Reconciled to God while enemies !

[Roger316]

More Truth on 2 Cor 5:19

Many false teachers, those who teach that Christ died for all without exception,

First of all, 2 Corinthians 5:19 doesn't say that Christ died for anyone. It says that God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself.

Second, the Bible teaches that Christ died for our SINS. And the reason why Paul says that God was in Christ reconciling the world is that EVERYONE sins.

Third, Paul mentions that God is/was not counting their trespasses against them.

Finally, (and this is going to really blow your mind) Jesus forgave the sins of the paralytic. Imagine that. His sins were forgiven BEFORE Jesus died on the cross.

What is THAT about? eh?

 

[Roger316]

Which Christ gives Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Repentance is something to be received, not something to be given. Maybe your translator misunderstood?

 

[Roger316]

I've heard of that explanation as well. But then the problem is God isnt being truthful. He is playing games and offering false reconciliation with the world. Pretends to repent of His judgments which He caused. etc. Its all a game

I don't think it is necessarily the case that people who write stories are playing games. Is it?

 

[brightfame52]

Great. But in the book of Acts, the jews by and large REJECTED that repentance and Paul was then sent unto the gentiles

Thats the elect, the Church He saves from unbelief and rejection of Him by giving them repentance. Repentance is a change of mind

 

[brightfame52]

First of all, 2 Corinthians 5:19 doesn't say that Christ died for anyone. It says that God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself.

It doesnt have to say it, its implied, if God isnt imputing their sins to them, where did they go ? They were charged to Christ for Him to die for them . God just didnt let the sins slide, they had to be dealt with, vs 21 explains

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Also 1 Cor 15:3-4

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Thats how and why He reconciled the world until Himself, by not counting their sins against them, but He counted them against Christ. Learn your bible friend

 

[brightfame52]

Second, the Bible teaches that Christ died for our SINS.

According to the scriptures 1 Cor 15:3 that was OT scripture perhaps Isa 53 and our sins there is Gods chosen people

 

[brightfame52]

Third, Paul mentions that God is/was not counting their trespasses against them.

Correct, so that tells us it wasnt all mankind duh, since many will have their sins charged to them Matt 7:23

23 And then will I profess unto them,

Finally, (and this is going to really blow your mind) Jesus forgave the sins of the paralytic. Imagine that. His sins were forgiven BEFORE Jesus died on the cross.

He was going to die for his sins, God didnt charge them to the paralytic, same for woman taken in adultery and mary magdaline

 

[brightfame52]

Repentance is something to be received

Its given, that's why its received. Its actually regeneration/salvation The elect are born again by the resurrection of Christ from the dead, and that gives them repentance 1 Pet 1:3

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Begotten us again is the greek anagennaō:

1. to produce again, be born again, born anew
2. 
   
3. metaph. to have one's mind changed so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God

Repentance μετάνοια:

1. a change of mind, as it appears to one who repents, of a purpose he has formed or of something he has done

So Jesus as Saviour gives repentance by causing us to be born anew

 

[Roger316]

Thats the elect, the Church He saves from unbelief and rejection of Him by giving them repentance. Repentance is a change of mind

I think Hakawaka is making a fair observation. He’s simply noting that your interpretation doesn’t quite line up with the facts as we have them. And when that happens to any of us, the best move is to revisit our interpretation and see where it might need adjusting.

 

[Cameron143]

The Biblical term for man reconciling with God is "repentance."

Where is this stated in scripture?

Nothing man does reconciles him to God. God in Christ reconciles man to Himself. Repentance comes from an acknowledgement of this reality as God makes known what He has done by grace through faith. Repentance will always accompany true salvation as a humble and contrite heart the Lord will not despise, but it is always in response to the activity of God and not its cause.

 

[brightfame52]

I think Hakawaka is making a fair observation. He’s simply noting that your interpretation doesn’t quite line up with the facts as we have them. And when that happens to any of us, the best move is to revisit our interpretation and see where it might need adjusting.

Nevertheless, Jesus gives repentance Acts 5:31 thats how it is He was exalted to do that as Prince and Saviour, i cant help what that person or yourself cant believe or receive, and I dont play bible hopscotch

 

[Roger316]

It doesnt have to say it, its implied, if God isnt imputing their sins to them, where did they go ?

They were passed over, as Paul said. God forgives sins.

They were charged to Christ for Him to die for them .

Why were they charged to Christ? Did he sin? Or if Christ is innocent, (and he is) why would God punish an innocent for our sins? That isn't just.

God just didnt let the sins slide, they had to be dealt with, vs 21 explains

Sure he did. As Paul said, he passed over them.

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

When Paul says that God ‘made Christ to be sin for us,’ he isn’t describing some literal transformation in Christ’s nature on the cross. He’s talking about Christ willingly stepping into the role of representing sin — standing in its place — so that God could publicly demonstrate His justice. That’s the point Paul makes in Romans 3: Christ’s crucifixion was a visible, historical display of God’s righteousness, not an episode of God pouring wrath onto Jesus. The emphasis is on what God was showing, not on Jesus undergoing some internal change or metaphysical punishment.

Also 1 Cor 15:3-4

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Yes, that’s exactly what I was getting at earlier. Christ died *for* sins, but His death wasn’t merited, nor was God pouring out wrath on Him. The cross was a public demonstration of God’s righteousness, not a transaction. And as Paul explains in **Romans 6**, believers participate in Christ’s death by recognizing that what Jesus displayed on the cross is what *we* ourselves deserve. In seeing the cross rightly, His followers come to grasp the profound depth of their own sin and the grace that meets them there.

“Christ died for the whole world in the sense that His message and His saving work are universally applicable. Every one of us has sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, so the significance of His death speaks to all humanity.”

 

[Roger316]

Where is this stated in scripture?

Nothing man does reconciles him to God. God in Christ reconciles man to Himself. Repentance comes from an acknowledgement of this reality as God makes known what He has done by grace through faith. Repentance will always accompany true salvation as a humble and contrite heart the Lord will not despise, but it is always in response to the activity of God and not its cause.

I agree that reconciliation begins with God’s initiative — He is the One who, in Christ, opens the way back to Himself. But reconciliation by definition involves two estranged parties, not just one. The cross is God’s side of the reconciliation: His public demonstration of righteousness and His gracious invitation to peace. Our side is repentance, the moment when we lay down our hostility and return to Him. Repentance doesn’t *cause* reconciliation any more than a prodigal son causes his father’s love, but it is the necessary response that completes the restoration of relationship. In that sense, the cross provides the grounds of reconciliation, and repentance is the human participation in it — the moment when the peace God offers is actually embraced.”

 

[brightfame52]

Repentance will always accompany true salvation

Exactly. The word give as in give repentance in Acts 5:31 is the greek word

[td]δίδωμι:

1. to give
2. to give something to someone
   
   1. of one's own accord to give one something, to his advantage
      
      1. to bestow a gift
3. and in the notes it says:
4. to cause him to repent, Acts 5:31; Acts 11:18

So the giving is a causing to repent, a change of mind

As you say, this accompanies Salvation from the Saviour, all Glory to Him

[/td]

 

[brightfame52]

They were passed over, as Paul said. God forgives sins.

God doesnt impute their sins to them, which equates to forgiveness as well Rom 4:4-6

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

 

[Roger316]

Correct, so that tells us it wasnt all mankind duh, since many will have their sins charged to them Matt 7:23

23 And then will I profess unto them,

He was going to die for his sins, God didnt charge them to the paralytic, same for woman taken in adultery and mary magdaline

I understand the concern you’re raising, but I think it’s important to remember that God doesn’t need a reason to be merciful. Scripture shows repeatedly that He forgives freely, simply because He chooses to. The cross wasn’t God finding a way to forgive us — He had already been forgiving people long before Calvary. Rather, the cross was God’s public demonstration of His righteousness, His way of showing the world the seriousness of sin and the depth of His commitment to set things right. Forgiveness flows from God’s character, not from a transaction. The cross reveals God’s justice; His mercy comes from His heart.

 

[brightfame52]

@Roger316

Why were they charged to Christ?

So Christ could die for them 1 Cor 15:3

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

That was a unlearned question, do you know Christ died for sinners ?

 

[Cameron143]

I agree that reconciliation begins with God’s initiative — He is the One who, in Christ, opens the way back to Himself. But reconciliation by definition involves two estranged parties, not just one. The cross is God’s side of the reconciliation: His public demonstration of righteousness and His gracious invitation to peace. Our side is repentance, the moment when we lay down our hostility and return to Him. Repentance doesn’t *cause* reconciliation any more than a prodigal son causes his father’s love, but it is the necessary response that completes the restoration of relationship. In that sense, the cross provides the grounds of reconciliation, and repentance is the human participation in it — the moment when the peace God offers is actually embraced.”

Have you read Romans 3? Read verses 10-18 and tell me how someone in that estate repents. Is repentance something that is done by someone without understanding? By someone not seeking after God? By someone who is not good? By someone whose throat is an open sepulchre?

Read Ephesians 2:1-3. Are these dead, dominated, and doomed people able to help themselves? No. Thankfully, verse 4...but God...

Repentance itself is a gift of God...2 Corinthians 7:10...a godly sorrow which works repentance.

Salvation is of God. God saves. Man responds to the activity of God.

 

[Roger316]

Its given, that's why its received. Its actually regeneration/salvation The elect are born again by the resurrection of Christ from the dead, and that gives them repentance 1 Pet 1:3

I understand what you’re saying, but I think we’re using the word *repentance* differently. In Scripture, repentance isn’t something automatically produced by regeneration — it’s the human side of reconciliation. God certainly initiates, but reconciliation always involves **two parties**, not one. The cross is God’s act of opening the way; repentance is our act of returning. And God doesn’t need regeneration to give repentance, nor does He need a mechanism to show mercy. He has always been free to forgive, long before the cross. The cross wasn’t God manufacturing repentance in a select group; it was His public demonstration of righteousness to the whole world. Repentance is not the effect of being secretly saved — it’s the moment a person actually responds to God’s invitation.

Jesus teaches that unless a person is born from above, he cannot even *see* the kingdom of God — the internal work of God must come first. But Scripture also insists that this inward renewal eventually becomes visible in a transformed life. New birth is the hidden work of God; new life is its outward expression. What begins as an internal opening of the eyes and heart must, in time, manifest in concrete obedience, repentance, and love. In biblical terms, the difference is not between ‘possible’ and ‘actual,’ but between the invisible root God plants and the visible fruit that grows from it.

 

[Roger316]

Correct, so that tells us it wasnt all mankind duh, since many will have their sins charged to them Matt 7:23

No, it tells us the cross wasn't about forgiveness of sins. They were already forgiven before the cross.

23 And then will I profess unto them,

He was going to die for his sins, God didnt charge them to the paralytic, same for woman taken in adultery and mary magdaline

Again, the facts bear out what I am saying. God doesn't need a reason or a cause to forgive sins. Mercy trumps judgment.