Reconciled to God while enemies !

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brightfame52 said:
What was Isaiah writing about Isa 53

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

11 ;He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Phillip used this scripture to preach Christ Acts 8:31-35

31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:

33 ;In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.

34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?

35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

I hope you not a pastor teacher because if you are, you leading folk astray
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Isaiah presents both the Suffering Servant (Isaiah 52–53) and the Triumphant Servant (Isaiah 42; 49; 50; 60–61). What Israel did not yet understand was that these were not two different figures but two stages in the mission of the *same* Servant. The One who would be exalted, restore Israel, and bring justice to the nations is the very One who would first be rejected, pierced, and bear the sins of many. The Servant suffers before He reigns; humiliation precedes exaltation. The New Testament reveals that both roles converge in Jesus.”

This is the pattern Jesus Himself teaches:
- First the suffering (Luke 24:26)
- Then the glory (Philippians 2:8–11)

Isaiah saw both realities, but the unity of the Servant’s identity was the part Israel didn’t yet grasp.
 
Hakawaka said:
Have you noticed how calvinism takes a lot of 'splaining`? Its cause you gotta change so many verses to make it fit. Cant read more than one page without conflicting the TULIP in the bible.

But dont worry, I already know the deal: Its talking about the "non elect" in the church, and its a warning , NOT A REAL ONE, but one to condemn them even further, as they can never actually believe for real.

TERRIBLE VIEW OF GOD!
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Dont worry I wont be doing a lot of explaining to you, so dont ask me lol
 
Cameron143 said:
The wages of sin is death. Every person has a sin debt that needs to be paid. Colossians 2 is specifically dealing with trespasses forgiven as a result of nailing it to the cross.
OT forgiveness came by the sacrificing of animals; a precursor to Christ. OT sins were said to be covered. Colossians speaks of sins being taken away all together.
The cross is inexorably linked to the forgiveness of sin.
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The sins of the OT Saints were covered but they were going to be paid for by Christs death Heb 9:15

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Rom 3:25

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

God exercised forbearance on the sins of the OT Saints, knowing Christ was coming to deal with them, so He gave them credit so to speak, trusting Christ would pay their debt also
 
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brightfame52 said:
I have, you know very little about scripture

Ps 22
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Psalm 32:1-2
How blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven,​
Whose sin is covered!​
blessed is the man to whom the Lord does not impute iniquity,​
And in whose spirit there is no deceit!​

Here David tells you why God forgave his sins. He confessed his sins with an honest and contrite heart. David wanted to keep his guilt private and to himself but the harder he tried, the more miserable he got. Finally he surrendered and only then did God forgive him.

The point for our discussion is this. God forgives those who turn to him with honest contrition and confession.
 
Roger316 said:
Isaiah presents both the Suffering Servant (Isaiah 52–53) and the Triumphant Servant (Isaiah 42; 49; 50; 60–61). What Israel did not yet understand was that these were not two different figures but two stages in the mission of the *same* Servant. The One who would be exalted, restore Israel, and bring justice to the nations is the very One who would first be rejected, pierced, and bear the sins of many. The Servant suffers before He reigns; humiliation precedes exaltation. The New Testament reveals that both roles converge in Jesus.”

This is the pattern Jesus Himself teaches:
- First the suffering (Luke 24:26)
- Then the glory (Philippians 2:8–11)

Isaiah saw both realities, but the unity of the Servant’s identity was the part Israel didn’t yet grasp.
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Isaiah and the other Prophets knew about the suffering and death of Christ, but not as clear as the NT 1 Pet 1 9-12

9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
 
Two will confusion: Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

Are you praying for the secret will(decree) cause that will be done regardless of prayer, or the revealed will(laws, commandments) which will never be fulfilled cause the secret will so decreed.

MAD system, schizo god
 
Roger316 said:
Here David tells you why God forgave his sins
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Based on Christ. Paul explained Rom 4:5-9

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

OT Saints looked to the coming Messiah to handle their sins with God, and it was fine for them to confess their sins to God based on that foundation, as it is now 1 Jn 1:9
 
brightfame52 said:
Isaiah and the other Prophets knew about the suffering and death of Christ, but not as clear as the NT 1 Pet 1 9-12

9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
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Peter confirms that they DIDN'T know.
 
brightfame52 said:
Based on Christ. Paul explained Rom 4:5-9

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

OT Saints looked to the coming Messiah to handle their sins with God, and it was fine for them to confess their sins to God based on that foundation, as it is now 1 Jn 1:9
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Again, David tells you that God forgave his sins when he confessed them. God doesn't need a reason to forgive people.
 
Roger316 said:
Again, David tells you that God forgave his sins when he confessed them. God doesn't need a reason to forgive people.
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Based upon the work of the coming Messiah. Same thing holds true now for the NT saints, we confess our sins based upon Justice satisfied of the Messiah 1 Jn 1:9

9 if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Gods forgiveness is always on a just ground, never ever on the ground of just saying Im sorry and all that. You dont know God

And for you to say God doesnt need a reason to forgive people is one of the most unlearned statements a professing believer can make, after Jesus had to come and suffer and die for sins to be forgiven
 
GWH said:
Oh, I meant the phrase originated in a song, "Takes Two to Tango",
which was written and composed in 1952 by Al Hoffman and Dick Manning.
Senior moment; my bad. 👴
In GW try Matt. 23:37.
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The question isn't over whether it takes two to tango. The question is does one of the two parties know how to dance.
 
Roger316 said:
The key verb in Colossians 2:14 is **ἐξαλείφω** (*exaleiphō*), which means “to wipe off, erase, obliterate, remove.” It’s used for wiping ink off a document, erasing a record, or canceling an obligation. It never means “to pay” a debt; it means to make it disappear. Paul’s picture is not of God collecting payment but of God *erasing the record* of what stood against us. The emphasis is on forgiveness — the gracious removal of the charge — not on a transaction being settled.
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Its both, forgivenss and paid a debt. its common even now, you pay off a debt and its forgiven. Jesus came to pay a debt of sin, in Heb 2 17

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
The word behoved is the greek word opheilō:
  1. to owe
    1. to owe money, be in debt for
      1. that which is due, the debt

The debt was for the sins of the people He came to make reconciliation for
 
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