Replacement theology? Yes or No.

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From a purely Kingdom of God perspective we should be neither pro- nor anti- Israel. The relevance they have today is that God works where people are looking. The natural nation of Israel is simply not our business. Jews and Arabs and Persians all need Christ.

Consider: If you prefer one group over another because of their nationality, you are racist. You may also be held liable, by God, for preventing the salvation of those from the other groups.
 
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From a purely Kingdom of God perspective we should be neither pro- nor anti- Israel. The relevance they have today is that God works where people are looking. The natural nation of Israel is simply not our business. Jews and Arabs and Persians all need Christ.

Consider: If you prefer one group over another because of their nationality, you are racist. You may also be held liable, by God, for preventing the salvation of those from the other groups.
What if one receive millions of donations to one s church, one s campaign to promote isreal state?

One love both Jesus and money, and status..... tough choice...
 
Yes. Since the price of righteousness was paid "from the foundation of the earth" by our High Priest, Christ, one may simply operate in the covenant to receive the imputation. "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness". In short, Abraham was a son of God, his Father. "For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself does".

Sorry, but I need to know for sure what you're your saying.:) If I'm understanding you correctly, that is the standard for Calvinists these days, and I disagree with it. But no need to get into that if that's not what you believe.

So, are you saying that Abraham was credited, he was actually imputed with the righteousness of God at that moment?

In other words, since the Lamb was slain from the foundations of the world, it can apply, imputed to Abraham, when he believed, just like it is for us today?

If that's what you're saying?
 
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In their future, not ours, written to them.

Audience relevance.

Do you hear the radio silence from the historicists and replacement theology crowd upon confronting this prima facie evidence?

So do I.
 
From a purely Kingdom of God perspective we should be neither pro- nor anti- Israel. The relevance they have today is that God works where people are looking. The natural nation of Israel is simply not our business. Jews and Arabs and Persians all need Christ.

Consider: If you prefer one group over another because of their nationality, you are racist. You may also be held liable, by God, for preventing the salvation of those from the other groups.
Denying (without biblical support) the certain RESTORATION of the Nation Israel (this accord to God's gracious plan) seems all too anti-Semitic for my taste.
 
Denying (without biblical support) the certain RESTORATION of the Nation Israel (this accord to God's gracious plan) seems all too anti-Semitic for my taste.
People replied hundreds of hundreds of response. You just can't see it.
 
And Christ Jesus is the TRUE vine... He said so. :)
Of course. Then there is the intentinal idiom of the fig tree.

In biblical symbolism, the fig tree frequently serves as an idiom for Israel's national identity, spiritual health, and end-times destiny. Tracing this motif from the Prophets through the Gospels reveals a clear prophetic progression: national privilege, covenant judgment, end-time rebirth, and ultimate kingdom restoration upon true repentance.

1. Old Testament Foundation: Israel as the Fig Tree
Throughout the Hebrew Scriptures, God uses agricultural metaphors—the vine, the olive tree, and the fig tree—to represent Israel's relationship with Him.

* Hosea 9:10: God describes His initial delight in Israel, stating, "I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time."

* Jeremiah 24:1–10: God uses a vision of two baskets of figs to separate the faithful exile remnant ("good figs") whom He promises to restore, from the disobedient rulers ("bad figs") appointed for destruction.

* Joel 2:21–27: Joel connects national repentance with physical restoration, promising that when the people return to God, "the tree bears its fruit; the fig tree and the vine yield their full strength."

2. Jesus' Prophetic Sign: Judgment and Rebirth
Jesus explicitly used the fig tree idiom to signal both near-term judgment and far-term restoration:

* The Barren Fig Tree (Luke 13:6–9): A parable emphasizing divine patience, warning that failure to bear spiritual fruit would lead to being cut down.

* The Cursed Fig Tree (Matthew 21:18–20): By cursing a leaf-covered but fruit-barren fig tree during Passion Week, Jesus symbolically enacted judgment upon hypocritical religious leadership, foreshadowing the temple's destruction in 70 AD and national dispersion.

* The Budding Fig Tree (Matthew 24:32–34): In the Olivet Discourse, Jesus transforms the symbol from judgment to hope: "Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its branches become tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near." Eschewing mere leafiness without fruit, this budding symbolizes the physical rebirth of Israel as a national entity in the end times.

3. Spiritual Repentance and Kingdom Restoration
Scripture clarifies that physical regathering in the land precedes the spiritual rebirth that secures the promised kingdom:

* Zechariah 12:10–13:1: Israel's final restoration occurs when God pours out a "spirit of grace and supplication," causing the nation to mourn over their Messiah ("they will look on Me whom they have pierced"), opening a cleansing fountain for sin.

* Romans 11:25–27: Paul confirms that Israel's partial hardening is temporary until the "fullness of the Gentiles has come in," after which "all Israel will be saved" through covenant redemption.

* Kingdom Peace (Micah 4:4, Zechariah 3:10): The prophetic vision of the Millennium concludes with every person sitting "under his vine and under his fig tree"—the ultimate biblical idiom for security, blessing, and peace under
Messiah's rule.
 
A quote from a post made by me from another thread.

This is how I see this whole covenant theology vs. dispensationalism debate these days. I'll admit up from, I'm not as well understood in the covenant details as some, but we really don't need to be to see these simple truths.

Calvinism, and their TULIP, must defend at all costs the idea that God deals with people the same in the OT and He does in the NT, other wise they have to face all the scripture that clearly discredits that idea. So what they have done is highjacked covenant theology, and presented it as a half truth, pitting it again dispensationalism (the other half), and always added to that dispensationalism is the greatest possible context so they can attack the fringes.

You see, the Old and New Testaments are dispensations by definition, and when understood correctly, the Covenants and dispensations are not hostile to each other, but work in harmony. God does deal with people differently from the OT to the NT, and those two dispensations are qualified by the covenant promises made and covenant promises received.

The Lamb slain from the foundations of the world argument is so misused that it baffles my mind. It's just speaking of an eternal decree.

1 Peter 1:19-20 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you

Acts 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death;

By claiming it's a reality from the foundations of the world, your basically using it to administer theological relativism. It makes every time sensitive passage mean nothing. Yet another slight of hand to protect TULIP, as as a result, protect the false idea that God always dealt with people the same way in the OT and NT.

I can destroy that idea that God deals with people the same in both the OT and the NT with one verse.

Hebrews 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.

Hebrews 8:13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

What you're doing is called reverse engineering. Your foundation is that you believe the TULIP system is right and then you try to define Scripture with that. Your arguing from a Catholic theology and not even realizing it.

Nobody was placed into Christ until Pentecost. Nobody is born again until they are placed into Christ. Only after the death resurrection and ascension.

I'm not trying to insult anyone. I still believe that most Arminians are driven by humanism when interpreting Scripture. But I never imagined that trying to reason with Calvinists is actually worse. Just replace the Arminian humanism with the Tulip system. It's like trying to tell the Manson family member that Charlie is lying to them. They just do not want to see it. They only see things through what Charlie tells them.

All I can tell you is that you have to be able to see Scripture away from the TULIP system to see the true Biblical context. TULIP is Catholicism/reformed arguing with Traditional Catholicism. Neither is Biblical.
 
A quote from a post made by me from another thread.
"You see, the Old and New Testaments are dispensations by definition, and when understood correctly, the Covenants and dispensations are not hostile to each other, but work in harmony. God does deal with people differently from the OT to the NT, and those two dispensations are qualified by the covenant promises made and covenant promises received."

How can anyone can deny the fact of this matter?
Extreme prejudice comes to mind. Among other nefarious motives.
 
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A quote from a post made by me from another thread.
[Act 15:14-17 KJV]
14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

James recognizes that the Gentiles have (and are), in the present CHURCH AGE, being saved by faith as they are.

15 And to this ***agree*** the words of the prophets; as it is written,

16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

James then exegetes Amos 9 to DEMONSTATE that in the MILLENIAL AGE, there will LIKEWISE be Gentiles who will be saved.

This is his argument: the present phenomenon is NOT unprecedented, rather it concatenates with this future prophecy.
 
Sorry, but I need to know for sure what you're your saying.:) If I'm understanding you correctly, that is the standard for Calvinists these days, and I disagree with it. But no need to get into that if that's not what you believe.

So, are you saying that Abraham was credited, he was actually imputed with the righteousness of God at that moment?

In other words, since the Lamb was slain from the foundations of the world, it can apply, imputed to Abraham, when he believed, just like it is for us today?

If that's what you're saying?
Oh, I’m not a Calvinist either. Men’s spirits belong to God who gave them. Every man and woman has a spirit, an endowment of God’s being, in them. It is what God breathed into Adam and made him a “living being”. But man’s spirit becomes the sources of his life only by the empowerment of the Holy Spirit. This is called “being found”.

The rub is that man may, in his own strength, resist God and prevent this empowerment. In that state, man remains “lost”. The reason man may not take credit for his own salvation is that God created the spirit in man that can respond to God: indeed man’s spirit is of God’s spirit.

So no, Calvin got it wrong. He was influenced by the idea that reason was the highest level of mindfulness and, as such, could not get out of his own head.

What you see with Abraham is no resistance. He believed. “Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God”. God spoke to him and he believed, he did not resist “and it was credited to him as righteousness”. He was a son following his father, like Adam at first and ultimately like the Word (Christ) and the Deep (God): God the Father and the only Begotten Son. This is what we are restored to in Christ.
 
Revelations 18 pertains to the Whore of Babylon which Israel is not!

The Whore of Babylon is old covenant Jerusalem.

Revelations 11:8 8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the GREAT CITY, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

The city is Jerusalem, and she is on trial for adultery before God.
The two witnesses are present in accordance with the law, and are given the signs of Moses.

Revelation 14:8
And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that GREAT CITY, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

Jerusalem, which was also the murder capitol of the world of saints and prophets, is found guilty and executed.
It was customary (by the Romans) to write the title of the accused and the crime in capitol letters over the head of one sentences to death.
Jesus was crucified under the sign: "JESUS OF NAZARETH KING OF THE JEWS".
Jerusalem was seen with the sign: MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

It was foretold throughout the Bible that this would be the fate of Jerusalem.

Mathew 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

The woman in Revelations 12 is not any earthly nation, but the Hebrew early church.
The chapter takes us back in time to tell the story.
Paul wrote Romans 11 before the destruction of Jerusalem, and speaks of a remnant of his kinsmen that will be part of this church.
He says nothing that indicates that he has hope for the earthly nation.
 
The preacher is Dr James Tour. He is a brilliant scientist, a fervent evangelist and knowledgeable about Israel's place in God's plan and purpose. It is quite long, but well worth hearing. Replacement people don't listen. You will have to change your minds if you do.

There's a lot of negative criticism of James Tour. I suggest readers thoroughly vet him before taking him at his word.



As far as RT goes,it's misunderstanding of Scripture.

Christians haven't replaced the Jews in the heart of God. The church is the spiritual continuation and fulfillment of Old Testament Israel.

Galatians 3
 
There's a lot of negative criticism of James Tour. I suggest readers thoroughly vet him before taking him at his word.



As far as RT goes,it's misunderstanding of Scripture.

Christians haven't replaced the Jews in the heart of God. The church is the spiritual continuation and fulfillment of Old Testament Israel.

Galatians 3
How can church replace jews?

In ot, many jews bow down to baal, pagan worship....
Maybe fake church replaced them?

Very confusing. People keep saying replacement. What replace what?