Rage and Anger.
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ok
Friendly reminder from @Snackersmom
We're all just waiting for you to provide scripture about your 'guess the name that's on my mind' method of testing the spirits.
I'd just think it would be Jesus Christ and that He came in the flesh but it seems like you don't accept that? Or is it the same thing.
As for Karlon, well it's easy for him to confess this truth which am sure he's done multiple times and tested any spirit that was talking to him.
Really its no big deal, I guess according to you Karlon's posts are not fitting with the answers you are demanding....?
We can't go by what a person says. The Bible says to test the spirits ourselves, not ask and rely on the person if the spirit is okay.
When Paul came across the slave possessed with the spirit of divination, did Paul ask her if her spirit was okay? OF COURSE she would have just said, "Yes, the spirit is okay." Should Paul say then, "Oh well if that's the case, carry on your way!"
Same here. For a lot of desperate people, espeically men in their middle age, the grace of God is the only thing that keeps them from self destructive behaviors.That's why I stick close to God. He's the only one that has been perfectly good to me.
Yeah that's what bugs me the most about this whole theater play. The lack of respect to God.
It reminds me of a poem about some people who were watching the lions fight, back in the days of knights and ampitheaters. There was one knight, and a lady he was courting. The lady dropped her glove over the railing and looked at him, a clear challenge to prove he loved her by getting her glove back.
He jumped down, got the glove, jumped back up and threw it in her face.
"Rightly done" said Sir Francis
And he rose from where he sat
"No love" quoth he "But vanity
Sets love a task like that."
Your demand reminds me of a Nicole Nordeman song.
Have I come too casually?
Because it seems to me
There's something I've neglected
How does one approach a Deity
With informality
And still protect the Sacred?
'Cause you came and chose to wear the skin of all of us
And it's easy to forget You left a throne
Oh let me not
Forget to tremble
i believe he's referring to me. he asked me to prove a name. its funny how he props himself as a leader & or a boss & that i'm to answer to him. i hope he's not afflicted with a superiority complex or megalomania. too, if he's a victim of self-importance, i wish for him to cast it out. in fact, i hope for him to receive all the blessings Jesus has for him. i recently dealt with someone as that concerning the land i inherited. that guy came on strong with the characteristics of irascibleness & selfishness. after our 1st talk & about a half hour later, he completely turned his approach to submission: i witnessed the Lord Jesus to him & he accepted!
Ok.
It seems crucial that we look at the Biblical guideline for testing a spirit:
1 John 4: 1-4 --
"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God.
And this is the spirit of the AntiChrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.
You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world."
So here we have our test -- does the spirit confess that Jesus has come in the flesh?
This test says nothing about "Guess what I'm thinking to prove God talks to you."
Now I have to confess, when I was a Lutheran school kid, I never thought this test was very thorough because if I can lie, then an evil spirit sure can, too. The Bible even says that Satan himself "masquerades as an angel of light."
Other kids in my Lutheran school class were very concerned about the AntiChrist sneaking in among us and not being able to recognize him, so they, too, were unconvinced by this test, and asked for more ways to tell.
My former Lutheran church was very conversative and hesitant to believe that ANYONE actually personally heard from God as -- at best it was seen as possible, but rare, and to be very, very cautious -- at worst, it was seen as demonic.
In school, we had a pastor who taught us that the other important thing to do is look at the motivations behind what's being said and done. The Bible says some will perform signs and wonders in the last days, but many will be false. Our pastor always used the example, "If a guy goes out and raises a building, the puts it back down, he's doing it to bring attention to himself, not God."
The motivation is obviously self-glorification, not glorifying God.
(Continued...)
It seems crucial that we look at the Biblical guideline for testing a spirit:
1 John 4: 1-4 --
"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God.
And this is the spirit of the AntiChrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.
You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world."
So here we have our test -- does the spirit confess that Jesus has come in the flesh?
This test says nothing about "Guess what I'm thinking to prove God talks to you."
Now I have to confess, when I was a Lutheran school kid, I never thought this test was very thorough because if I can lie, then an evil spirit sure can, too. The Bible even says that Satan himself "masquerades as an angel of light."
Other kids in my Lutheran school class were very concerned about the AntiChrist sneaking in among us and not being able to recognize him, so they, too, were unconvinced by this test, and asked for more ways to tell.
My former Lutheran church was very conversative and hesitant to believe that ANYONE actually personally heard from God as -- at best it was seen as possible, but rare, and to be very, very cautious -- at worst, it was seen as demonic.
In school, we had a pastor who taught us that the other important thing to do is look at the motivations behind what's being said and done. The Bible says some will perform signs and wonders in the last days, but many will be false. Our pastor always used the example, "If a guy goes out and raises a building, the puts it back down, he's doing it to bring attention to himself, not God."
The motivation is obviously self-glorification, not glorifying God.
(Continued...)
Over the years, I've come to believe that some other very important considerations need to be included in any test of the spirits.
1. Does the purpose of the test, and the method of the test, glorify God? Or does it point to an individual, ministry, etc.?
1 John shows us plainly -- any test has to point to emphasizing Jesus's coming in the flesh.
Does the given test in this thread point to Jesus as our Savior? I would argue that a "Give me the name I'm thinking" does not, and therefore, is not a viable test. (But that's just me.)
Now of course, anyone is free to choose or approve of tests that aren't pointing to Jesus, but or me, I don't believe this ends well.
2. What is the motivation behind the one being tested? (Is the test needed? Does the reason for the test glorify God?)
I haven't had time to go back and re-read the entire thread, but I believe Karlon's answer came about because it was asked if and how people hear from God. I think Karlon was simply replying to the question of if he hears from God, and how. Many others have done this here, too.
People were sharing the ways in which God speaks to them. No one here (unless I missed it) was giving words of knowledge for others, making sweeping prophecies and insisting we all need to believe them (putting emphasis on their own spiritual prowess rather than God,) or trying to set themselves up as a spiritual authority figure (pastor, teacher, prophet, etc.)
The other thing to look at is the person's history and fruits. From what I've read of his posts, Karlon is a very wise, knowledgeable person who tries to share the love of Christ with others. If he went around berating people "in the name of the Lord" and causing strife, I'd be much more cautious.
So for myself, I would have to ask if a test of the spirit is actually needed -- if the person isn't trying to put up anything as a word from God we all have to listen to, and/or doesn't seem to have questionable motives, I'm generally not too worried.
If a person says they communicate with God in a certain way and isn't trying to push anything on anyone else, I just pray for them and move on. I don't see a need to test them.
But Seoul, we just can't let people run around claiming to hear from God when they're not!!
I understand that. But I think it's important to look at another factor when considering a test.
3. What is the motivation of the person requesting the test? (Again, is the test needed? And again, does it glorify God?)
Sometimes, the reason for the test is to protect both the person, and the audience, from hearing from an unclean spirit. We would hope that this would always be the reason for a testing.
I spent about 15 years in a charismatic church that very much believed in hearing words from God, and have found that this isn't always the case.
Many such "tests" are often conducted out of jealousy. People want to bring someone down in front of everyone because they're jealous that someone else has a bigger ministry, gets more attention (whether from God or the audience,) or experience God on a higher plane than they are -- and they think they deserve it for themselves.
They want the close relationship they see someone having with God -- but they're not at a place yet, or aren't willing, to put in the work it takes to get there. It's like a worker being jealous of the business owner, but not putting in all the blood, sweat, and tears that the business owner has already given.
And so the easiest thing to do is to tear down the other person to their level. ("You see? He/she isn't so special to God after all!")
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Jacob said so himself: "If God can speak to Karlon, He can speak to me."
To me, that is not a test born out of protecting Karlon or the community. It's a battle of wills, saying, "God, if you do this for someone else, then you'd better do that for me, too. And if you don't, I'm going to prove you don't really talk to this person! Just watch!"
Therefore, I don't see it as a valid test to begin with because of the motivation is off.
But again, I could be wrong.
The other thing I've learned about testing spirits is that you can't always put a time limit on them. Sometimes, you just have to wait it out and see if what they say actually comes to pass (or what their fruits are really like.)
(Continued.)
1. Does the purpose of the test, and the method of the test, glorify God? Or does it point to an individual, ministry, etc.?
1 John shows us plainly -- any test has to point to emphasizing Jesus's coming in the flesh.
Does the given test in this thread point to Jesus as our Savior? I would argue that a "Give me the name I'm thinking" does not, and therefore, is not a viable test. (But that's just me.)
Now of course, anyone is free to choose or approve of tests that aren't pointing to Jesus, but or me, I don't believe this ends well.
2. What is the motivation behind the one being tested? (Is the test needed? Does the reason for the test glorify God?)
I haven't had time to go back and re-read the entire thread, but I believe Karlon's answer came about because it was asked if and how people hear from God. I think Karlon was simply replying to the question of if he hears from God, and how. Many others have done this here, too.
People were sharing the ways in which God speaks to them. No one here (unless I missed it) was giving words of knowledge for others, making sweeping prophecies and insisting we all need to believe them (putting emphasis on their own spiritual prowess rather than God,) or trying to set themselves up as a spiritual authority figure (pastor, teacher, prophet, etc.)
The other thing to look at is the person's history and fruits. From what I've read of his posts, Karlon is a very wise, knowledgeable person who tries to share the love of Christ with others. If he went around berating people "in the name of the Lord" and causing strife, I'd be much more cautious.
So for myself, I would have to ask if a test of the spirit is actually needed -- if the person isn't trying to put up anything as a word from God we all have to listen to, and/or doesn't seem to have questionable motives, I'm generally not too worried.
If a person says they communicate with God in a certain way and isn't trying to push anything on anyone else, I just pray for them and move on. I don't see a need to test them.
But Seoul, we just can't let people run around claiming to hear from God when they're not!!
I understand that. But I think it's important to look at another factor when considering a test.
3. What is the motivation of the person requesting the test? (Again, is the test needed? And again, does it glorify God?)
Sometimes, the reason for the test is to protect both the person, and the audience, from hearing from an unclean spirit. We would hope that this would always be the reason for a testing.
I spent about 15 years in a charismatic church that very much believed in hearing words from God, and have found that this isn't always the case.
Many such "tests" are often conducted out of jealousy. People want to bring someone down in front of everyone because they're jealous that someone else has a bigger ministry, gets more attention (whether from God or the audience,) or experience God on a higher plane than they are -- and they think they deserve it for themselves.
They want the close relationship they see someone having with God -- but they're not at a place yet, or aren't willing, to put in the work it takes to get there. It's like a worker being jealous of the business owner, but not putting in all the blood, sweat, and tears that the business owner has already given.
And so the easiest thing to do is to tear down the other person to their level. ("You see? He/she isn't so special to God after all!")
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Jacob said so himself: "If God can speak to Karlon, He can speak to me."
To me, that is not a test born out of protecting Karlon or the community. It's a battle of wills, saying, "God, if you do this for someone else, then you'd better do that for me, too. And if you don't, I'm going to prove you don't really talk to this person! Just watch!"
Therefore, I don't see it as a valid test to begin with because of the motivation is off.
But again, I could be wrong.
The other thing I've learned about testing spirits is that you can't always put a time limit on them. Sometimes, you just have to wait it out and see if what they say actually comes to pass (or what their fruits are really like.)
(Continued.)
I do understand about being cautious against evil spirits.
I have a good friend who has dedicated her entire life to ministry, and she's been plagued by this for years. People in the charismatic ministry keep telling her she's going to meet someone and get married.
I've told the story of how a woman one told here that she was going to marry someone with dark, curly hair. My friend wants to obey the Lord so much (and is so afraid of disobeying Him) that she's felt she can't consider any other guy who doesn't have that exact hair color and texture.
However, it's been YEARS... and I don't know if she still believes that.
A woman also gave her a ring and told her, "You are to wear this until you meet your husband and he replaces it with your wedding ring." That was DECADES ago and I don't know if my friend still believes that either -- or if she still wears that ring. I know she did like clockwork for a very long time.
But it happened yet again, when someone important and highly respected in her ministry circle told her she would be getting married and gave her a time span of I think 8 months.
I believe almost 2 years have passed -- and she hasn't even met someone, let alone got married.
This angers me to no end because my friend is one of the most dedicated, humble, and giving people you would ever meet (I've always said, if she is the standard for going to heaven, I'm never going to make it.) Obviously, I'm joking, but she is truly one of the best Christians I know, and it greatly upsets me that people are spiritually abusing her goodwill.
But I also pray that she will realize that the spirits claiming to speak to her through others are obviously not of God, and that she will learn to reject them at their first word. She believed in these people with all her heart, and they more than anyone acknowledged that Christ came in the flesh.
But they still got it wrong. And all she could do, in her willingness to believe, was wait and see that none of their "prophecies" came to pass.
The difference to me is that these people claim to hear from God and have words for her that affect her whole life. She's made life decisions about jobs and locations based on these "words from God I have for you," and it's all been for nothing.
I've had this happen to me, too. "Prophetic" people once told me I would get married in 2 years, and that I would have X amount of children before age XX. But all that time passed... And nothing happened.
Do I believe these people were sincere? Absolutely. I had no reason to not believe. But obviously, they were wrong, and knowing in my heart that they were real Christians who just got things very wrong made it hurt even more.
I pray that God disciplines those who give "words" like this and teaches them how to TRULY walk in His voice.
But if anyone tells me "I hear from God" -- I don't require a test UNLESS they were trying to tell me or anyone else something I/we NEEDED to believe, prepare for, or make life decisions around.
If they hear from God, great! As long as it's between them and the Lord and doesn't have anything to do with me or others, I stay out of their business. If they don't hear from God or hear the wrong things, God will correct them, even if it takes a long time.
I also believe that even those who are the best at hearing from God will occasionally get something wrong -- either they mishear, misinterpret, or yes, might have heard from the wrong spirit. We live in a sinful world. No one is going to get everything 100% accurately.
And so I look for people's fruits, motivations, and whether or not they are trying to lord over other people in the name of Jesus without ever taking correction for themselves -- and ask God how I should proceed from there.
But again, this is just me, and I could be wrong.
If you've read these posts, I genuinely appreciate your time.
I have a good friend who has dedicated her entire life to ministry, and she's been plagued by this for years. People in the charismatic ministry keep telling her she's going to meet someone and get married.
I've told the story of how a woman one told here that she was going to marry someone with dark, curly hair. My friend wants to obey the Lord so much (and is so afraid of disobeying Him) that she's felt she can't consider any other guy who doesn't have that exact hair color and texture.
However, it's been YEARS... and I don't know if she still believes that.
A woman also gave her a ring and told her, "You are to wear this until you meet your husband and he replaces it with your wedding ring." That was DECADES ago and I don't know if my friend still believes that either -- or if she still wears that ring. I know she did like clockwork for a very long time.
But it happened yet again, when someone important and highly respected in her ministry circle told her she would be getting married and gave her a time span of I think 8 months.
I believe almost 2 years have passed -- and she hasn't even met someone, let alone got married.
This angers me to no end because my friend is one of the most dedicated, humble, and giving people you would ever meet (I've always said, if she is the standard for going to heaven, I'm never going to make it.) Obviously, I'm joking, but she is truly one of the best Christians I know, and it greatly upsets me that people are spiritually abusing her goodwill.
But I also pray that she will realize that the spirits claiming to speak to her through others are obviously not of God, and that she will learn to reject them at their first word. She believed in these people with all her heart, and they more than anyone acknowledged that Christ came in the flesh.
But they still got it wrong. And all she could do, in her willingness to believe, was wait and see that none of their "prophecies" came to pass.
The difference to me is that these people claim to hear from God and have words for her that affect her whole life. She's made life decisions about jobs and locations based on these "words from God I have for you," and it's all been for nothing.
I've had this happen to me, too. "Prophetic" people once told me I would get married in 2 years, and that I would have X amount of children before age XX. But all that time passed... And nothing happened.
Do I believe these people were sincere? Absolutely. I had no reason to not believe. But obviously, they were wrong, and knowing in my heart that they were real Christians who just got things very wrong made it hurt even more.
I pray that God disciplines those who give "words" like this and teaches them how to TRULY walk in His voice.
But if anyone tells me "I hear from God" -- I don't require a test UNLESS they were trying to tell me or anyone else something I/we NEEDED to believe, prepare for, or make life decisions around.
If they hear from God, great! As long as it's between them and the Lord and doesn't have anything to do with me or others, I stay out of their business. If they don't hear from God or hear the wrong things, God will correct them, even if it takes a long time.
I also believe that even those who are the best at hearing from God will occasionally get something wrong -- either they mishear, misinterpret, or yes, might have heard from the wrong spirit. We live in a sinful world. No one is going to get everything 100% accurately.
And so I look for people's fruits, motivations, and whether or not they are trying to lord over other people in the name of Jesus without ever taking correction for themselves -- and ask God how I should proceed from there.
But again, this is just me, and I could be wrong.
If you've read these posts, I genuinely appreciate your time.
Jesus coming in the flesh is important and also which Jesus. Jesus Christ of Nazareth (not any other Jesus). You can't just ask are you the Holy Spirit because any spirit can just say yes they are. That spirit has to confess that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. That is how you know it is from God.
The Holy Spirit never speaks of himself...always points to Jesus.
God is not interested in whether you marry or not. That is the least of His concerns. He's more --are you seeking righteousness. He wants you to learn of Him.
Marriage will not get you into heaven. Marriage will not save you. Only Jesus can save you.
The Holy Spirit never speaks of himself...always points to Jesus.
God is not interested in whether you marry or not. That is the least of His concerns. He's more --are you seeking righteousness. He wants you to learn of Him.
Marriage will not get you into heaven. Marriage will not save you. Only Jesus can save you.
true, asset of q's should always be considered in the testing. you really laid out a genuine format!
They don't reply to text. You have to use a weegee (sp?) board to get them on the line. Or so I've heard.
think its called ouija board. oui=yes in French ja=yes in German
So, you might just get a garbled French/German translation.
I wouldn't recommend getting into divination/witchcraft/sorcery. It only ends badly.
But, but the modern grace teachers claim it's all good they are still saved and will still go to Heaven even if they become satan worshipers. It's all good is what they claim.