Question about Communion

[posthuman]

Evidently they had good discernment of having such a great sinner in their midst. I'm surprised you got a wafer.
I was raised Catholic and when I was young we were only offered bread. Over time wine was offered. How long ago was it? If it was after Covid I think that might be the answer.

It was just this year, so, not a health precaution, but perhaps more prevalent these days in Europe because they overall were less obstinate about taking precautions than Americans - it may simply be carried over from a few years ago.



I did some digging, and what I found is that it has to do with a combination of logistics, a keen observation of the text in 1 Cor. 11, and the RCC belief in transubstantiation.

Because masses often involve a very large number of congregants, it is very likely some of the wine may be spilled. The (unleavened) bread is much easier to manage.

1 Corinthians 11:27​

Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks [this] cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.​

Because the scripture says "or" not 'and' it isn't necessary to have both the bread and the wine. Christ is God and God is One, to have any of Him is to have all of Him. either bread or wine is as sufficient as both.

Because they believe the bread and wine are literally transformed into the body and blood of Christ, to spill it is literally to spill God, where He may be trampled underfoot - a grievous sin, which they hold can only be forgiven by the pope, even if it is accidental.

Put these all together, and there is a basis to pass the cup among the priests administering the sacrament, for the sake of the liturgy, and the bread among all, for the sake of all. Not because the laity is less holy or the priests more special, but simply to avoid spilling the wine.


Make of it what you will lol but this is the reasoning. It was practiced this way for a thousand years in some places, it did not originate with Covid. It's common but not universal practice in RCC churches, up to the parish priest how he wants to handle it.

 

[Cameron143]

It was just this year, so, not a health precaution, but perhaps more prevalent these days in Europe because they overall were less obstinate about taking precautions than Americans - it may simply be carried over from a few years ago.



I did some digging, and what I found is that it has to do with a combination of logistics, a keen observation of the text in 1 Cor. 11, and the RCC belief in transubstantiation.

Because masses often involve a very large number of congregants, it is very likely some of the wine may be spilled. The (unleavened) bread is much easier to manage.

1 Corinthians 11:27​

Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks [this] cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.​

Because the scripture says "or" not 'and' it isn't necessary to have both the bread and the wine. Christ is God and God is One, to have any of Him is to have all of Him. either bread or wine is as sufficient as both.

Because they believe the bread and wine are literally transformed into the body and blood of Christ, to spill it is literally to spill God, where He may be trampled underfoot - a grievous sin, which they hold can only be forgiven by the pope, even if it is accidental.

Put these all together, and there is a basis to pass the cup among the priests administering the sacrament, for the sake of the liturgy, and the bread among all, for the sake of all. Not because the laity is less holy or the priests more special, but simply to avoid spilling the wine.


Make of it what you will lol but this is the reasoning. It was practiced this way for a thousand years in some places, it did not originate with Covid. It's common but not universal practice in RCC churches, up to the parish priest how he wants to handle it.

Guess that is what happens when men are in charge. It may well be grace as at least some don't drink damnation to themselves.

 

[FlyingDove]

Do you have any Scripture to back this up? Oats, spelt and rye are not mentioned in the Bible, just wheat and barley. And it does not matter how many hundreds of species of yeast there are.

There are many scriptures on unleavened bread that I'll be happy to share. Providing you cite the scriptures that support your """unfermented grape juice""" claim. Which was the point of my post to you.
At the 1st recorded communion Abraham brought bread & WINE. Not bread & unfermented grape juice!
Every Passover then & now. Jews drink WINE!

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I have not read all the responses so if this has been said already forgive me.

Sadly many have turned this command of God into a religious ceremony and and much as made it a pagan ritual.

Communion replaced the passover meal.

the passover was to Help Israel remember when they were freed from Egypt

Communion helps us to remember when we were freed from our own slaver, to the world.

it has no special powers but to bring to us remembrance of where we came from. so we do not forget..

 

[Magenta]

Why did you ignore what I posted if you like the truth?

By the way, I am still awaiting that apology from you. Or are you the hypocrite I believe you to be, expecting acknowledgements of wrongdoing, admissions of error, gratitude for correction, and apologies from others when they are corrected by you but refusing to extend that which you desire from others to them when appropriate? Because in my many years here, I have corrected you more times than I can count, and not once in any of those situations, some where you outright denied that Scripture said something it explicitly did like you did twice yesterday, or blatantly falsely accused me of something I did not do or say, did you ever acknowledge you were wrong, express gratitude for correction, withdraw your false accusation or tender an apology. Nothing even close. You just run away as if nothing happened, just like now.

Does anyone know of.... - Christian Chat Rooms & Forums

 

[Beckworth]

Dear Beloved Brothers and Sisters in Christ,

Does communion have special powers? Or can it? Is it supposed to, even sometimes? I have heard a preacher say that it does, and I have heard testimonies of healing and deliverance from people who have taken it, even if multiple times.

Personally, I believe that communion empowers and encourages us spiritually, at least sometimes, because I have experienced such. A quick Google search says that it can and does, but I do not want to fall into spiritual superstition.

I thank you in advance for your input.

Blessings, even material, in Christ unto You All,
Brother Brian

There is nothing in the New Testament that suggests any special powers, or miraculous healing in observing communion. As with any command or act of worship that God has given, it surely has “spiritual” benefits. It is after Al a representation of HIS body and blood. We are partaking SPIRITUALLY of HIM when we eat it. It is a MEMORIAL to His death. We are to REMEMBER His suffering and His death as we eat it. Matthew 26 and 1 Cor. 11. He should be close to us as we celebrate His precious gift to us. It is a “COMMUNION” between each one of us and Him.
We need to be careful not to fall into the same trap that the Old Testament Jews did so many times, in taking some religious act and turning it into something “idolatrous” or mis-using it. For example, the brass serpent that was used as a symbol to save people from snake bite, ( it was a “shadow” of Christ’s death), was later worshipped as an idol. Some of the “sacred stones” set up as memorials during Joshua’s day were later used to worship false gods.
I’m not saying anyone is using the Lord’s supper for idolatry—only that we must be careful not to use it for something which it was never intended.
Moses told the Jews over and over in Deuteronomy, be careful, be careful, be careful… 17 times… when admonishing them to keep his laws.

 

[Beckworth]

I have not read all the responses so if this has been said already forgive me.

Sadly many have turned this command of God into a religious ceremony and and much as made it a pagan ritual.

Communion replaced the passover meal.

the passover was to Help Israel remember when they were freed from Egypt

Communion helps us to remember when we were freed from our own slaver, to the world.

it has no special powers but to bring to us remembrance of where we came from. so we do not forget..

I think you need to read Matthew 26 where Jesus instituted the Lord’s supper and 1 Corinthians 11 where the Christians were observing it. You have it mixed up with the Passover which was a Jewish practice. The Passover was fir the Hews to remember their deliverance from Egypt. The supper that Jesus instituted was not the Passover. It was done on the day of the Passover but it was not a memorial to the Exodus from Egypt. It
Was specifically for the followers of Christ—Christians— both Jews and gentiles, and it was a new memorial given to those who are believers to remember his suffering and death on the cross. Jesus said the bread represents His body that was broken for us, and the grape juice represents His blood that was shed on the cross for us. It has NOTHING TO DO WITH EGYPT OR THE EXODUS. He says we are to REMEMBER HIM when we take it—not slavery in Egypt. “Do this in remembrance of me.” It is a memorial to Christ and His sacrifice.
You are correct that it has no special powers. We get spiritual benefits when we observe it as Jesus commanded.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I think you need to read Matthew 26 where Jesus instituted the Lord’s supper and 1 Corinthians 11 where the Christians were observing it. You have it mixed up with the Passover which was a Jewish practice. The Passover was fir the Hews to remember their deliverance from Egypt. The supper that Jesus instituted was not the Passover. It was done on the day of the Passover but it was not a memorial to the Exodus from Egypt. It
Was specifically for the followers of Christ—Christians— both Jews and gentiles, and it was a new memorial given to those who are believers to remember his suffering and death on the cross. Jesus said the bread represents His body that was broken for us, and the grape juice represents His blood that was shed on the cross for us. It has NOTHING TO DO WITH EGYPT OR THE EXODUS. He says we are to REMEMBER HIM when we take it—not slavery in Egypt. “Do this in remembrance of me.” It is a memorial to Christ and His sacrifice.
You are correct that it has no special powers. We get spiritual benefits when we observe it as Jesus commanded.

I think you need to read John 6 and what Jesus said about what would be given to everyone who would eat this bread and flesh and blood he spoke of.

then compair it with 1 Cor 11 and Matt 26, them realise that there are two different things spoken of here

then realise, In john 6, Jesus said whoever ate it would never hunger never thirst, live forever, never die, has eternal life, etc etc. Also he called it the food which endured forever, which means unlike manna’s, you eat it once, and it will keep you alive forever. Because it never fades away.

as apposed to the lrods supper. Where you do often in remembrance of him, and nothing that Jesus promised in John 6 is given to anyone who eats the lords supper.

the problem is people want to relate the flesh and blood of the lords tabe to the flesh and blood of John 6, when they are not the same