Question for OSAS believers...

[kennethcadwell]

I would suggest then instead of saying OSAS is not true to doing exactly what I have shown here. That OSAS is 100% true but only in context of what Scripture says. Those who do have the true saving faith in Christ can be assured of their salvation and those who "play the game" or "live the role" must truly look into themselves and ask Christ for that true faith in Him.

We must let people know that true saving faith can only come through complete surrender to Christ in every aspect of our lives. We must let them know that they cannot say I believe in Christ and refuse to give up their sinful ways. True saving faith comes from accepting Christ and allowing the Holy Spirit to have complete control of our lives.

Well its getting late here so I am getting off and going to bed, but I wanted to leave with this.

A believer can never completely put off sins and be sin free !!!
How many times have you heard this flawed thinking from a believer?


What does the bible say to answer this question ?

Does these two scripture say all things or just some things ?

Matthew 19:26
But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

 

[BenFTW]

This does apply to the OSAS debate, because those who believe this no matter what they do they can not lose salvation. However I have seen some who believe in this, but then have an unforgiving heart toward others. And when told about that they have said I don't have to forgive them. However the Lord said if you do not forgive others, He will not forgive you. And the last time I checked having your sins forgiven and covered is a prerequisite for salvation, or your still enmity to God. Paul confirms what He said to;


Matthew 6:14-15
“For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.


Ephesians 4:32
And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

I do not see how you missed the apparent contradiction here between the two verses you posted. They do not say the same thing.

Matthew 6:14-15 says that if you forgive other's, the Lord will forgive you, but if you do not forgive others then God won't either. While Ephesians 4:32 says to forgive one another because God has [already] forgiven you. God first forgave you, and as such you should forgive others. This is old and new testament made clear. This is law and grace.

It is Law because we must do something in order to receive something, blessings for obedience and curses for disobedience. If you don't forgive, then God won't forgive you... if you don't listen and obey to the command of forgiving, God won't forgive (the blessing) you. So disobey, (do not forgive) and God won't forgive (curse, won't forgive) you. Where as in Ephesians 4:32 we clearly see grace, in that we forgive others because God has forgiven us (past tense). Whether we forgive or not, God has already forgiven us.

So while it is beneficial to forgive others and we ought to do so, to not forgive does not lead to condemnation. To say so(that we are condemned if we don't forgive), is mixing law with grace and completely nullifying grace.

 

[fredjames]

Well its getting late here so I am getting off and going to bed, but I wanted to leave with this.

A believer can never completely put off sins and be sin free !!!
How many times have you heard this flawed thinking from a believer?


What does the bible say to answer this question ?

Does these two scripture say all things or just some things ?

Matthew 19:26
But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

If you do not practice 'at all' the teachings of the New Covenant of CHRIST as the church witnessing to the world and remain only as hearers and bystanders, enjoying the show from afar, how can one ever grow 'at all' to become obedient and perfect in their spiritual life, and so that in progress of growth, one is able to put away carnality/flesh day by day.?

Does the New Testament teach that the HOLY SPIRIT will do everything inside a believer?

And suddenly they will be magically change one day and be fit for Heaven.

To tell you the truth in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST, and as still a friend, you OSAS believers are living in deception and 'accumulating troubles for yourselves on judgement day'.

GOD has raised through CHRIST the standards high, so that; 'your righteousness must exceed the Pharisees'.

With all due respect to you, quoting two Scripture, does they sum up all the teaching of the New Covenant.

It's best that, one who believe in this short and two Scripture quote, of a wise and prudents's testimony, better as well should have remained a Catholic instead. Imperfection is legalized to their citizens, but perfection is so called practiced by their government and leaders and officials, and the 'vicar of christ' is their deciding 'head' overall for everything. This is not a so called intended 'bashing' of a denomination, but a reminder and a stir up of memory of a revealed truth of deceived deception, that even the 'Reformers' with all due respect to them in their presence on trial, did not 'recant' at all to them, even to the point of death.

If you are truly a born again, the 'Reformers' did not translate only two Scripture quote, for our sound doctrine knowledge of GOD's Salvation information justification, but an entire Holy Bible.

May GOD the FATHER of our LORD JESUS CHRIST, forgive you and bless you.

What a disgrace to the 'reformers', ones who gave their lives by translating the Holy Bible in other languages as well, for the sake of the 'ordinary people' worldwide, who were being neglected of their True Heavenly Spiritual 'Manna' of GOD their FATHER through CHRIST and the HOLY SPIRIT.

Does this also not grief the HOLY SPIRIT, who have inspired 'all these written Scripture' and not 'two', that 'are useful for teaching, rebuking error, correcting fault, training one in righteousness, so that a man of GOD is fully equipped and fully trained to do all kind of good deeds'.

As it is written;

" Do not put the LORD thy GOD to the test."

 

[abno5]

"become obedient and perfect in their spiritual life"


That is a great message but people need to hear the meat and potatoes of its influence on them. Don't water it down, show us!

 

[newbirth]

I do not see how you missed the apparent contradiction here between the two verses you posted. They do not say the same thing.

Matthew 6:14-15 says that if you forgive other's, the Lord will forgive you, but if you do not forgive others then God won't either. While Ephesians 4:32 says to forgive one another because God has [already] forgiven you. God first forgave you, and as such you should forgive others. This is old and new testament made clear. This is law and grace.

It is Law because we must do something in order to receive something, blessings for obedience and curses for disobedience. If you don't forgive, then God won't forgive you... if you don't listen and obey to the command of forgiving, God won't forgive (the blessing) you. So disobey, (do not forgive) and God won't forgive (curse, won't forgive) you. Where as in Ephesians 4:32 we clearly see grace, in that we forgive others because God has forgiven us (past tense). Whether we forgive or not, God has already forgiven us.

So while it is beneficial to forgive others and we ought to do so, to not forgive does not lead to condemnation. To say so(that we are condemned if we don't forgive), is mixing law with grace and completely nullifying grace.

and you take this to mean if you sin tomorrow God has already forgiven you???how can one say he is in Christ with an unforgiving heart
Hebrews 10:26
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
1 John 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

1 John 1:8-10King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

 

[Elin]

Im just laughing so hard! ROFL!!

The one that kills me is his #8 on page 1.

I'm still laughing about that.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Would you agree that if a Christian attempted to leave God as Jonah did, saying, "Good riddin's!" and never attempted to come back, but lived the rest of their life doing whatever evil came to their mind, that they would still be saved? And I'm not talking about if someone must not have been saved in the first place, but those that you agree we're actually saved. If, if, if this WERE the case, would they still be saved?

1. Can they do this? Jonah was chastened by God, did he not return because he could not witshtand the chastening of God? who can withstand it.
2. what if a Christian takes his eyes off of God for whatever reason, and starts to drink in depression (caused by the chastening of God) and ends up getting killed because of a DWI crash. Is that person lost forever? He lost faith, did God stop being faithfull??

 

[mailmandan]

You keep wanting to deny the words; fall away, forsaken, gone astray, did not continue, and so on......A person can not do any of those things unless they were a part of what they left to begin with

There are those who may have been associated with what they left, but were not truly a part of what they left (1 John 2:19). Also, in John 8:31, Jesus said - IF you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine. Those who set out to be followers of Christ, but do not continue in His word are not truly His disciples (John 6:64-71).

and if you go and look at Galatians as I gave before. Peter and the others taught the Galatians how to properly be in the faith, and then false teachers crept in and lead them astray to trying to be justified by the law. Paul calls our Peter for letting this happen, and then tells the Galatians because they have turned from Christ back to justification by the law. Christ has become of no effect to them, and they have fallen from His saving grace !!!

The present tense of the word "justified" implies that these Galatians were contemplating justification by the law. "You who are trying to be justified by the law have fallen away from grace," but had they fully come to that place yet? They were obviously getting side tracked by legalistic teachers. Galatians 3:3 reads: Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? The middle voice implies "making yourselves perfect" by means of self effort. The present tense indicates that the action is in progress and that there is still time to correct the error. Peter was not straightforward about the truth of the gospel in Galatians 2:11-15, yet obviously the error was fixed. Peter is in Heaven and did not lose his salvation. If these Galatians lost their salvation and it was a done deal, then why didn't Paul simply say you "lost your salvation" and I'm done with you? Instead, in verse 10, he said - I have confidence in you, in the Lord, that you will have no other mind; but he who troubles you shall bear his judgment, whoever he is. Why would Paul have confidence in these Galatians if they lost their salvation and it's all over for them? In verse 12, Paul uses hyperbole - As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!

 

[fredjames]

"become obedient and perfect in their spiritual life"


That is a great message but people need to hear the meat and potatoes of its influence on them. Don't water it down, show us!

What was JESUS Teaching from 'THE SERMON ON THE MOUNT' and in the four Gospel and to who HE was imparting them?

Have you practiced or practicing these that HE taught, in your own personal life, as a 'hearer' and 'doer' of HIS Word?

And also HIS instructions guidance epistles of the Apostles, for the churches to practice and practicing Kingdom 'order', for churches together in orderly 'unity', as 'one' Body of CHRIST and may consist of many branches, all under 'one rule of GOD made New Covenant with all Christians around the world.

This is the only way, truth and life, one can lay their foundation of faith on the 'rock' and to 'stand' the test of time, even a great one to come our way, assuredly said by JESUS.

Please put your infants joke away that are in ignorance watered down faith in carnal/flesh manifestation reply and start growing up in the mentioned above called 'practices' given to HIS disciples and written and taught by the HOLY SPIRIT, for our witnessing, and for our 'spiritual obedience and perfection'.

As i witness faith, it seems to be many of us have gone ahead from JESUS's Teachings written in the New Covenant and only grown in the gift of the HOLY SPIRIT in the church. In obedience and in developing perfection through HIS given teachings of the New Covenant and in practices, we remain partially in carnal/flesh and it is in conflict with the HOLY SPIRIT.

Do we recognize our 'lawlessness' in neglecting HIS Word that we are called to 'abide'?

JESUS said to HIS disciples that they must 'abide' in HIS 'words' and in HIS 'love' for one another and bear fruits, For without HIM they can do nothing. Further on HE said to them, that their fruits must 'abide'.

And their fruits are the 'churches', even the ones until today.

Be blessed, 'to go boldly to the Throne of Grace, where you can find help in your weaknesses' in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST.

 

[kennethcadwell]

I do not see how you missed the apparent contradiction here between the two verses you posted. They do not say the same thing.

Matthew 6:14-15 says that if you forgive other's, the Lord will forgive you, but if you do not forgive others then God won't either. While Ephesians 4:32 says to forgive one another because God has [already] forgiven you. God first forgave you, and as such you should forgive others. This is old and new testament made clear. This is law and grace.

It is Law because we must do something in order to receive something, blessings for obedience and curses for disobedience. If you don't forgive, then God won't forgive you... if you don't listen and obey to the command of forgiving, God won't forgive (the blessing) you. So disobey, (do not forgive) and God won't forgive (curse, won't forgive) you. Where as in Ephesians 4:32 we clearly see grace, in that we forgive others because God has forgiven us (past tense). Whether we forgive or not, God has already forgiven us.

So while it is beneficial to forgive others and we ought to do so, to not forgive does not lead to condemnation. To say so(that we are condemned if we don't forgive), is mixing law with grace and completely nullifying grace.

And that their is why some of you are confused and misunderstand Paul's teaching.
Paul did not teach differently then the Lord, and what the Lord said still applies to us today. If you have an unforgiving heart toward others you will not be forgiven of your sins. Paul did not change by showing grace, because were all under grace even those who listened to Jesus directly. What applied to them applies to us, to say any different is to preach another gospel. This is were the main problem lies, in a teaching that Paul changed what the Lord said.

 

[notuptome]

Me thinks it will take all of eternity for some to decide this issue.

Each one knows what they have received from the Lord.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[kennethcadwell]

There are those who may have been associated with what they left, but were not truly a part of what they left (1 John 2:19). Also, in John 8:31, Jesus said - IF you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine. Those who set out to be followers of Christ, but do not continue in His word are not truly His disciples (John 6:64-71).

The present tense of the word "justified" implies that these Galatians were contemplating justification by the law. "You who are trying to be justified by the law have fallen away from grace," but had they fully come to that place yet? They were obviously getting side tracked by legalistic teachers. Galatians 3:3 reads: Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? The middle voice implies "making yourselves perfect" by means of self effort. The present tense indicates that the action is in progress and that there is still time to correct the error. Peter was not straightforward about the truth of the gospel in Galatians 2:11-15, yet obviously the error was fixed. Peter is in Heaven and did not lose his salvation. If these Galatians lost their salvation and it was a done deal, then why didn't Paul simply say you "lost your salvation" and I'm done with you? Instead, in verse 10, he said - I have confidence in you, in the Lord, that you will have no other mind; but he who troubles you shall bear his judgment, whoever he is. Why would Paul have confidence in these Galatians if they lost their salvation and it's all over for them? In verse 12, Paul uses hyperbole - As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!

People word things in different way, and especially the area you come from depends on how you say things.
You can take the epistles for example Paul words things in a different way then the Lord, yet but does not change the meaning of what was said. Peter and James epistles both show this as they told people how Paul's writings were hard to understand, and James who taught exactly like Jesus did but in a very convicting way.
Being a born again Christian is not all sunshine and rainbows, it is a hard trying role. This is why the Lord said if you continue to endure to the end you will be saved, because even He knew some will fall away from Him and not end up with salvation. And it is never a done deal if somebody lost eternal life, as when still in the flesh a person always has a chance to come back in repentance. But if they never repent, then no salvation.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And that their is why some of you are confused and misunderstand Paul's teaching.
Paul did not teach differently then the Lord, and what the Lord said still applies to us today. If you have an unforgiving heart toward others you will not be forgiven of your sins. Paul did not change by showing grace, because were all under grace even those who listened to Jesus directly. What applied to them applies to us, to say any different is to preach another gospel. This is were the main problem lies, in a teaching that Paul changed what the Lord said.

how can one who has been forgiven by God have an unforgiving heart?

I have yet to meet one. if they have an unforgivingn heart. Are they of God. Have they ever seen God or known God?

people get confused because they want to add their own goodness and works to the gospel of grace. so they see words, and can not see what they mean, because they are blinded by their own carnality and self preservation, and lack of humility.

Only th ehumblle will be saved, the proud will be taken to their knees, crying out to God on that day, praising all their works.

Jesus will say depart. FOR HE NEVER KNEW THEM.

 

[Jackson123]

To my knowledge, OSAS is one of the reform doctrine/John Calvin.

Seem to me John Calvin believe that faith must prove by fruit. People that have time and not bear the fruit go to hell.

"Salvation (Justification/Reconciliation) is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone." I have rarely met any Protestant who does not, in some way, affirm that ... to append to "faith alone saves" the phrase "but faith that saves is never alone." (John
Calvin)

Never alone because faith is accompanied by it fruit.

 

[dalconn]

Let the wheat and the tares grow together, the Lord will sort em out

 

[Elin]

how can one who has been forgiven by God have an unforgiving heart?

I have yet to meet one. if they have an unforgivingn heart. Are they of God. Have they ever seen God or known God?

An unforgiving heart manifests one who has not received forgiveness; i.e., unsaved.

 

[notuptome]

People word things in different way, and especially the area you come from depends on how you say things.
You can take the epistles for example Paul words things in a different way then the Lord, yet but does not change the meaning of what was said. Peter and James epistles both show this as they told people how Paul's writings were hard to understand, and James who taught exactly like Jesus did but in a very convicting way.
Being a born again Christian is not all sunshine and rainbows, it is a hard trying role. This is why the Lord said if you continue to endure to the end you will be saved, because even He knew some will fall away from Him and not end up with salvation. And it is never a done deal if somebody lost eternal life, as when still in the flesh a person always has a chance to come back in repentance. But if they never repent, then no salvation.

Then you force a contradiction in Gods word. Jesus said His yoke was easy and His burden was light.

When Jesus told Israel that those who endured to the end would be saved He was speaking prophetically of the end of the age when Israel would see Him return. This is not speaking of individual Christians or others receiving salvation as a result of anything they did. Salvation is a gift of Gods grace to all who believe.

Being a Christian is only hard when you endeavor to do it apart from Christ. I have seen many good Christian people rejoice in great trials and tribulation. Joy and rejoicing that only a heart that loves the Lord can experience.

You speak of things you know nothing about.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[john832]

Then you force a contradiction in Gods word. Jesus said His yoke was easy and His burden was light.

When Jesus told Israel that those who endured to the end would be saved He was speaking prophetically of the end of the age when Israel would see Him return. This is not speaking of individual Christians or others receiving salvation as a result of anything they did. Salvation is a gift of Gods grace to all who believe.

Being a Christian is only hard when you endeavor to do it apart from Christ. I have seen many good Christian people rejoice in great trials and tribulation. Joy and rejoicing that only a heart that loves the Lord can experience.

You speak of things you know nothing about.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Act 14:19 And there came thither certain Jews from Antioch and Iconium, who persuaded the people, and, having stoned Paul, drew him out of the city, supposing he had been dead.
Act 14:20 Howbeit, as the disciples stood round about him, he rose up, and came into the city: and the next day he departed with Barnabas to Derbe.
Act 14:21 And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and to Iconium, and Antioch,
Act 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

 

[john832]

Then you force a contradiction in Gods word. Jesus said His yoke was easy and His burden was light.

When Jesus told Israel that those who endured to the end would be saved He was speaking prophetically of the end of the age when Israel would see Him return. This is not speaking of individual Christians or others receiving salvation as a result of anything they did. Salvation is a gift of Gods grace to all who believe.

Being a Christian is only hard when you endeavor to do it apart from Christ. I have seen many good Christian people rejoice in great trials and tribulation. Joy and rejoicing that only a heart that loves the Lord can experience.

You speak of things you know nothing about.
For the cause of Christ
Roger

Might as well add this...

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Perhaps the context of an easy yoke is worth studying into.

 

[Hizikyah]

Might as well add this...

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Perhaps the context of an easy yoke is worth studying into.

Yes...

The yoke of the world is,,,,,(sin/death) are taxing, uneven, painful, and depressing.

The yoke of Yah is (righteousness/life) are relaxing, even, healing, and joyful.