God swore an oath and gave the land to the Jews. Period. Everlasting and unconditional. Fighting it won't change God's promises which He will keep.
Nope. That's not what the Bible says. We want to be blessed, then we need to bless Israel.
Replacement theology? Yes or No.
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God swore an oath and gave the land to the Jews. Period. Everlasting and unconditional. Fighting it won't change God's promises which He will keep.
Nope. That's not what the Bible says. We want to be blessed, then we need to bless Israel.
Exodus 19:5-6 KJV
Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: [6] and ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. "
Truly obedience to his word is what identifies his people. But yes in the old testament before chrost came offering the holy ghost and spiritual birth....flesh and blood is how the children of Israel ( Jacob ) were identified rather than through faith in christ or receiving the gift of the holy ghost or being born again
even as the flesh and blood children of Israel rebelled continuously he gave them the identity of his people.
My point was .There was a time our family blood line mattered under this promise made to Abram the Hebrew descendant of Noah through the blessed son shem .
Genesis 15:18-21 KJV
[18] In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates: [19] the Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites, [20] and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims, [21] and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the jebusites."
So you had chosen people based on the flesh ide city of Abram the Hebrew. Amd others cursed based on the actions of hamm the cursed son . His descendants were dofferent to God based on tbier flesh and blood from shems descendants which Abram the faithful friend of God came forth from .
but it no longer makes me God's person because I descended from Abrams flesh and blood in the new testament.
the flesh that matters is Jesus flesh and his blood truly a descendant of abraham the father of many nations. Now a person born of African or Asian or European ect descendants of Japeth and even descendants of Canaans flesh and blood line can accept christ and be. Orn to God through his holy spirit and the identity of Jesus Christ's body and blood ( Abraham's son ) the son of God
"God swore an oath and gave the land to the Jews. Period. Everlasting and unconditional. Fighting it won't change God's promises which He will keep."
Indeed he will keep his word about this land
2 Peter 3:10-13 KJV
[10] But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. [11] Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, [12] looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? ( once we accept tbat we can accept this) Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness."
Thier land was given to Israel forever and then it was cursed to be destroyed with them because of thier sin and constant worship of other gods .....then later he promised a new world to come for all. Believers regardless of thier flesh .....
People waiting for this worlds order to be restored are missing the new testament amd also what actually happened to Israel in the old
I was setting out the arguments that they use to show their stance. But before I could finish, you were already attacking it with a rather gruff attitude. Never got to finish what I was setting up.
"God has not yet finished with the nation of Israel. "
He's not done with any of creation yet
"If Israel no longer matters to God"
I've never made that argument....everyone matters to god equally
"God will use ethnic Israelites, 12,000 from each tribe, to finish the work that the church has failed to do. Those 144,000 will be martyred. It will be a bit tricky for God to use those young men if there are no Israelites."
Yeah I mean that's one theory that's equal to anyone else's regarding the 144000. I don't agree but it's just as valid as anyone else's opinion
However, that does not mean that they "do not exist. We have not yet seen God's kingdom on earth in all its fullness. Jesus will rule and reign from Jerusalem."
Yeah your just looking at the wrong Jerusalem the wrong earth and land ....and the reason is youe looking at the wrong covenant promises to a people who broke tbier covenant and became cursed by it and also cursed the earth along with it ....
Matthew 21:43 KJVYeah I mean that's one theory that's equal to anyone else's regarding the 144000. I don't agree but it's just as valid as anyone else's opinion
However, that does not mean that they "do not exist. We have not yet seen God's kingdom on earth in all its fullness. Jesus will rule and reign from Jerusalem."
Yeah your just looking at the wrong Jerusalem the wrong earth and land ....and the reason is youe looking at the wrong covenant promises to a people who broke tbier covenant and became cursed by it and also cursed the earth along with it ....
" Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
To be clear though any isralite who repents and accept Jesus chrsot shall be saved the same exact way as any person who repents and accepts Jesus shall be
This is my argument if you want to argue against it the testament have changed it doesn't matter if someone is a. Isralite or African to God .the only factor for any human being is Jesus christ and thier faith in him .
if we were u Der the old covenant of course it would.matter if we were of isrwels tribes .....we are to though israel.broke thier covenant and cursed the earth ........we havw a new one together with them as one people .....
Seems like a pretty basic message . I'm not sure what you are hearing lol but what I'm saying si.ple and basic everyone is the same to God all sinners in need of salvation and there's one way for everyone
Note: The final signs include the great tribulation, cosmic disturbances, Christ’s visible return, and the gathering of His elect—events not all fulfilled in the first century (Matthew 24:21, 29–31).
Once these signs begin, the remaining events will happen rapidly: the tribulation days will be shortened, Christ will appear “immediately after” them, and redemption will be near (Matthew 24:22, 29; Luke 21:28–32). Therefore, Jesus’ promise is that the generation witnessing the final sequence begin will not pass away before it is completed. The exact day remains unknown, so believers must watch and remain ready (Matthew 24:36, 42)."
Yes and he delivered them into thier land ....they ignored his words too
Exodus 19:5-6 KJV
[5] Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: and ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel."
Deuteronomy 11:13, 17, 26-29 KJV
[13] And it shall come to pass, if ye shall hearken diligently unto my commandments which I command you this day, to love the LORD your God, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul,
[17] and then the LORD's wrath be kindled against you, and he shut up the heaven, that there be no rain, and that the land yield not her fruit; and lest ye perish quickly from off the good land which the LORD giveth you.
[26] Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse; [27] a blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day: [28] and a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known. [29] And it shall come to pass, when the LORD thy God hath brought thee in unto the land whither thou goest to possess it, that thou shalt put the blessing upon mount Gerizim, and the curse upon mount Ebal.
Deuteronomy 4:25-27 KJV
When thou shalt beget children, and children's children, and ye shall have remained long in the land, and shall corrupt yourselves, and make a graven image, or the likeness of any thing, and shall do evil in the sight of the LORD thy God, to provoke him to anger: [26] I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that ye shall soon utterly perish from off the land whereunto ye go over Jordan to possess it; ye shall not prolong your days upon it, but shall utterly be destroyed. [27] And the LORD shall scatter you among the nations, and ye shall be left few in number among the heathen, whither the LORD shall send thee.
"It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is." I used to despise Bill Clinton for his twisting of the obvious meaning of the question. But little did I know the same twisting of meaning was (and still is to this day) a crucial component of Dispensationalist theology.
In effect, to redefine "this generation" to mean "that generation in 2000 years time". Crazy and tragic. And the cause of great evil.
Here let me help you:
The true location of the Temple is presently in the City of David, Israeli territory. Archaeological digs are ongoing.
I didn't get to finish. I had more, Quotes to add then I was going to show where scripture rejects such things. But as I said. I got attacked and I felt I needed to address that before continuing. Then, well, you were there lol.
I can't apply classroom tactics in a chat room. You don't have time for the setup before the slapping beginsYou scared me there for a moment! Thank you for clarifying.
Here let me help you by providing this chunk of Scripture:
Feel free to read any chapter in this glorious grouping of the 60's.
Isaiah 62 ► |
Zion's Salvation and New Name 1For Zion's sake will I not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest, until the righteousness thereof go forth as brightness, and the salvation thereof as a lamp that burneth.
2And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name. 3Thou shalt also be a crown of glory in the hand of the LORD, and a royal diadem in the hand of thy God. 4Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzibah, and thy land Beulah: for the LORD delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married. 5For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee. 6I have set watchmen upon thy walls, O Jerusalem, which shall never hold their peace day nor night: ye that make mention of the LORD, keep not silence, 7And give him no rest, till he establish, and till he make Jerusalem a praise in the earth. 8The LORD hath sworn by his right hand, and by the arm of his strength, Surely I will no more give thy corn to be meat for thine enemies; and the sons of the stranger shall not drink thy wine, for the which thou hast laboured: 9But they that have gathered it shall eat it, and praise the LORD; and they that have brought it together shall drink it in the courts of my holiness. 10Go through, go through the gates; prepare ye the way of the people; cast up, cast up the highway; gather out the stones; lift up a standard for the people. 11Behold, the LORD hath proclaimed unto the end of the world, Say ye to the daughter of Zion, Behold, thy salvation cometh; behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him. 12And they shall call them, The holy people, The redeemed of the LORD: and thou shalt be called, Sought out, A city not forsaken. |
Here let me help you:
The rules of Greek grammar in context here are impeccably clear.
The End-Time Generation (Contextual Futurism)
This is the dominant view among modern futurist and premillennial scholars. It argues that “this generation” does not mean Jesus’ generation, but rather the specific future generation that witnesses the events He just described.
The Grammar of "This" (hautē):
The user’s premise states that Jesus used "this" (hautē) instead of "that" (ekeinē). However, in Greek grammar, a demonstrative pronoun ("this") points to the nearest contextual antecedent.
In Matthew 24:32–33, Jesus uses the parable of the fig tree: "When you see all these things, you know that it is near..."
Therefore, "this" generation refers contextually to the generation just introduced in the preceding sentence—the generation living when the leaves of the fig tree bud.
That's not how the first disciples understood this prophecy. I accept the plain meaning of Jesus' words, as did they (and were spared from the destruction of the unbelievers in Jerusalem). If you want to reinterpret, that's on you, but those who reinterpreted it in those days would have been amongst the slain who died in unbelief in Jerusalem.
Matthew 24: 15 - 20
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )
Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
"It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is." I used to despise Bill Clinton for his twisting of the obvious meaning of the question. But little did I know the same twisting of meaning was (and still is to this day) a crucial component of Dispensationalist theology.
In effect, to redefine "this generation" to mean "that generation in 2000 years time". Crazy and tragic. And the cause of great evil.
You’re pointing to something real:
When theology must bend language to preserve a system,it becomes capable of:
spiritual abuse
prophetic manipulation
false urgency
false timelines
false promises
false fear
false hope
This is not unique to Dispensationalism. It is the danger of any system that demands loyalty to itself rather than to the text.
But the solution is not to reject Paul’s Jew/Gentile grammar.
The solution is to return to the plain meaning of Scripture, even when it cuts across our assumptions.
Let me state this with academic clarity:
In effect, to redefine "this generation" to mean "that generation in 2000 years time". Crazy and tragic. And the cause of great evil.
You’re pointing to something real:
When theology must bend language to preserve a system,it becomes capable of:
spiritual abuse
prophetic manipulation
false urgency
false timelines
false promises
false fear
false hope
This is not unique to Dispensationalism. It is the danger of any system that demands loyalty to itself rather than to the text.
But the solution is not to reject Paul’s Jew/Gentile grammar.
The solution is to return to the plain meaning of Scripture, even when it cuts across our assumptions.
Let me state this with academic clarity:
You are correct:
- Dispensationalism often twists plain language.
- “This generation” never means “a future generation.”
- Semantic distortion is dangerous.
- Gentiles were universally excluded from covenant access.
- Jesus affirmed this pre-cross structure.
You are incorrect:
- That Paul’s Jew/Gentile grammar is dispensational.
- That rejecting dispensational semantics requires rejecting Paul’s covenantal distinctions.
- That Gentile inclusion in Christ erases the old covenant structure.
If Jesus' words were for that generation (as the text reads), there is no need (or justification) for reinterpreting scripture to conclude a future focus on ethnic or religious Jews (aka Dispensationalism). Jesus message was to the (believing) Jews, who became the Church (the gospel was first to the Jew, then to the Gentile). Jews and Gentiles are now one in Christ Jesus - the Church, the true Jews, and the Israel of God (different phrases - same people).
