Replacement theology? Yes or No.

[cv5]

This could get fun.

Its never fun unless you have all of the right answers.
But I'm definitely having fun.....

Jer 31:31 - Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Jer 31:32
Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

Jer 31:33
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Jer 31:35
Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:

Jer 31:36
If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

 

[cv5]

Indeed, Jeremiah 31 itself makes it impossible to reduce this prophecy merely to saved Jews during the Church age. The context is explicitly corporate, national, covenantal, territorial, and eschatological.

Saved Jews today certainly participate in New-Covenant blessings through Christ, but they do not exhaust Jeremiah’s promised fulfillment to “the house of Israel and the house of Judah.”

1. The covenant is explicitly made with Israel and Judah​

Jeremiah 31:31 says:

“I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah.”

Verse 32 identifies these people historically:

“Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt…”

The recipients of the future covenant are organically continuous with the nation brought out of Egypt.

The antecedent is historical Israel.

2. The chapter is about national restoration​

Jeremiah 31:1:

“I will be the God of all the families of Israel, and they shall be my people.”

Jeremiah 31:8:

“I will bring them from the north country, and gather them from the coasts of the earth…”

Jeremiah 31:10:

“He that scattered Israel will gather him…”

The sequence is:

dispersion → regathering → cleansing → covenant renewal → restoration.

That is much broader than individual Jews becoming Christians during the Church age.

3. Jeremiah places the New Covenant inside this national-restoration context​

Jeremiah 31:27 speaks of:

“the house of Israel and the house of Judah”

Then verses 28–30 describe the reversal of Israel’s former judgment.

Only then does Jeremiah announce:

“Behold, the days come… that I will make a new covenant…”

So Jeremiah 31:31–34 is not an isolated theological paragraph. It is the spiritual centerpiece of a prophecy concerning Israel’s restoration after judgment and dispersion.

4. God immediately guarantees Israel’s continued national existence​

This may be the strongest argument.

Immediately after the New Covenant prophecy, God says:

Jeremiah 31:35–36

“If those ordinances depart from before me… then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.”

Notice the word:

NATION.

Not merely “believers.”

Not merely individual descendants of Abraham.

God explicitly guarantees the continuing existence of Israel as a nation.

Verse 37 reinforces it:

“If heaven above can be measured… I will also cast off all the seed of Israel…”

In other words, Israel’s national covenantal identity is as secure as the created order.

5. The prophecy immediately becomes geographical​

Jeremiah 31:38–40 describes Jerusalem being rebuilt and names specific locations:

• Tower of Hananeel
• Corner Gate
• Gareb
• Goath
• Kidron
• Horse Gate

The conclusion:

“It shall not be plucked up, nor thrown down any more for ever.”

This is not simply describing Jews joining the Church.

The progression is:

Israel gathered → Israel spiritually transformed → Israel preserved as a nation → Jerusalem restored.

6. Jeremiah 32 repeats the same promise and explicitly adds the land​

Jeremiah 32:37:

“I will gather them out of all countries…”

Verse 38:

“They shall be my people, and I will be their God.”

Verse 40:

“I will make an everlasting covenant with them…”

Then verse 41:

“I will plant them in this land assuredly with my whole heart and with my whole soul.”

So Jeremiah directly connects:

regathering + regeneration + everlasting covenant + restoration to the land.

That cannot naturally be reduced to Jewish Christians scattered throughout the Church age.

7. Ezekiel gives the same sequence​

Ezekiel 36:24:

“I will gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land.”

Then:

“A new heart also will I give you…”

“I will put my spirit within you…”

And finally:

“Ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers.”

Again:

land restoration → cleansing → regeneration → covenant relationship.

Ezekiel 37 culminates with:

“I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant…”

The prophetic pattern is consistent.

8. Romans 11 distinguishes the present Jewish remnant from future Israel​

Paul explicitly identifies Jewish believers in the present age as a remnant:

Romans 11:5

“At this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.”

But later:

Romans 11:25

“Blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.”

Then:

Romans 11:26

“And so all Israel shall be saved…”

That distinction is crucial:

present: a believing Jewish remnant
future: “all Israel”

Paul then quotes covenantal restoration language:

“For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.”

This strongly connects Romans 11 with Jeremiah’s New Covenant promise.

9. Zechariah describes the future national repentance​

Zechariah 12:10:

“I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications…”

They:

“shall look upon me whom they have pierced…”

The prophecy then identifies whole houses and families mourning.

This is not merely isolated Jewish conversions over two thousand years. It is a corporate national repentance centered on Jerusalem.

Zechariah 13:1 then says:

“There shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.”

That corresponds directly to Jeremiah 31:

“I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

10. Jesus also anticipates Israel’s future repentance​

Matthew 23:37:

“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem…”

Verse 38:

“Your house is left unto you desolate.”

But the desolation has an until:

“Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.”

The pattern is:

rejection → desolation → prolonged absence → future recognition of Messiah.

That fits Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Zechariah, and Romans 11.

Inauguration is not the same as complete fulfillment​

Hebrews 8–10 unquestionably teaches that Christ’s death has inaugurated the New Covenant.

Believers today receive forgiveness, regeneration, and the Spirit through Christ’s finished work.

But that does not mean every promise Jeremiah attached to the covenant has already been fulfilled nationally.

In fact Hebrews preserves Jeremiah’s wording:

“I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.”

It does not say:

“with the Church instead of Israel and Judah.”

So the strongest formulation is:

The New Covenant was ratified in Christ’s blood and its spiritual blessings are already enjoyed by believers, including the present Jewish remnant. But Jeremiah 31 predicts a still-future corporate fulfillment in which Israel and Judah experience national repentance, forgiveness, regeneration, regathering, and restoration.

Jeremiah’s own safeguard against eliminating national Israel comes immediately after the covenant promise:

“The seed of Israel… shall [not] cease from being a NATION before me for ever.”
— Jeremiah 31:36

That statement makes it exceedingly difficult to interpret Jeremiah 31 as referring only to saved Jews during the Church age.

 

[Churchgoer]

Its never fun unless you have all of the right answers.
But I'm definitely having fun.....

Jer 31:31 - Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Jer 31:32
Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

Jer 31:33
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Jer 31:35
Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:

Jer 31:36
If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

Who is the seed of Israel?

 

[OMC]

Somebody tell @OMC that God thru Moses brought water out of rocks ROFL.

Oh, and manna from heaven too. And also the shoes and clothes of the Israelites did not wear out.

Deuteronomy 8:4: Moses reminds the Israelites, "Your clothing did not wear out on you, nor did your foot swell these forty years."

Deuteronomy 29:5: God states directly to the people, "I have led you forty years in the wilderness; your clothes have not worn out upon you, and your sandals have not worn off your feet."

Nehemiah 9:21: During a post-exilic prayer recounting God's faithfulness, the Levites state, "Forty years You sustained them in the wilderness so that they lacked nothing; their clothing did not wear out nor did their feet swell."

A little friendly advice: Never trust a RT hack who denies God's power and providence.

Ah yes, thank you for the breaking news bulletin from the Department of Wilderness Miracles, as if the fact God kept Israel’s sandals from blowing out after forty years of desert cardio somehow proves your entire “millennial Amish‑theocracy with zero technology, zero infrastructure, zero nations, zero economy, and universal Gentile farm labor” model; clearly, because God once made clothes last longer than a Walmart T‑shirt, He must therefore abolish electricity, transportation, architecture, metallurgy, commerce, and every nation on earth except Israel — brilliant hermeneutics, truly Pulitzer‑level exegesis; and of course, anyone who doesn’t immediately convert to your agrarian‑Eden‑reset theology is a “RT hack denying God’s providence,” because nothing says “sound doctrine” like weaponizing Deuteronomy to argue Jesus will outlaw plumbing, bulldoze every building, and hand every Gentile a hoe and a burlap tunic; but please, do continue — I’m sure your next proof will be that since God made quail fall from the sky, He obviously intends to cancel all global trade routes in the millennium and replace them with celestial poultry delivery.

 

[Churchgoer]

Ah yes, thank you for the breaking news bulletin from the Department of Wilderness Miracles, as if the fact God kept Israel’s sandals from blowing out after forty years of desert cardio somehow proves your entire “millennial Amish‑theocracy with zero technology, zero infrastructure, zero nations, zero economy, and universal Gentile farm labor” model; clearly, because God once made clothes last longer than a Walmart T‑shirt, He must therefore abolish electricity, transportation, architecture, metallurgy, commerce, and every nation on earth except Israel — brilliant hermeneutics, truly Pulitzer‑level exegesis; and of course, anyone who doesn’t immediately convert to your agrarian‑Eden‑reset theology is a “RT hack denying God’s providence,” because nothing says “sound doctrine” like weaponizing Deuteronomy to argue Jesus will outlaw plumbing, bulldoze every building, and hand every Gentile a hoe and a burlap tunic; but please, do continue — I’m sure your next proof will be that since God made quail fall from the sky, He obviously intends to cancel all global trade routes in the millennium and replace them with celestial poultry delivery.

Note, only 2 people from the cross red sea generation (20 and older) made it cross Jordan river.

 

[Beekeeper]

"The other problem is that now that the law of Moses is fulfilled in Christ, which covenant does both modern and millennial Israel fit under?"

PLEASE tell us that you are kidding.....

Jer 31:31 - Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Futurist dispensationalists batting 1000 as usual.

Read Hebrews 8 and understand Jeremiah 31.

 

[Revelation1v8]

This is my last answer for you, since you cannot show the same courtesy.
The new heavens and new earth is the final, post‑judgment order of reality God brings after the old world‑system of sin, curse, decay, and death is abolished; it is not a different universe, not a replacement planet, but this creation liberated, purged, and transformed so thoroughly that Scripture can speak of the former things as “passed away,” meaning the old order no longer defines existence, and the new order is one where righteousness dwells, God is immediately present with His people, death is gone, sorrow is gone, and the creation finally operates as God intended from the beginning — the eternal state after resurrection, judgment, and the descent of the New Jerusalem. Go work it out for yourself preacher boy. I have no interest in your fantasy.

Got it. You believe that when Jesus returns, all are immediately judged AND then earth becomes Heaven through restoration. I guess Isaiah 65 can just mysteriously pass away too since there's no room for a restored life before Heaven begins in your view. Thank you for finally coughing that up.

 

[Beekeeper]

If heavenly and earthly Jerusalem don't join at some point, what's the point of creating "a new heaven AND a new earth"? If there wasn't something to the earth, it would just tell us that after Jesus returns and all are judged that He would just bring down the "new heaven", but that's not what it says.

I don't think people realize that more than one event can be explained in the same chapter and in some cases, the same verse. I'll use Revelation 7:15 as an example.

Revelation 7:15 - Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

There is no temple, day, or night in heaven. This is going on in the earth. The question that remains is whether it's the current earth or the new earth in Revelation 21. The return of Jesus as being like a thief in the night has always referred to those who are not watching. According to Revelation 20, the first resurrection happens for believers so they can "live and reign with Christ for 1,000 years while Satan sits in the Abyss until he is released for a short while again. AFTERWARDS we have Satan thrown into the Lake of Fire and the Great White Throne Judgement for all the people. The passing of the current heaven and earth must not take place until all of this is done, because then we see Revelation 21 open up to show the new heaven and the new earth.

While Paul's mention of Jeremiah 31 refers to the New Covenant for Gentiles, the Bible tells us that God/Jesus makes a New Covenant with the House of Israel and Judah too in those same verses. It doesn't mean that they all have to happen at the same time. Romans 11 tells us that a remnant of Israel will be grafted back into the Olive Tree and this is where God either makes a completely New Covenant for them or they are just grafted back in to join the New Covenant with the rest of us.

The Abrahamic & Davidic Covenants are unconditional and eternal. Why God/Jesus allows the Mosaic covenant to return may be for reasons that we are not aware of. I think I read something that spelled that out more clearly in the Bible, but I don't remember. I'll have to search it out again and get back to you.

Really you are just telling us that you do not want to believe 2 Peter 3:10.

 

[cv5]

Read Hebrews 8 and understand Jeremiah 31.

Oh but I do understand both chapters perfectly well.
Which is why I am a futurist dispensationalist.

BTW, did you want to chime in on the Matthew 25 sheep and goat NATIONS judgement?
I didn't think so. Nor does any other supersessionist.

 

[cv5]

Ah yes, thank you for the breaking news bulletin from the Department of Wilderness Miracles, as if the fact God kept Israel’s sandals from blowing out after forty years of desert cardio somehow proves your entire “millennial Amish‑theocracy with zero technology, zero infrastructure, zero nations, zero economy, and universal Gentile farm labor” model; clearly, because God once made clothes last longer than a Walmart T‑shirt, He must therefore abolish electricity, transportation, architecture, metallurgy, commerce, and every nation on earth except Israel — brilliant hermeneutics, truly Pulitzer‑level exegesis; and of course, anyone who doesn’t immediately convert to your agrarian‑Eden‑reset theology is a “RT hack denying God’s providence,” because nothing says “sound doctrine” like weaponizing Deuteronomy to argue Jesus will outlaw plumbing, bulldoze every building, and hand every Gentile a hoe and a burlap tunic; but please, do continue — I’m sure your next proof will be that since God made quail fall from the sky, He obviously intends to cancel all global trade routes in the millennium and replace them with celestial poultry delivery.

So what you are really telling us that you are feeling frustrated and utterly defeated?
This is both understandable and inevitable.

 

[cv5]

Read Hebrews 8 and understand Jeremiah 31.

Inauguration is not the same as complete fulfillment​

Hebrews 8–10 unquestionably teaches that Christ’s death has inaugurated the New Covenant.

Believers today receive forgiveness, regeneration, and the Spirit through Christ’s finished work.

But that does not mean every promise Jeremiah attached to the covenant has already been fulfilled nationally.

In fact Hebrews preserves Jeremiah’s wording:

“I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.”

It does not say:

“with the Church instead of Israel and Judah.”

 

[OMC]

So what you are really telling us that you are feeling frustrated and utterly defeated?
This is both understandable and inevitable.

Clearly what my previous paragraph really meant was that I’m “frustrated and utterly defeated,” because nothing screams “OMC is on the ropes” like me pointing out — with surgical precision and comedic brutality — that your wilderness‑miracle hermeneutic is the theological equivalent of duct‑taping Deuteronomy to a generator and calling it eschatology; obviously, when I mock the idea that God preserving sandals means the millennium will be an Amish‑theocracy with universal Gentile farm labor, what I’m really saying is “oh no, cv5's agrarian kingdom argument has crushed me,” and when I highlight the absurdity of using quail‑delivery miracles as proof of future global infrastructure collapse, what I’m really confessing is “I can’t handle this airtight dispensational logic”; truly, your claim that my sarcasm equals defeat is the kind of interpretive brilliance that makes me wonder if you also read Matthew 25 and conclude Jesus was secretly conducting a geopolitical summit, or read Jeremiah 31 and conclude the New Covenant is both now and not‑yet depending on which chart you’re holding — but please, do continue diagnosing my “frustration,” because watching you treat rhetorical swagger as exegetical victory is honestly more entertaining than the celestial poultry‑delivery system you think the millennium will run on.

 

[Revelation1v8]

Really you are just telling us that you do not want to believe 2 Peter 3:10.

I believe 2 Peter 3:10 is a total destruction of the current world to make room for the new heaven and earth.

 

[Beekeeper]

Inauguration is not the same as complete fulfillment​

Hebrews 8–10 unquestionably teaches that Christ’s death has inaugurated the New Covenant.

Believers today receive forgiveness, regeneration, and the Spirit through Christ’s finished work.

But that does not mean every promise Jeremiah attached to the covenant has already been fulfilled nationally.

In fact Hebrews preserves Jeremiah’s wording:


It does not say:

The real meaning takes you to a place that you do not want to go.
Cornelius will inherit the exact same promise as the house of Israel and the house of Judah.

Peter and his Jewish friends struggled with that one too, but they worked it out.
You did not.
So now you can go ahead and write a long essay "proving" that that is not the case.

 

[Revelation1v8]

The real meaning takes you to a place that you do not want to go.
Cornelius will inherit the exact same promise as the house of Israel and the house of Judah.

Peter and his Jewish friends struggled with that one too, but they worked it out.
You did not.
So now you can go ahead and write a long essay "proving" that that is not the case.

I don't think you understand what CV5 is saying there. CV5 is pointing out that Jeremiah 31 has a dual message. He's not excluding Gentiles from it.

Jeremiah 31 is a pivotal Old Testament chapter that transitions from prophetic judgment to divine restoration and the promise of a New Covenant. It begins by affirming God’s everlasting love for Israel, promising that the scattered nation will return to their land, experience joy, and be rebuilt as a people in a restored relationship with God.

The chapter’s central theological contribution is the New Covenant (verses 31–34), where God declares He will write His law on human hearts rather than on stone tablets. This internal transformation ensures that all people, from the least to the greatest, will know the Lord directly, and He will forgive their wickedness and remember their sins no more.

Key themes include the gathering of Israel from exile, the comfort of Rachel for her lost children, and the assurance of national permanence tied to the stability of the heavens and earth. The chapter concludes with a vision of Jerusalem’s expansion and holiness, emphasizing that God’s commitment to His people is as unbreakable as the natural order.

 

[Churchgoer]

The real meaning takes you to a place that you do not want to go.
Cornelius will inherit the exact same promise as the house of Israel and the house of Judah.

Peter and his Jewish friends struggled with that one too, but they worked it out.
You did not.
So now you can go ahead and write a long essay "proving" that that is not the case.

Jesus said, who is my mother brother? Those who does the will of God is my brother sister mother.

 

[Churchgoer]

Jesus said, who is my mother brother? Those who does the will of God is my brother sister mother.

Here is another question, how can one be mother, brother, sister, and bride of Jesus?

Another group?

 

[cv5]

The real meaning takes you to a place that you do not want to go.
Cornelius will inherit the exact same promise as the house of Israel and the house of Judah.

Peter and his Jewish friends struggled with that one too, but they worked it out.
You did not.
So now you can go ahead and write a long essay "proving" that that is not the case.

I have arrived at my destination. So my travels are over.

FYI, your RT promotion has failed at every encounter. This of course is good news.

BTW, Acts 2, 3 and 15 confirm the FUTURE post-Church age restoration of the Kingdom to Israel. As does the Matthew 25 sheep and goats NATIONS judgement.

 

[LTTexan]

Not hard to see who is losing this argument, so the answer to the question of thread is a NO!

 

[cv5]

The real meaning takes you to a place that you do not want to go.
Cornelius will inherit the exact same promise as the house of Israel and the house of Judah.

Peter and his Jewish friends struggled with that one too, but they worked it out.
You did not.
So now you can go ahead and write a long essay "proving" that that is not the case.

Yes, Christ Jesus will indeed forgive and RESTORE Gomer. So why do so you despise she whom God loves?

Key Terms and Action Verbs Used in Hosea

Betroth (’āraś): Hosea 2:19–20 uses this specific marital term three times: "I will betroth you to me forever... in righteousness and in justice, in steadfast love and in mercy. I will betroth you to me in faithfulness." This marks a total covenant re-establishment.

Love (‘āhab): Hosea 3:1 commands Hosea: "Go again, love a woman who is loved by another lover and is an adulteress, even as the Lord loves the children of Israel." God's primary action toward her is persistent, unmerited love.

Buy / Ransom / Redeem (kārāh / pādāh): Hosea 3:2 records Hosea physically purchasing Gomer out of servitude for 15 shekels of silver and a measure of barley—a direct act of redemption. God uses the explicit redeem/ransom vocabulary in Hosea 13:14: "I shall ransom (pādāh) them from the power of Sheol; I shall redeem (gā’al) them from Death."

Show Mercy / Pity (rāḥam): God reverses the prophetic judgment of Hosea's children's names to signal restoration: "I will have mercy on No Mercy [Lo-Ruhamah], and I will say to Not My People [Lo-Ammi], 'You are my people'" (Hosea 2:23).

Allure and Speak Comfortably (pātāh & dābar ‘al-lēb): Hosea 2:14 states, "I will allure her, and bring her into the wilderness, and speak tenderly to her"—drawing her away from her idols to restore her heart.

Heal (rāpā’): Hosea 14:4 describes spiritual restoration: "I will heal their apostasy; I will love them freely, for my anger has turned from them."
Purify / Remove: Purification is framed as removing temptation: "I will remove the names of the Baals from her mouth, and they shall be remembered by name no more" (Hosea 2:17).