Replacement theology? Yes or No.

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LOL. We have already covered the core message of Romans 9. Many times.
And its quite straightforward. But as is usual, the CT's and RT's contort it so that it becomes another endless fruitless pointless debate.
Which is their objective to begin with. Always searching, never knowing.

Luckily, my searches ARE fruitful and I DO know. The truth of settled, inerrant Biblically based doctrine that is.

BTW, your AI replies are entirely obvious.
Grid 3 is not an AI.
Whether my replies are written by me, AI, or a carrier pigeon is irrelevant to the argument.
You say Romans 9 is straightforward and settled.
Then demonstrate it from the text!
Romans 9:6-8 explicitly says: "They are not all Israel, which are of Israel... the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed."
Paul's point is that physical descent alone never guaranteed participation in the promises.
That's the foundation of his argument.
So instead of saying CTs and RTs "don't understand Romans 9," explain how your interpretation accounts for Paul's distinction between physical Israel and the children of promise.
Repeating that the matter is settled is not the same as demonstrating it from Scripture.
Paul makes his case by argument and exposition, not by declaring his opponents defeated.
 
Grid 3 is not an AI.
Whether my replies are written by me, AI, or a carrier pigeon is irrelevant to the argument.
You say Romans 9 is straightforward and settled.
Then demonstrate it from the text!
Romans 9:6-8 explicitly says: "They are not all Israel, which are of Israel... the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed."
Paul's point is that physical descent alone never guaranteed participation in the promises.
That's the foundation of his argument.
So instead of saying CTs and RTs "don't understand Romans 9," explain how your interpretation accounts for Paul's distinction between physical Israel and the children of promise.
Repeating that the matter is settled is not the same as demonstrating it from Scripture.
Paul makes his case by argument and exposition, not by declaring his opponents defeated.
I will not waste my valuable time on you. But you can use the search tool and find out for yourself.
 
Sigh, I apologize. That was improper of me, yes ill answer you.
Romans 9:4-8 is precisely why simply appealing to ethnic descent cannot settle the question.
Paul explicitly says, "they are not all Israel, which are of Israel" (Rom. 9:6).
He then explains that not all Abraham's physical descendants are counted as the promised seed: "In Isaac shall thy seed be called" (v.7). His conclusion is unmistakable: "They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed" (v.8).

So before anyone claims Romans 11 must refer to ethnic Israel as a whole, they must reckon with Paul's own definition in Romans 9. Paul's concern is to defend the faithfulness of God's promises despite widespread Jewish unbelief.
His argument is that God's word has not failed because God's promises were never guaranteed to every physical descendant, but to the children of promise.

Therefore, any interpretation of "all Israel" in Romans 11 must be consistent with Paul's earlier statement that not all who are descended from Israel are truly Israel (Rom. 9:6).
That's not importing theology into the text. That's following Paul's argument where he himself begins it.

That's why the Bible shows us that God said He was the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. It was for that reason.

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I will not waste my valuable time on you. But you can use the search tool and find out for yourself.
That is a unfortunate deflection because I was really ready to go to war. You claim I have my own doctrine, that I understand nothing. fine.
Lets do it here right now. With all to see and judge for themselves. um, yes, that was a challenge of your system against my "doctrine"
 
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That is a unfortunate deflection because I was really ready to go to war. You claim I have my own doctrine, that I understand nothing. fine.
Lets do it here right now. With all to see and judge for themselves. um, yes, that was a challenge of your system against my "doctrine"
What ministry or position do you align with?
Link.
 
That's why the Bible shows us that God said He was the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. It was for that reason.

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Exactly. God did not say He was the God of Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Esau, and Jacob.
Romans 9 shows the covenant line was narrowed through God's promise: Abraham → Isaac → Jacob. That is Paul's point when he says, "They are not all Israel, which are of Israel" and "the children of the promise are counted for the seed" (Rom. 9:6-8).
Physical descent alone was never the basis of the promise.
 
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What ministry or position do you align with?
Link.
I don't identify with a theological system.
I try to follow a biblical or exegetical approach, letting Scripture interpret Scripture and drawing conclusions from the text rather than starting with a predetermined framework.
 
I don't identify with a theological system.
I try to follow a biblical or exegetical approach, letting Scripture interpret Scripture and drawing conclusions from the text rather than starting with a predetermined framework.
So you are not connected to the body of Christ?
A maverick doctrine?
 
So you are not connected to the body of Christ?
A maverick doctrine?
Not at all. Being connected to the body of Christ and subscribing to a theological system are not the same thing.
The body of Christ is made up of those who belong to Christ (1 Cor. 12:12-27), not those who agree with a particular man-made framework.
 
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So you are not connected to the body of Christ?
A maverick doctrine?

I don't know about you, Psalm1, but most of the churches I've been to will admit that they kind of stick to a level of Christianity 101 because they're there to reach the lost, not the already saved. That's when we get left to our own devices to study the scripture and learn about things we wouldn't otherwise know or understand.
 
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I don't know about you, Psalm1, but most of the churches I've been to will admit that they kind of stick to a level of Christianity 101 because they're there to reach the lost, not the already saved. That's when we get left to our own devices to study the scripture and learn about things we wouldn't otherwise know or understand.
I have been misled by many systems because I trusted the men and women that wrote or taught them.
Finding errors with my own eyes and admiting to myself what I was seeing is truth.
Not what they were telling me.
Does that mean I stop talking to people or fellowship? No, of course not.
But I dont follow any system.
We are certainly meant to learn from other believers (Eph. 4:11-16), but Scripture remains the standard by which all teaching is tested (Acts 17:11). So my position is not, "I don't need the body of Christ." My position is, "No theological system gets to sit above Scripture."
If a dispensational, covenant, reformed, or any other framework agrees with the text, fine. If not, the text wins. "Let God be true, but every man a liar" (Rom. 3:4).
 
I have been misled by many systems because I trusted the men and women that wrote or taught them.
Finding errors with my own eyes and admiting to myself what I was seeing is truth.
Not what they were telling me.
Does that mean I stop talking to people or fellowship? No, of course not.
But I dont follow any system.
We are certainly meant to learn from other believers (Eph. 4:11-16), but Scripture remains the standard by which all teaching is tested (Acts 17:11). So my position is not, "I don't need the body of Christ." My position is, "No theological system gets to sit above Scripture."
If a dispensational, covenant, reformed, or any other framework agrees with the text, fine. If not, the text wins. "Let God be true, but every man a liar" (Rom. 3:4).

Most everyone is well meaning, but I can honestly say that I've learned more from having these conversations with different people over the years online than I ever did in church. Yes, we must all test what people are saying against the scriptures, no matter who they are. Even Paul warned that part of the problem wasn't just people preaching a totally different gospel, but perverting the one that exists, which is why it's so important to know what the scriptures actually say in the first place.

Galations 1:6-7

6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
 
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That is a unfortunate deflection because I was really ready to go to war. You claim I have my own doctrine, that I understand nothing. fine.
Lets do it here right now. With all to see and judge for themselves. um, yes, that was a challenge of your system against my "doctrine"
Going to war are you?
Against the Jews, the coming restoration of the Kingdom to Israel, legit biblical doctrine, Christ and Paul?

Ok I will make my wager on who I think will prevail and make a fortune....😂
 
That is a unfortunate deflection because I was really ready to go to war. You claim I have my own doctrine, that I understand nothing. fine.
Lets do it here right now. With all to see and judge for themselves. um, yes, that was a challenge of your system against my "doctrine"

I am curious to know how your doctrine differs from @cv5, even if I read the thread I am not sure I would see it.

Since you do not mind posting a lot, can you give a quick snapshot of the differences?

Just a request, cause I am curious if it is complicated you can pass, no obligation.

Seems to me you both follow a dispensationalist framework, but I know there are various interpretations within system.
 
I am curious to know how your doctrine differs from @cv5, even if I read the thread I am not sure I would see it.

Since you do not mind posting a lot, can you give a quick snapshot of the differences?

Just a request, cause I am curious if it is complicated you can pass, no obligation.

Seems to me you both follow a dispensationalist framework, but I know there are various interpretations within system.
He defends a system imposed on scripture, while I impose scripture on his system. That’s the difference.
Sometimes we agree others not so much. In the end I follow where scripture leads, not a system.
 
He defends a system imposed on scripture, while I impose scripture on his system. That’s the difference.
Sometimes we agree others not so much. In the end I follow where scripture leads, not a system.

Okay.
 
And the fact of the Temple destruction (every stone removed) invalidates the preterist claim that the abomination of desolation somehow happened at that juncture in time.

Not to mention that all preterist claims fail because they do not concatenate with and match:
-the Passover pattern, which itself matches
-the seven feasts of Moses
-the Hebrew wedding protocol
-the doctrine of the rapture (where LIVING believers, all of them) are translated (sorry Matt 27 pundits like @Cameron143 )

And a massive trove of other Biblical patterns embedded into:
- the book of Ruth
- Lot/Sodom
- Rahab/Jericho
-Esther
- Enoch

And so much more.

Oh did I fail to mention that the Book of Revelation was written very late maybe 95-96 AD?
Yes, all of those prophecies are yet future, including of course the REAL abomination of desolation
that must occur in the 70th week AFTER the times of the gentiles, after the fullness of the gentiles, after the Church age.

Sorry fake sorry everyone!
Since you wont debate me directly I will pick apart all your rantings starting with this one.
This argument would be stronger if you stayed with what Scripture actually says rather than declaring entire systems "fake" and appealing to patterns as though they settle the question.
The fact that a view does not fit your understanding of the Passover pattern, the feasts, Ruth, Rahab, Esther, Enoch, or the Hebrew wedding does not by itself refute that view.
Biblical patterns can illustrate doctrine, but doctrine must first be established from explicit texts (Acts 17:11).
More importantly, the timing of Revelation does not automatically prove a futurist system.
Even if Revelation were written in the mid-90s AD, that would only establish when the book was written, not how every prophecy within it must be interpreted.
Likewise, your assertion that the abomination of desolation "must occur in the 70th week after the Church age" requires proving from the text itself.
Daniel 9 never mentions a Church age gap between the sixty-ninth and seventieth weeks, nor does it explicitly place the abomination after the fullness of the Gentiles.
Those are inferences that must be demonstrated, not assumed.
Furthermore, when you mock others with phrases like "Sorry fake sorry everyone," you move away from the spirit Scripture commands. "The servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient" (2 Tim. 2:24-25).
"Let your speech be alway with grace" (Col. 4:6). "Charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up" (1 Cor. 13:4).
If your position is correct, it should be defended by the strength of Scripture, not by ridicule, overstatement, or treating disputed interpretations as though they were explicit biblical facts.
The question is not whether your system contains many patterns, but whether the passages in question plainly teach the conclusions you are asserting.
This attitude is the first appearance of the fruit you bare and it is not lined up with the spirit you think it is.
That is the burden that remains.
 
Double fulfillment for one thing. Very common in scripture.

For another thing, CONTEXT is "end times"....IN THAT DAY.
Every time the term IN THAT DAY is used, it always points to the future judgements leading to the Second Coming.

Furthermore there are HUNDREDS of prophecies of similar nature from Genesis to Deuteronomy to Revelation AND in the NT in massive
quantities that have yet to be fulfilled.

Furthermore (and crucially) Seven Feasts of Moses prophetic pattern HAS NOT yet been fulfilled.
The preterist crowd always has been wrong and always will be. Due to Biblical illiteracy.
You are making several assertions that go beyond what Scripture explicitly says.
First, "double fulfillment" may occur in some prophecies, but you cannot simply invoke double fulfillment whenever a text does not fit your system.
Each case must be demonstrated from the text itself.
Second, your claim that every occurrence of "in that day" always refers to the judgments immediately preceding the Second Coming is simply too broad.
The phrase is used in a variety of prophetic contexts, and the burden is on you to prove that a specific occurrence refers to the end of the age rather than assuming it does.
Third, appealing to "hundreds of prophecies," the Seven Feasts, Ruth, Lot, Rahab, Esther, Enoch, and other patterns does not settle the interpretation of a disputed passage.
Patterns can illustrate truth, but they cannot override the plain meaning of the text.
A doctrine should be established by clear passages first and then illustrated by patterns, not the other way around.
Fourth, notice the inconsistency in your argument: when discussing preterists, you object to them seeing fulfillment where you do not, yet you freely appeal to prophetic patterns and typology that are often not explicitly identified in the text itself.

Finally, your statement that "the preterist crowd always has been wrong and always will be" and your accusation of "Biblical illiteracy" reflect an attitude Scripture warns against.
"The servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient" (2 Tim. 2:24).
"In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves" (2 Tim. 2:25). "Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth" (1 Cor. 8:1).

If your position is biblical, it should be defended from the text itself.
Calling those who disagree illiterate does not prove your interpretation; it only suggests a confidence level that exceeds what Scripture explicitly states.
The issue is not whether futurism may be correct.
The issue is whether you have demonstrated it from clear scriptural statements rather than from theological inferences and prophetic patterns.
Another piece of evidence of the fruit you bare.
 
I believe you are missing out on much as well. Let's break it down and come to the my final conclusion in my last statement:

The New Covenant for Israelites​

The New Covenant was originally spoken to Israel and Judah (Jeremiah 31:31; Ezekiel 36:26–28). For them it means:

  • Unconditional forgiveness — "I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more" (Jer. 31:34). This is no longer dependent on animal sacrifice or Israel's own obedience.
  • Internal transformation — God's law is written on the heart rather than on stone tablets (Jer. 31:33; Ezek. 36:27). Israel will be circumcised inwardly, not just outwardly.
  • Direct knowledge of God — "All of them, both small and great, will know me" (Jer. 31:34), removing the need for intercessory priests.
  • Regathering and restoration — Israel will be gathered back to the land, united as one nation under one king, and will dwell there forever (Ezek. 37:21–28).
  • A covenant of peace — an everlasting, unbreakable relationship that will not be broken as the Mosaic covenant was (Jer. 31:32).

The New Covenant for Gentiles

Gentiles were originally "strangers to the covenants of promise" (Ephesians 2:12), excluded from the commonwealth of Israel. The New Covenant changes that:
  • Grafted into Abraham's family — Through faith in Christ, Gentiles become "fellow heirs, fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus" (Eph. 3:6). Paul calls this a mystery previously hidden (Eph. 3:3–6; Col. 1:26–27).
  • The blessing of Abraham extended — "That the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Jesus Christ" (Gal. 3:14). The Abrahamic covenant's promise to "all nations" is realized.
  • Freedom from the Mosaic Law — The Jerusalem Council (Acts 15) confirmed that Gentile believers are not obligated to keep the Law of Moses. The wall of separation is broken (Eph. 2:14–16).
  • Equality in Christ — "There is no longer Jew or Gentile… for you are all one in Christ Jesus" (Gal. 3:28). Both groups share the same forgiveness, the same indwelling Spirit, and the same access to God.
  • Union with Christ — Because Christ was Himself a Jew, Gentiles who are united to Him by faith participate in His covenant relationship with the God of Israel.

This is why Paul tells you in Romans 11:25-27 that God/Jesus has temporarily blinded the Jews until THE FULNESS OF THE GENTILES COMES IN. Once it does, God/Jesus will make Himself known to them so they can join into the New Covenant that WE WILL ALL SHARE, but it doesn't all happen at the same time.

You and your ai friend are entirely lost there unfortunately.
Neither of you could even understand God's blessing in the second temple restoration, which in the time of Zerubbabel was a time of hardship, yet a time when the people knew their God.
That is the only blessing there in this world my friend.

The new covenant for Israelites is the one taught in the book of Hebrews, involving:
Union with Christ: Hebrews 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
Equality in Christ: Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus
freedom from the Mosaic law: Hebrews 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
The blessings of Abraham extended: Hebrews 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Grafted into Abraham's spiritual family: Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. 9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

The peace given to the Hebrews under the new covenant is between God and man, not in this present world.

Hebrews 8:4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
 
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