the Apostle Paul are not understood clearly or taught correctly by Christian pastors today. Many affirm the existence of an original Hebrew-language New Testament and, in some cases, denigrate the existing New Testament text written in Greek. This becomes a subtle attack on the reliability of the text of our Bible. If the Greek text is unreliable and has been corrupted, as is charged by some, the Church no longer has a standard of truth.
Although there are many different and diverse Hebrew Roots assemblies with variations in their teachings, they all adhere to a common emphasis on recovering the "original" Jewishness of Christianity. Their assumption is that the Church has lost its Jewish roots and is unaware that Jesus and His disciples were Jews living in obedience to the Torah. For the most part, those involved advocate the need for every believer to walk a Torah-observant life. This means that the ordinances of the Mosaic Covenant must be a central focus in the lifestyle of believers today as it was with the Old Testament Jews of Israel. Keeping the Torah includes keeping the Sabbath on the seventh day of the week (Saturday), celebrating the Jewish feasts and festivals, keeping the dietary laws, avoiding the "paganism" of Christianity (Christmas, Easter, etc.), and learning to understand the Scriptures from a Hebrew mindset. They teach that Gentile Christians have been grafted into Israel, and this is one reason every born-again believer in Jesus the Messiah is to participate in these observances. It is expressed that doing this is not required out of legalistic bondage, but out of a heart of love and obedience. However, they teach that to live a life that pleases God, this Torah-observant walk must be part of that life.
The Hebrew Roots assemblies are often made up of a majority of Gentiles, including Gentile rabbis. Usually they prefer to be identified as "Messianic Christians." Many have come to the conclusion that God has "called" them to be Jewish and have accepted the theological position that the Torah (Old Testament law) is equally binding on Gentiles and Jews alike. They often wear articles of traditional Jewish clothing, practice Davidic dancing, and incorporate Hebrew names and phrases into their writing and conversations. Most reject the use of the name "Jesus" in favor of Yeshua or YHWH, claiming that these are the "true" names that God desires for Himself. In most cases, they elevate the Torah as the foundational teaching for the Church, which brings about the demotion of the New Testament, causing it to become secondary in importance and only to be understood in light of the Old Testament. The idea that the New Testament is faulty and relevant only in light of the Old Testament has also brought the doctrine of the Trinity under attack by many advocates of the Hebrew Roots beliefs.
As opposed to what the Hebrew Roots movement claims, the New Testament teachings of the Apostle Paul are perfectly clear and self-explanatory.Colossians 2:16,17says, "Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day – things which are a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ."Romans 14:5states, "One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind." Scripture clearly indicates that these issues are a matter of personal choice. These verses and many others give clear evidence that the Mosaic Covenant laws and ordinances have ended. Continuing to teach that the Old Covenant is still in effect in spite of what the New Testament teaches, or twisting the New Testament to agree with the Hebrew Roots beliefs, is false teaching.
There are aspects of the Hebrew Roots teachings that certainly can be beneficial. Seeking to explore the Jewish culture and perspective, within which most of the Bible was written, opens and enriches our understanding of the Scriptures, adding insight and depth to many of the passages, parables and idioms. There is nothing wrong with Gentiles and Jews joining together in celebrating the feasts and enjoying a Messianic style of worship. Taking part in these events and learning the way in which the Jews understood the teachings of our Lord can be a tool, giving us greater effectiveness in reaching the unbelieving Jew with the gospel. It is good for Gentiles, in the body of the Messiah, to identify in our fellowship with Israel. However, to identify with Israel is different from identifying "as" Israel.
Gentile believers are not grafted into the Judaism of the Mosaic Covenant; they are grafted into the seed and faith of Abraham, which preceded the Law and Jewish customs. They are fellow citizens with the saints (Ephesians 2:19), but they are not Jews. Paul explains this clearly when he tells those who were circumcised (the Jews) "not to seek to be uncircumcised" and those who were uncircumcised (the Gentiles) "not to become circumcised" (1 Corinthians 7:18). There is no need for either group to feel they must become what they are not. Instead, God has made Jews and Gentiles into "one new man" in Christ Jesus (Ephesians 2:15). This "new man" is referring to the Church, the body of Christ, which is made up of neither Jew nor Gentile (Galatians 3:27-29). It's important for Jews and Gentiles to remain authentic in their own identity. In this way a clear picture of the unity of the body of Christ can be seen as Jews and Gentiles are united by one Lord, one faith, one baptism. If Gentiles are grafted into Israel, becoming Jews, the purpose and picture of both Jew and Gentile, coming together as one new man, is lost. God never intended Gentiles to become one in Israel, but one in Christ.
The influence of this movement is working its way into our churches and seminaries. It's dangerous in its implication that keeping the Old Covenant law is walking a "higher path" and is the only way to please God and receive His blessings. Nowhere in the Bible do we find Gentile believers being instructed to follow Levitical laws or Jewish customs; in fact, the opposite is taught.Romans 7:6says, "But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code." Christ, in keeping perfectly every ordinance of the Mosaic Law, completely fulfilled it. Just as making the final payment on a home fulfills that contract and ends one’s obligation to it, so also Christ has made the final payment and has fulfilled the law, bringing it to an end for us all.
It is God Himself who has created a world of people with different cultures, languages and traditions. God is glorified when we accept one another in love and come together in unity as "one" in Christ Jesus. It's important to understand that there is no superiority in being born Jewish or Gentile. We who are followers of Christ, comprised of many different cultures and lifestyles, are all of value and greatly loved because we've entered into the family of God.
Read more:What is the Hebrew Roots movement?
K
kennethcadwell
Guest
When you are transformed into your spiritual body by keeping your faith and obedience to the Lord, His blood washes you white forever. The precept of this scripture shows exactly what Jesus said, Peter said, and Paul said about enduring and staying firm in the Lord to be saved. They can not each teach different gospels.
If Jesus says like He did in chapter 10, you must endure to the end to be saved. Then Paul, Peter, James, and John can not teach different. If you think they do then it is a misunderstanding on the reading. Even Paul points out that he can not preach differently then what Jesus already taught, and Peter points out how hard Paul is to understand in his writings some times and says that they do not preach differently then Jesus.
The writer for Hebrews was thought to be Paul for the longest time because they use a similar writing style as Paul. Now they believe it to be more of one who was an understudy of Paul. He does the same thing Paul did, he talks about the subject of salvation first, then he brings up how to receive it and the warnings on what to abstain from.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
That is not what the passage says, because by what you just stated, the perfection can be lost. thus it is NOT FOREVER.
It says he has perfected (a completed act, in fact the greek word means completed, it is in the perfect active tense, which means it is completed. finished, nothing else needs to be done) forever (the length of what he has done, never ending) those who are being (present tense) sanctified.
I am not being rude Kenneth, but I think you need to go back to language class. Your destroying the laws of language to make your belief system fit the word. and not using the word to fit your belief system)
K
kennethcadwell
Guest
I am not going to get into this with you any more because you refuse to even look into and read the scriptures given to you, that are directly from the bible and then you get on others about posting scripture as I have seen.
How many times do we have to post multiple scriptures that say you have to remain steadfast, continue to walk in righteousness, not fall away to false teachings, trials, tribulations, and obey His commandments to have salvation before you look into for yourself ?
( There are many that state this. )
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
there is no need. if you can not read language and want to interpret a sentence AGAINST the rules of language, there is no helping you.
I have looked at them, I have read them, They can not contradict what is said in other parts of scripture.
God can not say he has perfected you forever in one sentence, and in another, that perfection can be lost (which is what you are saying)
Either God meant what he said, or he is a liar.
It is no different than the preterist saying Gods eternal unconditional promise to Isreal is null and void, and not eternal. because they sinned against God thus did not earn it.
Even the passage we are reading.
The author says the sacrifice of the priest could not perfect forever, because the blood of bulls and goats could never remove sin, This they had to sacrifice continually to remove sin (because we could nto stop sinning)
Yet you want to replace the one sacrifice which perfected forever those who are saved, with acts of penance and works, and other things.
You claim you are different than Jews following law. yet you are no different.
You have different works. But you have the same sacrifices one must do to be saved. Only your sacrifice is follwoing a set of rules you CANNOT FOLLOW PERFECTLY, and committing acts of penance when you do fail. and that act of penance makes you clean
Your still following the catholic gospel. and you can not even see it.
K
Karraster
Guest
Good question Chopper. Perhaps a shadow? A shadow of good things to come...like the wedding feast! We know Messiah came during the spring feasts fulfilling them perfectly. One day, and what a great and terrible day that will be, (great for some, terrible for others) He will shake Heaven and Earth, He will return..and not as a 6 lb baby in a manger. He will return as the conquering King, every knee will bow, every mouth confess Him as Lord. (Lord meaning the one you obey) Then there will be no doubt that His Words stand forever.
Some are rehearsing what is promised to come (Feasts of YaH), and some are rehearsing for something they do not know what it is.. (man made Babylon concoctions)
Very good summation.
I tend to look at it like this, His Appointed Times are to draw us closer to Him.
Man's appointed times are to draw us away from Him.
Christmas is not worshiping God through pagan means. Again with the thousands of gods and thousands of years, there are going to be countless types of rituals and practices, so its not going to be difficut to dig something up which looks the same.
Did you know that there are Egyptian rituals which mimic communion, but we do not say taking communion is wrong!
K