Then you reject Rom 5:10 and 2 Cor 5:19 Since you fail to discuss those posts, we have nothing to discuss
Reconciled to God while enemies !
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You speak so without understanding. Rom 5:10 applies to everyone of the elect Christ died for. A person didnt have to be alive or born when God laid upon Christ their sins, so whenever they are born, they were reconciled to God by Christs death, they just havent come into the experience of it yet, but they will
That's fine. That's right. But that isn't your main point. You want to argue that since you and I were reconciled to God while we were his enemies, our sins were expiated at that time. Therefore, we "cannot be under condemnation and wrath as others Jn 3:18,36 even while being unbelievers !" This is not true for the reasons I outlined in previous posts.
In addition, not only do you totally misunderstand Romans 5:10, but your conclusion also ignores clear Biblical teaching, especially the New Testament. You will not find a statement of Jesus or the apostles suggesting that a person doesn't need to repent, believe that Jesus is both Lord and Savior, surrender, and walk according to the Spirit. John 3:18
Moreover, your view of salvation is transaction-based -- God needed Jesus to die on a cross before he could reconcile with humanity. God was being held to some form of mystical, cosmic justice requiring someone to pay for our sins before God is allowed to forgive our sins.
This is contrary to the New Testament perspective that salvation is relational-based. Remember when Jesus said that some would come in his name performing miracles? He said that he would reject them because he never knew them. Salvation is not a tit-for-tat exchange. Jesus is going to save those whom he knows and reject those whom he doesn't know.
Do you honestly believe what you said, or are you just trying to goad me? Of course, I don't reject those passages. What a silly thing to say.
Let me ask you this. Do you honestly believe that you were alive when Christ died on the cross? You were his enemy WHILE God was reconciling the world through Jesus. REALLY?
No I didn't, but let us see what it says:
You - 2Cor. 5:19 means that souls are reconciled to God by the death of His Son before they are born into this world as sinners.
They have a clean slate before God and thus have no need to repent.
Me - 2Cor. 5:17-21 means that those who repent upon hearing the message of reconciliation through faith in Christ will be saved.
We implore you to be reconciled to God by accepting Christ's atonement/reconciliaton.
You - Rom. 4:7 says that those whose sins are forgiven/cancelled are blessed.
Me - I agree.
You - Rom. 4:8 means that sins are not charged to sinners.
Me - Yes, to sinners who have saving faith like Abraham--without exception (Rom. 4:1-25).
Yes you reject Rom 5:10 and 2 Cor 5:19. Also the saints of today didnt have to be alive when Christ died for their sins in 33 ad. I just discussed that with you, now if you keep lying Im going to just block you. People like you start lying and fabricating when they oppose clear scripture.
Legally Reconciled first !
All those that Christ died for are legally, but not experimentally reconciled to God in Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Yes here in Rom 5:10a Paul is only speaking of Reconciliation legally before God, no sin has been imputed to our charge. Even when those Christ died for are yet enemies and unbelievers they have been reconciled to God; However he does goes on to speak on their experimental Reconciliation [by His Death and Life] as a sure event to transpire in their life, this he does when he states " Much more, being Reconciled [while enemies] we SHALL be saved by His Life" Now this phrase 'shall be saved by His Life" means their experimental reconciliation is certain, which is what he means here Col 1:21-22
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Now in the Rom 5:10a passage Paul teaches that all for whom Christ died are reconciled to God legally, even while experimentally they were being enemies; and because of that reconciliation legally, they shall be saved from being enemies, which is what Paul stated to the believing Colossians here in Col 1:21, where Paul states they were once [past tense] enemies. But remember, even while being enemies in their mind, they had legally still been Reconciled to God by Christ's Death, but now they have been experimentally Reconciled.
So Paul Teaches by the Death of Christ a Twofold Reconciliation effected by Christ's Death, One which is solely legal, it being effected even while they are being enemies Rom 5:10a; and #2 One that is effected that saves them experimentally out of being enemies in their minds Col 1:21, and Both are effected by the Death of Christ Col 1:22
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through[because of His] death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Now understand this also, This also confirms that its Through Christ's Death as the Meritorious cause it effects both legal and experimental Reconciliations to God, even as it is called 'being saved by His Life" in Rom 5:10b !
So for anyone to say that Christ's Death alone, in and of itself does not save one experimentally, they are deceived and Against CHRIST !! For anyone to tamper with the Saving Efficacy of the Meritorious Death of Christ, His Blood and Cross, they are walking according to the flesh and perverting the ways of the Lord
The challenge is out for anyone to prove anything, any one point not true in this post, that sets forth truthfully the Gospel of Reconciliation by the Blood of Christ ! 1
All those that Christ died for are legally, but not experimentally reconciled to God in Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Yes here in Rom 5:10a Paul is only speaking of Reconciliation legally before God, no sin has been imputed to our charge. Even when those Christ died for are yet enemies and unbelievers they have been reconciled to God; However he does goes on to speak on their experimental Reconciliation [by His Death and Life] as a sure event to transpire in their life, this he does when he states " Much more, being Reconciled [while enemies] we SHALL be saved by His Life" Now this phrase 'shall be saved by His Life" means their experimental reconciliation is certain, which is what he means here Col 1:21-22
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Now in the Rom 5:10a passage Paul teaches that all for whom Christ died are reconciled to God legally, even while experimentally they were being enemies; and because of that reconciliation legally, they shall be saved from being enemies, which is what Paul stated to the believing Colossians here in Col 1:21, where Paul states they were once [past tense] enemies. But remember, even while being enemies in their mind, they had legally still been Reconciled to God by Christ's Death, but now they have been experimentally Reconciled.
So Paul Teaches by the Death of Christ a Twofold Reconciliation effected by Christ's Death, One which is solely legal, it being effected even while they are being enemies Rom 5:10a; and #2 One that is effected that saves them experimentally out of being enemies in their minds Col 1:21, and Both are effected by the Death of Christ Col 1:22
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through[because of His] death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Now understand this also, This also confirms that its Through Christ's Death as the Meritorious cause it effects both legal and experimental Reconciliations to God, even as it is called 'being saved by His Life" in Rom 5:10b !
So for anyone to say that Christ's Death alone, in and of itself does not save one experimentally, they are deceived and Against CHRIST !! For anyone to tamper with the Saving Efficacy of the Meritorious Death of Christ, His Blood and Cross, they are walking according to the flesh and perverting the ways of the Lord
The challenge is out for anyone to prove anything, any one point not true in this post, that sets forth truthfully the Gospel of Reconciliation by the Blood of Christ ! 1
2Cor. 5:17-21 means that those who repent upon hearing the message of reconciliation through faith in Christ will be saved like Abraham was per Rom. 4:1-25--without exception, so we implore you to be reconciled to God by accepting Christ's atonement/ reconciliation and reflecting the Lord's love (Acts 16:31, Rom. 10:9, 8:9, 5:5).
My prayer for you is that which Paul prayed for the Galatians (Gal. 1:6-12, 3:6-9,14&24).
I believe this is the Truth:
The normative way of stating the Gospel/Truth in the NT is “Accept Christ Jesus as Lord” (as in Acts 16:31, 2Cor. 4:5 & Col. 2:6) or “Love Jesus as Messiah and Lord” (John 8:42). The main points of Christian orthodoxy implicit in these statements can be explained or elaborated as follows:
- There is a/one all-loving and just Lord or God (Deut. 6:4, John 3:16, 2Thes. 1:6), who is both able (2Tim. 1:12) and willing (1Tim. 2:3-4, Ezek. 33:11) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.
- Human beings are selfish or sinful (Rom. 3:23, 2Tim. 3:2-4, Col. 3:5), miserable (Gal. 5:19-21), and hopeless (Eph. 2:12) or hell-bound at the judgment (Matt. 23:33 & 25:46) when they reject God’s salvation (John 3:18, Rom. 2:5-11).
- Jesus is God’s Messiah/Christ and incarnate Son, the way that God has chosen (John 3:16, Acts 16:30-31, Phil. 2:9-11) of providing salvation by means of his atoning death on the cross for the payment of the penalty for the sins of humanity (Rom. 3:22-25 & 5:9-11), followed by his resurrection to reign in heaven (1Cor. 15:14-28).
- Thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to repent and accept God’s justification in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (Luke 2:11, John 14:6, Acts 16:31), which means trying to obey His commandment to love one another (Matt. 22:37-40, John 13:35, Rom. 13:9)—forever (Matt. 10:22, Psa. 113:2).
- Then God’s Holy Spirit will establish a saving relationship with those who freely accept Him (Rev. 3:20) that will eventually achieve heaven when by means of persevering in learning Truth/God’s Word/sanctification everyone cooperates fully with His will (John 14:6, 17&26, Rom. 8:6-17, Gal. 6:7-9, Eph. 1:13-14, Heb. 10:36, 12:1, Jam. 1:2-4).
We do believe and preach that every Justified and or Reconciled sinner before God, and that solely premised upon His Death and or Blood as Per Rom 5:9-10, that sometime in their sinful physical lifetime that they shall receive a actual Spiritual Application of Justification and their Imputed Righteousness whereby they will receive a knowledge of it by Faith !
You would believe that prayer is unnecessary if you were willing not to ignore 1Tim. 2:3-4 and Matt. 23:37, etc.
More on reconciliation !
One who has been legally reconciled to God by the Blood of Christ or to say by His Death Rom 5:10, even while being enemies and unbelievers, this reconciliation is also their Justification before God, simply because reconciliation legally denotes the non imputation of their sins unto them 2 Cor 5:19
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
So , legal reconciliation and non imputation of sin go hand and hand, and that can be the case only if God does not reckon them to be lawbreakers, because of the Blood of Christ shed for them alone, for Christ's sake alone, God hath accepted their persons as Righteous, not for anything in them by Nature, nor wrought in them by New Birth or the Spirit, but while they are being enemies by nature, and not for anything done by them , but for Christ's Sake alone ! It is not because of any Gospel Obedience such as repenting and believing, but because also of imputing the Righteousness and Obedience of Christ unto them, and this also while they themselves are being enemies by nature as well as being ignorant of their own Justification, and Reconciliation to God, solely by the Death of Christ ! 2
One who has been legally reconciled to God by the Blood of Christ or to say by His Death Rom 5:10, even while being enemies and unbelievers, this reconciliation is also their Justification before God, simply because reconciliation legally denotes the non imputation of their sins unto them 2 Cor 5:19
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
So , legal reconciliation and non imputation of sin go hand and hand, and that can be the case only if God does not reckon them to be lawbreakers, because of the Blood of Christ shed for them alone, for Christ's sake alone, God hath accepted their persons as Righteous, not for anything in them by Nature, nor wrought in them by New Birth or the Spirit, but while they are being enemies by nature, and not for anything done by them , but for Christ's Sake alone ! It is not because of any Gospel Obedience such as repenting and believing, but because also of imputing the Righteousness and Obedience of Christ unto them, and this also while they themselves are being enemies by nature as well as being ignorant of their own Justification, and Reconciliation to God, solely by the Death of Christ ! 2