Replacement theology? Yes or No.

[Churchgoer]

Yes anything God chose to or planned to do from the beginning is not for me to say he’s wrong ….. I’d never say god was wrong for any part of his plan. I personally just don’t believe that’s what he said like even just the one example there it’s telling us that being born a physical israelite doesn’t make you an isralite , but rather those who are born again by the promise of Christ and the gospel are who are counted for the seed.. not the physical or flesh and blood , but to receive the spirit of Christ ehonis the one seed of promise and hier of Abraham.


If an Israelite rejects Jesus they are
No different from a gentile who rejects Jesus . And if a gentile accepts Jesus they are the same fanily and blood through his blood and not thiers flesh and blood but his flesh and blood

“Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

….For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, ( physical flesh and blood no longer matters ) there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. ( Abraham’s one seed of promise ) And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:16, 27-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if a Jew rejects Jesus or gentile rejects Jesus there’s no difference because thier flesh and blood doesn’t make them different but the same all are under sin israel as well as gentile . They aren’t special because of who thier owrents are anymore no one is. We’re all equal in his sight now

“But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:11-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s faith in Christ alone that makes anyone an hier of the promises he made to Abraham.

this wasn’t the case in the ot but because they broke thier covenant he made a new covenant in Christ with any of those of Israel who believed then now or forever the gospel . As well as and together with any gentile who believed then now or forever.

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭4:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Notice Jesus spoke also of this prophecy regarding the stone the builders rejected ? He says this when he’s telling isreel

“Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, The same is become the head of the corner: This is the Lord's doing, And it is marvellous in our eyes? Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭21:42-43‬ ‭KJV‬


There’s nothing wrong with being an Israelite by the flesh or being a gentile by the flesh we’re all corrupted and sinners alike . Pop He chose to offer mercy to all mankind through Christ and the gospel israel had a different covenant beforehand according to thier flesh and blood and thier own righteousness it didn’t work out so he made a new one and made it with everyone

flesh and blood or nationality is no longer how gods people are identified

"flesh and blood or nationality is no longer how gods people are identified"

No longer? Did God ever?

 

[Gideon300]

It’s strange no one connects being “ born again “ to becoming a new person with a new identity in Gods sight no longer “ gentile or Jew “ but rather the children of the living God born anew in Christ Jesus

No one seems to think about the language Paul uses so often and connect it to that New creation in Christ Jesus you’re referring to

the old has to be left behind in order for the new to emerge it’s the old testament that blinds to the new

God has not yet finished with the nation of Israel. If Israel no longer matters to God, the book of Revelation makes no sense. Your generalisation that "no one" connects being born again to becoming a new person in Christ is false. You assume that everyone who speaks about literal Israel is talking about individual Israelis.

God will use ethnic Israelites, 12,000 from each tribe, to finish the work that the church has failed to do. Those 144,000 will be martyred. It will be a bit tricky for God to use those young men if there are no Israelites.

You can be a Christian who is English (like me), A Christian who is American or any other nationality. Those distinctions are irrelevant in God's kingdom. However, that does not mean that they do not exist. We have not yet seen God's kingdom on earth in all its fullness. Jesus will rule and reign from Jerusalem. That is not my idea. If it bothers you, take it up with God.​

 

[Beekeeper]

God has not yet finished with the nation of Israel. If Israel no longer matters to God, the book of Revelation makes no sense. Your generalisation that "no one" connects being born again to becoming a new person in Christ is false. You assume that everyone who speaks about literal Israel is talking about individual Israelis.

God will use ethnic Israelites, 12,000 from each tribe, to finish the work that the church has failed to do. Those 144,000 will be martyred. It will be a bit tricky for God to use those young men if there are no Israelites.

You can be a Christian who is English (like me), A Christian who is American or any other nationality. Those distinctions are irrelevant in God's kingdom. However, that does not mean that they do not exist. We have not yet seen God's kingdom on earth in all its fullness. Jesus will rule and reign from Jerusalem. That is not my idea. If it bothers you, take it up with God.​

Is God still keeping people bound to the law of Moses?
If not, old covenant national Israel no longer exists in the eyes of God.
God has made a new covenant with the house of Israel, and it does not involve an earthly nation.
The book of Revelations makes sense because most of it is about Gods destruction of that earthly nation.

Deuteronomy 28:63
And it shall come to pass, that as the Lord rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the Lord will rejoice over you to destroy you, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goest to possess it.

Revelations 18:20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

 

[Beekeeper]

Why Zionism is great!

 

[Churchgoer]

Why Zionism is great!

Time for true Christians to seek Jesus, and Jesus only.
Stop worshipping the golden calf.

 

[Churchgoer]

To op, God's chosen children are whoever in the blood covenant with Jesus.

Not anyone in a blood covenant with Abraham, jacob....Abraham didn't die for other s sins. Even if he did, it will be useless.

Who replaced Jesus with Abraham, Jacob....? I say stay clear away from this replacement theory, so so so bad!!!

 

[dkontner]

My take... Jesus is faith. He brought the kingdom. The OT saints (remnant) where saved by faith when Jesus preached in the heart of the earth. They haven't received there new bodies yet. Jesus rose from the dead and saves NT saints via His spirit, ye must be born again, and therefore we are saved through faith. The OT saints didn't receive the promise, we do. But, there is only ONE body and ONE savior.

Ephesians 2​

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

[HeIsHere]

Saying Darby "invented" dispensationalism is like saying Isaac Newton "invented" gravity; gravity was always operating, but Newton was the one who formulated the mathematical framework to describe it. For the dispensationalist, Darby simply systematized what Jesus, Paul, and the prophets had already laid out in the text of Holy Scripture.

Well since we have Darby on par with Newton (lol) we should also pay tribute to Hal Lindsey's and his blockbuster 'The Late Great Planet Earth.'
Let us see how many hermeneutical principles are denied by following Hal Lindsey.

1) Apply original audience relevance. (denied)
2) Honor/Follow the “time statements” in the bible. (denied)
3) Recognize the old testament metaphoric and symbolic language in the new testament, and interpret that language consistently when the contexts are the same or similar. (applied and denied depending on if it supports the system)

4) Jesus and the NT writers are the inspired and infallible interpreters of what the OT prophets actually predicted. (mostly denied)

Verses 15-16 of Mathew 4 are a direct quotation of Isaiah 9:1-2. However, the context of Isaiah 9:1-2 is the restoration of the northern kingdom of Israel and the establishment of the Davidic kingdom (Isaiah 9:6-7). Therefore, when Jesus says “This was to fulfill what was spoken through Isaiah the prophet”, and then quotes Isaiah 9:1-2, Jesus is telling his disciples (and us) that by preaching the gospel in the regions of Galilee, he was beginning to restore the scattered nation of Israel into their promised Davidic kingdom.
Jesus clearly interprets the restoration of Isaiah 9 spiritually – Israel was being restored in Him through the gospel – and we must honor his inspired interpretation.

Link

5) Be consistent with all biblical hermeneutics. (EPIC FAIL of Dispensationalism which is inconsistent and often avoids the rules)

There are not two groups there is ONE group, and the ekklesia is found in the OT and carries on into the NT.

 

[HeIsHere]

To op, God's chosen children are whoever in the blood covenant with Jesus.

Not anyone in a blood covenant with Abraham, jacob....Abraham didn't die for other s sins. Even if he did, it will be useless.

Who replaced Jesus with Abraham, Jacob....? I say stay clear away from this replacement theory, so so so bad!!!

Dispensationalism is the real replacement theory .. far worse because they deny the completed work of Christ Jesus.

 

[cv5]

Dispensationalism is the real replacement theory .. far worse because they deny the completed work of Christ Jesus.

Completed you say? A patently false assertion.

James’s wording ***preserves*** rather than destroys the distinction between the present Church Age and Israel’s future kingdom:

“Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.”

That is God’s present work: taking from among the Gentiles a people for His name.

James then quotes:

“After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down.”

The present Gentile ingathering is not called the rebuilding of David’s tabernacle. The two works are distinguished. God is presently gathering a people from among the Gentiles; ***afterward*** comes the restoration of the fallen Davidic order. The Church does not become David’s kingdom merely because both Jews and Gentiles receive salvation.

 

[cv5]

Dispensationalism is the real replacement theory .. far worse because they deny the completed work of Christ Jesus.

Completed you say? A patently false assertion.

Explain if you can these crucial UNTIL statements.

Act 1:11
Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Act 3:21
Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Luk 13:35
Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Luk 21:24
And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Rom 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

"that blindness in part is happened to Israel" in context (including countless prophecies) MUST be speaking to unbelieving ethnic national Jews of that era. Who will CERTAINLY believe only when the UNTIL time boundary has been concluded.

 

[HeIsHere]

Completed you say? A patently false assertion.

Explain if you can these crucial UNTIL statements.

Act 1:11
Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Act 3:21
Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Luk 13:35
Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Luk 21:24
And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Rom 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

"that blindness in part is happened to Israel" in context (including countless prophecies) MUST be speaking to unbelieving ethnic national Jews of that era. Who will CERTAINLY believe only when the UNTIL time boundary has been concluded.

Audience relevance.

 

[Churchgoer]

When we read Bible, we should read it as a complete story, not bits and pieces.
Do not take bits and pieces and create another idol.

David's kingdom? Since when David becomes anyone s Lord and savior?

Who is the king of kings? Lord of lords?

Hey, yah yah.....

 

[dkontner]

When we read Bible, we should read it as a complete story, not bits and pieces.
Do not take bits and pieces and create another idol.

David's kingdom? Since when David becomes anyone s Lord and savior?

Who is the king of kings? Lord of lords?

Hey, yah yah.....

A complete story that is playing out right in front of our eyes. God bless

Ecclesiastes 1​

9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

 

[HeIsHere]

Completed you say? A patently false assertion.

James’s wording ***preserves*** rather than destroys the distinction between the present Church Age and Israel’s future kingdom:


That is God’s present work: taking from among the Gentiles a people for His name.

James then quotes:


The present Gentile ingathering is not called the rebuilding of David’s tabernacle. The two works are distinguished. God is presently gathering a people from among the Gentiles; ***afterward*** comes the restoration of the fallen Davidic order. The Church does not become David’s kingdom merely because both Jews and Gentiles receive salvation.

Two people's is so indoctrinated into your mind you cannot see there has always only been one people >>> those who believed of the future messiah and those who believe when the promise arrived and He fulfilled it all.

 

[Churchgoer]

Two people's is so indoctrinated into your mind you cannot see there has always only been one people >>> those who believed of the future messiah and those who believe when the promise arrived and He fulfilled it all.

Absolutely!!!!
You nail it!!!
God centered!!!!
From beginning to end!!!!

 

[dkontner]

John 10​

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

 

[Dave123]

The preacher is Dr James Tour. He is a brilliant scientist, a fervent evangelist and knowledgeable about Israel's place in God's plan and purpose. It is quite long, but well worth hearing. Replacement people don't listen. You will have to change your minds if you do.

Jesus was always the plan. He is also the Church. How did He replace something?

The promises of the OT were made in type, but always pointed to spiritual reality.

You might want to ask... will God honor those promises in type that were made in type, even though they pointed to spiritual truth?

In short, Jesus didn't replace, He fulfilled. Jesus is the Antitype.

You might want to ask... was there always a spiritual Israel (Romans 9:6)?

 

[Aaron56]

Is God still keeping people bound to the law of Moses?
If not, old covenant national Israel no longer exists in the eyes of God.
God has made a new covenant with the house of Israel, and it does not involve an earthly nation.
The book of Revelations makes sense because most of it is about Gods destruction of that earthly nation.

Deuteronomy 28:63
And it shall come to pass, that as the Lord rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the Lord will rejoice over you to destroy you, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goest to possess it.

Revelations 18:20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

Right. The old covenant would require the existence of the Levitical priesthood. The Sinai Law could not annul the promises God gave to Abraham. God swore by Himself to ratify the covenant. It required no participation of man to vest for the benefit of man.

 

[Aaron56]

Jesus was always the plan. He is also the Church. How did He replace something?

The promises of the OT were made in type, but always pointed to spiritual reality.

You might want to ask... will God honor those promises in type that were made in type, even though they pointed to spiritual truth?

In short, Jesus didn't replace, He fulfilled. Jesus is the Antitype.

You might want to ask... was there always a spiritual Israel (Romans 9:6)?

Right. The Law of God, before Sinai, was simply "Believe what I tell you". Adam walked with God. As did Abel, Seth, Enosh, Enoch, Noah, etc. Abraham believed God and was found righteous in God's eyes for doing so. Shem was likely Melchizedeck, "Priest of God Most High", who blessed Abraham after the battle of the kings. To demonstrate the supremacy of the priestly order of Melchizedek, we are told that Levi tithed to Melchizedek while in Abraham's loins. This is counter to the Old Covenant law permitting only the Levites to receive tithes. The law at Sinai has no authority over the Law ratified in Christ from the foundation of the world. Indeed, like John the Baptist said “He must increase, but I must decrease."