Question for OSAS believers...

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Act 14:19 And there came thither certain Jews from Antioch and Iconium, who persuaded the people, and, having stoned Paul, drew him out of the city, supposing he had been dead.
Act 14:20 Howbeit, as the disciples stood round about him, he rose up, and came into the city: and the next day he departed with Barnabas to Derbe.
Act 14:21 And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and to Iconium, and Antioch,
Act 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
James 1:2 Count it joy...The burden of earning salvation is too sever for any man to accomplish. If we are confident in our salvation then we count it all joy though they burn us at the stake for Christ's sake.

You are not lining up with what the verse is teaching. They persecuted our Christ shall they not do the same to us? Is Christ more than Victor over the grace and death? Are wen not accounted as sheep for the slaughter? The Lord says that the death of His saints in precious in His sight. Shall I go on?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Might as well add this...

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Perhaps the context of an easy yoke is worth studying into.
That would require correct soteriology.

There is also a way that seemeth right unto men but the end thereof is destruction.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
No, I wasn't.

So then the power of salvation laid in our hands, not God's. Right?

It was up to us to accept it. It was not up to Him to force it upon us. It was up to us to accept it.
 
No, I wasn't.

So then the power of salvation laid in our hands, not God's. Right?

It was up to us to accept it. It was not up to Him to force it upon us. It was up to us to accept it.
As a direct result of the fall we received the knowledge of good and evil. God has done all that He required to redeem man from mans sin. Mans free will and the onus of his knowledge of good and evil requires man to make a choice. God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

John 3:18 really touches on the matter. Men turn away from the light because they love the darkness.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
As a direct result of the fall we received the knowledge of good and evil. God has done all that He required to redeem man from mans sin. Mans free will and the onus of his knowledge of good and evil requires man to make a choice. God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

John 3:18 really touches on the matter. Men turn away from the light because they love the darkness.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Mans free will and the onus of his knowledge of good and evil requires man to make a choice.

I'll take that as a yes, the power over a man's salvation belongs to that man and not God in the form of man's free will and knowledge of good and evil.

So then man no longer has free will or the knowledge of good and evil once he accepts Christ?

Or, to say it another way, accepting Christ strips man of his free will and knowledge of good and evil?
 
Mans free will and the onus of his knowledge of good and evil requires man to make a choice.

I'll take that as a yes, the power over a man's salvation belongs to that man and not God in the form of man's free will and knowledge of good and evil.

So then man no longer has free will or the knowledge of good and evil once he accepts Christ?

Or, to say it another way, accepting Christ strips man of his free will and knowledge of good and evil?
Are you saved if you do not surrender your will, a will to sin, to Gods will?

John 3:18-20

It is mans free will that caused all the trouble to begin with. Adam ate by his free will. Lucifer fell from heaven because he desired to make his will above Gods will.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Are you saved if you do not surrender your will, a will to sin, to Gods will?

John 3:18-20

It is mans free will that caused all the trouble to begin with. Adam ate by his free will. Lucifer fell from heaven because he desired to make his will above Gods will.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

But where does God say "I take your free will and knowledge away"? He asks us to surrender it, for sure, but again, that surrender is under OUR power. And even once surrendered, do we not still have the power to "un-surrender" our will?
 
But where does God say "I take your free will and knowledge away"? He asks us to surrender it, for sure, but again, that surrender is under OUR power. And even once surrendered, do we not still have the power to "un-surrender" our will?
Jesus is our example of how to serve. Did Jesus do His will or the will of the Father? When Jesus prayed in the garden for the cup to pass did He not pray not My will but Thy will be done?

Do I have a will to sin? As long as I remain in this vile body of flesh you bet I do. My daily struggle is to surrender my will to His will and to allow His Holy Spirit to lead me in the paths of righteousness every day.

The flesh is always at enmity with the Spirit. Today I am saved form the penalty of sin. One day I shall be saved from the presence of sin.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
So, if it takes the power of human will to accept salvation, does the human will then not have the power to subsequently reject it?
 
What's the matter Roger, can't answer that one without blowing your theology?
 
So, if it takes the power of human will to accept salvation, does the human will then not have the power to subsequently reject it?
Man is never seen in a position of power either over sin or over grace. Man is seen as either a servant of sin or a servant of grace.

Who then is your master? You or Christ?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Ah, just like Fred Astaire. You dance a good dance around the answer. And I only bumped it up because I had a hankering to pull your chain.

Sorry.
 
Would you agree that if a Christian attempted to leave God as Jonah did, saying, "Good riddin's!" and never attempted to come back, but lived the rest of their life doing whatever evil came to their mind, that they would still be saved? And I'm not talking about if someone must not have been saved in the first place, but those that you agree we're actually saved. If, if, if this WERE the case, would they still be saved?
jonha was never at pentecost , again you speculation has no foundation in a new covenant. why you ask jonha ,what god planed for a new generation . death being conquered
 
So, if it takes the power of human will to accept salvation, does the human will then not have the power to subsequently reject it?

It took the lovingkindness of the Lord through the drawing power of the Spirit to bring our volition (will) to a place to respond and receive by faith God's salvation as a gift of God's grace. If it took God to influence us in our volition to consider Him and receive the grace of God to be saved, then it would also take his influence to do the same for us to reject what we did not deserve. Now why would God do such a thing when he is not willing that any should perish but desire that all men be saved? It is by the power of God that we believe upon the Son, but is it by the same power that we would reject his Son? Did Christ come that the power of God would get us to reject the one we are to receive by faith? Can we reject Christ by the same faith that we have received him? And can the same grace that we receive by faith that saved us be the same grace that we reject by faith that would unsave us?

Col 2:6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
 
Would you agree that if a Christian attempted to leave God as Jonah did, saying, "Good riddin's!" and never attempted to come back, but lived the rest of their life doing whatever evil came to their mind, that they would still be saved? And I'm not talking about if someone must not have been saved in the first place, but those that you agree we're actually saved. If, if, if this WERE the case, would they still be saved?

Now if a square (without stopping being a square) were round would it stop being a square? And if the sky were blue and stayed blue, but became red (while staying blue), would it be yellow?
And if I always tell the truth, yet always lie, would I be telling the truth?

I affirm an axiom, self-evident truth: A thing cannot be so & not so at the same time.

Now if you want to know about Once Saved, Saved (the rocket science theory that if a man is saved then he is saved [duh!]), stop postulating this & that, & consider the plain statements by the Lord:

Ps 34
YHWH redeems the soul of his servants;
And none of them who take refuge in him shall be condemned.

Ps 52
But as for me, I am like a green olive-tree in the house of God:
I trust in the lovingkindness of God for ever and ever.
I will give thee thanks for ever, because thou hast done it;

1 Thes 5 end:
"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you, Who will also do it.

Col 3
If then ye were raised together with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated on the right hand of God. Set your mind on the things that are above, not on the things that are upon the earth. For ye died, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall be manifested, then shall ye also with him be manifested in glory.

2 Thes 2:16
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.
End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 3He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth; who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

< 1 Pet 1
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

THE OVERCOMER
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

. . . I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

In II Thess. 3:3 “But the Lord is faithful, who shall establish you, and guard you from the evil one.”

In II Tim. 1:12 he sounds a note of rejoicing: “For I know Him whom I have believed, and I am persuaded that He is able to guard that which I have committed unto Him against that day.”
< 2 Tim 4:18
The Lord will deliver me from every evil work, and will save me unto his heavenly kingdom;


2 Tim 1:8-9
… God; who saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before times eternal,

2 thes 2:16-17 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.
Rm 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 10:27-29
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

1 John 5:10-13
Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

Romans 11:6
But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

Romans 8:34
Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Philippians 3:20-21
But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.

Ps 138
"thy right hand will save me.
YHWH will perfect that which concerns me:"
Ephesians 1:13
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

1 John 5:10-13
Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.
John 6:40
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in
For this is the will of my Father, that every one that beholdeth the Son, and believeth on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Hebrews 10:14
For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.

John 4:14
But whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again. The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.
John 6:47
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
Psalm 34:22
The Lord redeems the life of his servants; none of those who take refuge in him will be condemned.
Jude 1:24
Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy,
1 Peter 1:3-5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Colossians 1:13
He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,
Romans 8:32
He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things?
Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus
John 1:12
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

Hebrews 9:15
Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.

Ephesians 1:11
In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,

< ps 138
thy right hand will save me.
Jehovah will perfect that which concerns me:
Thy lovingkindness, O Jehovah, endureth forever;

Heb 11:19ff

And these all, having had witness borne to them through their faith, received not the promise, God having provided some better thing concerning us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect. Therefore let us also, seeing we are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, looking unto Jesus the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,


looking unto Jesus the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,


Isaiah 26:12
Jehovah, thou wilt ordain peace for us; for thou hast also wrought all our works for us.

Eph 2
but God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved), and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus: that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus: for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not of works, that no man should glory. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them.

Philip 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.
 
Now if a man has the ability to trust Christ and does so and thus receives a new birth, becoming a child of God, does He have the ability to be unborn again? Can the man chose not to have had a new birth?

How about your physical birth. Now if your parents have the will to bring you forth as their child and they do so & your birth certificate is duly signed & sealed (long form in Hawaii), can your parents by an act of will cause you to have never been born? Can they unbirth you?

Just because you can do something, does not mean you can undo it. Try unscrambling an egg.
 
Now if a man has the ability to trust Christ and does so and thus receives a new birth, becoming a child of God, does He have the ability to be unborn again? Can the man chose not to have had a new birth?

How about your physical birth. Now if your parents have the will to bring you forth as their child and they do so & your birth certificate is duly signed & sealed (long form in Hawaii), can your parents by an act of will cause you to have never been born? Can they unbirth you?

Just because you can do something, does not mean you can undo it. Try unscrambling an egg.

scripture says different....
Hebrews 3:12-13King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.