I would like to do some studding on Revelation with some people, if thats OK?
Revelation
- Thread starter DougBSr
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Of course it's okay. Welcome to CC!
Because this is a discussion board and not a live chat, studying together is a little different than sitting around a room having an in-person conversation. That said, I suggest you share some observations as you go, and people will respond. Just be aware that there are some very strong opinions on the matter, and the holders of them are willing to share... "generously".
Because this is a discussion board and not a live chat, studying together is a little different than sitting around a room having an in-person conversation. That said, I suggest you share some observations as you go, and people will respond. Just be aware that there are some very strong opinions on the matter, and the holders of them are willing to share... "generously".
yes, go and share, hoping for all responses in care from the people here, love it
For me, Revelations is a Prophetic book. in and out of Heaven. Here on earth being the context and then in Heaven being the context is what I see and still do not understand it all. I do not expect to, since in the day of Jesus they did not know and denied Jesus as sent from God. they did not understand what killing him would do. He is risen where new life for me at least is given to not worry or stress out over anything anymore
We, the people want to know, who can really know Father's mysterious ways?
So, read Revelations yourself and seek to know Father and Son there in Revelations and let it flow through you and we all learn things we have not known.understanding everything in truth is conjecture
the Doctrine for me is Christ died once for us all then is risen to stand in believe to see it, growing in grace given and be new in love and mercy to all thanks, for me at least
Precious friend, @DougBSr, yes, a very worthwile task; if I may suggest, start here:
Studies In The Book Of Revelation
Please be Very Richly Encouraged And Edified In
The Lord Jesus Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided.
Amen.
To start with, the word Revelation means to uncover or reveal. John was taken in the spirit to the Lord's day and he wrote the things he witnessed in heaven and in earth. There is a lot to learn from the book and there is some symbology that often is explained. Hope you find your study interesting.
Whoa !!
Mr. DougB is interested in understanding Revelation, for the reasons of being "Blesses" I'm assuming. Not wanting to be deceived, I hope and pray.
Rev 1:3 "Blessed is he that reads, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand
Col. 2:8 "Beware lest anyone rob you through philosophy and vain deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the elements of the world, and not according to Christ."
I went and read the first couple pages of this paper ~ "Studies In The Book Of Revelation" -> A little Truth mixed in with a lot of "deception" ... This is the way of the world, having the spirit of anti-Christ. ~~ Satan doesn't want people understanding the Revelation of Jesus, who is central in this book, ~ It ALL about Jesus ... The Book of Revelation is the 5th Gospel, IMHO
OH !! How do I KNOW that the explanation of the Book of Rev in "Studies In The Book Of Revelation" is deception ? Because, the second sentence in, says, "The purpose of this study is to dispel the notion that the Church, the Body of Christ is the subject of the first four chapters of the Book of Revelation." ~~ The "notion" that Rev 1-3 are NOT about the His Church, body of Christ, is a lie, from the Spirit of Satan, meant to deceive, mislead and misdirect, unto perdition. ~ ~ And it only get worse, from there on, completely destroying God's Prophetic Word.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How do I know ? Because, I believe Jesus saying that "John to the seven churches which are in Asia:"
the seven churches are a symbolic representation of Christ’s body (the Christian church) across all periods of history, from the first century until the second coming.
upon reading what Jesus has to say to the Seven Churches, and looking a the history from the 1st century till NOW, we can understand that ~~ “The messages given to the churches in Asia, portray the state of things existing in the churches of the religious world today. The names of the churches are symbolic of the Christian church in different periods of the Christian era; the number of the churches—seven—indicates completeness and is symbolic of the fact that the messages extend to the end of time.”
Christ has a personal connection to His Churches ~~ Referring to Revelation 2:1, ~~ Christ’s presence among the candlesticks (the churches) confirms they are His living body on earth, carrying out His work.
This "chain of truth" ties the seven churches directly to the final mission of the church — to prepare for Christ’s return.
- Revelation 1:11 – "What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches..."
- Revelation 1:20 – The seven candlesticks are the seven churches.
- Revelation 2–3 – Christ speaks to each church personally.
The seven churches symbolize the Christian church throughout all ages.
They represent the body of Christ on earth, watched and cared for personally by Jesus.
Their messages are for our time — especially the Laodicean message (Revelation 3:14–22).
Ephesus → Smyrna → Pergamos → Thyatira → Sardis → Philadelphia → Laodicea
(31 AD) (100 AD) (313 AD) (538 AD) (1517 AD) (1798 AD) (1844 AD - Present)
Christ is in the midst of all — walking among the candlesticks!
Read Rev 3:14-19 ~~~ Laodicean perfectly describes the condition of Christ's Church TODAY... Very much in need of rebuke and correction, and few realize their true condition. We are called to repent, be zealous, and open the door to Christ (Revelation 3:19-20)!
Blessed Sabbath Folks, ~~~ Get Ready, Get Ready, I pray ~~~ The King is coming to Stay!
A good start! That's the first key to understanding the writings..... John was "in the spirit" -- and seeing things not on earth at all, but in heaven (in spirit).
Precious friend, @DougBSr, A Very Warm Welcome Back...
Hope these corrections will be helpful in your studies of Revelation:
Berean Searchlight August 2009
Berean Searchlight September 2009
Berean Searchlight October 2009
Berean Searchlight November 2009
Berean Searchlight December 2009
Berean Searchlight February 2010
Berean Searchlight March 2010
Berean Searchlight April 2010
Berean Searchlight May 2010
-------
And, precious friend(s), Please Be Very Richly Encouraged and Edified
In The Lord Jesus Christ and In His Precious Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided:
The Bible: The BIG Picture
Amen.
...I also apologize for the above 'link' error I possibly missed last year.
Hope these corrections will be helpful in your studies of Revelation:
Berean Searchlight August 2009
Berean Searchlight September 2009
Berean Searchlight October 2009
Berean Searchlight November 2009
Berean Searchlight December 2009
Berean Searchlight February 2010
Berean Searchlight March 2010
Berean Searchlight April 2010
Berean Searchlight May 2010
-------
And, precious friend(s), Please Be Very Richly Encouraged and Edified
In The Lord Jesus Christ and In His Precious Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided:
The Bible: The BIG Picture
Amen.
I have been studying Revelation by listening to other preachers on this subject. And I've learned a lot about it. I want to see how others look at and understand Revelation. So I would like to chat with others who have studied Revelation, to understand how many points of view people have on this subject.
I am curious why you want to study Revelations? I do NOT want to discourage you in any way but do have a caution from personal experience. One of the first books I chose for an in-depth study was Revelations and it was a big mistake for me. I did not have the knowledge base needed to even begin understanding.
If you have that knowledge by all means dive
-in. If not, it may help a great deal to begin your study in the book of Daniel. It may help put things in perspective.
In any event God will greatly expand your understanding and bless your effort. Enjoy your journey.
If you have that knowledge by all means dive
-in. If not, it may help a great deal to begin your study in the book of Daniel. It may help put things in perspective.
In any event God will greatly expand your understanding and bless your effort. Enjoy your journey.
I recently completed a study of Revelation on the Systematic Bible Study thread and would be happy to chat with you about it there or here.
Here is my song about Revelation that describes hell. Hope you enjoy it.
https://groovykerygma.bandcamp.com/track/late-last-night-revelation
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Rev 1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
The book of Revelation is a revealing of Jesus Christ to the world and He is God.
Which the mystery of God will be finished which the world will then know about God as He reveals Himself by physical evidence.
So this in the future.
Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Joh 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
No person will see Jesus until the time in the future.
And He will never appear in the flesh again.
It is a book that explains the conditions on earth which leads the world to establish a system world wide where the efforts of people work for peace, and embraces a religious system where their system is contrary to the operation of God that causes Him to end sin putting the world down.
The world will embrace the religion of the antichrist which all religions are compatible and Jesus is not Lord and Savior but beneficial and there is no personal God( 1 Timothy 4:1-2; 2 Timothy 4: 2-4).
Which when the New Age Christ starts working in the world he will push his religion and end up ruling the world and will claim to be God and the Savior of the world and above.
Rev 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
Rev 18:5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
1Th 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
The book of Revelation is a warning to the world to not go along with the world when they come together for it is not beneficial to the person but follow God.
Paul had written that those in Asia had abandoned him. This might mean that the churches in Asia had been diverted to the kingdom gospel that was what had been attempted in Galatia. Since some of the churches listed Revelation chapters 2-3 are the same as Paul wrote to, it might mean that these were now adhering to the kingdom gospel for the nation of Israel. That there were two gospels can be seen in Galatians;
Gal 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
Those following the Kingdom gospel were waiting for the nation of Israel to accept Jesus as Messiah. This would trigger the time of Jacob's trouble (also called the tribulation). Most of the book of Revelation is a description of what will happen during this period.
If the nation of Israel had received Jesus as king, the tribulation would have come them and at the end Christ would have returned and established the earthly kingdom. Since this did not happen yet, when the tribulation does come a faithful remnant of Israel will be supernaturally protected by God during the latter part of the tribulation and be motivated to receive their Messiah and his kingdom then.
The book of Revelation was intended for both those to whom it was written if Israel received Jesus then or to those who will receive Jesus in the future.
Gal 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
Those following the Kingdom gospel were waiting for the nation of Israel to accept Jesus as Messiah. This would trigger the time of Jacob's trouble (also called the tribulation). Most of the book of Revelation is a description of what will happen during this period.
If the nation of Israel had received Jesus as king, the tribulation would have come them and at the end Christ would have returned and established the earthly kingdom. Since this did not happen yet, when the tribulation does come a faithful remnant of Israel will be supernaturally protected by God during the latter part of the tribulation and be motivated to receive their Messiah and his kingdom then.
The book of Revelation was intended for both those to whom it was written if Israel received Jesus then or to those who will receive Jesus in the future.
framework is internally coherent, but it does not match what Paul actually says about Asia, Galatia, or the two gospels in Galatians 2:7.
Paul’s statement: “All who are in Asia turned away from me.” 2 Tim 1:15
refers to personal desertion, not doctrinal apostasy. Why?
Paul immediately names Phygelus and Hermogenes, individuals—not churches.
He contrasts them with Onesiphorus, who helped him, not who “held to the right gospel.”
The context is fear of persecution, not theological defection.
There is no textual signal that Asia Minor churches abandoned Paul’s gospel for Peter’s.
Paul says the Galatians were being drawn into:
circumcision
Torah observance
justification by works of the law
This is not the kingdom gospel. This is Judaizing—an attempt to make Gentiles become Jews.
Paul explicitly says: “They want to compel you to be circumcised.” Gal 6:12
The kingdom gospel never required Gentiles to become Jews. It required Israel to repent and receive her Messiah.
The Galatian error was legalistic proselytizing, not kingdom‑program alignment.
This is the most important point.
Paul says: “The gospel of the uncircumcision was committed to me, as the gospel of the circumcision was to Peter.”
The grammar is distributive:
same gospel
two audiences
This is why Paul immediately says: “They added nothing to me.” Gal 2:6
If Peter had a different gospel in content, he would have added something.
He didn’t. The difference is sphere, not message.
Paul → Gentiles
Peter → Jews
This is exactly how the Greek genitives function: objective genitives of audience, not genitives of content.
The seven churches in Revelation 2–3:
are Gentile‑majority
are Pauline‑founded or Pauline‑influenced
are addressed by Christ in terms of moral fidelity, not covenantal identity
None of them are called:
Israel
Judah
the remnant
the circumcision
the kingdom people
They are churches, not synagogues. Their warnings and promises are ecclesial, not national‑Israel covenantal.
Your framework assumes:
Israel could still accept Jesus after Acts 2
If they had, the tribulation would have begun
Revelation was written with that contingency in mind
But the NT shows:
Israel’s national rejection is finalized in Acts 7 (Stephen).
The gospel turns decisively to the Gentiles in Acts 10–13.
Paul declares Israel “not all Israel” in Romans 9–11.
The kingdom is postponed until the future remnant (Rom 11:26).
By the time Revelation is written (AD 90s):
Jerusalem is destroyed
Israel is scattered
The kingdom offer is not active
The church is the present redemptive body
Revelation is written to churches, but about Israel’s future. Not “to Israel if they accept Jesus now.”
You are right that:
a remnant of Israel will be protected
they will receive the Messiah
this triggers the kingdom
Revelation describes this
But this remnant is future Israel, not first‑century churches.
The remnant is:
ethnic Israel
nationally restored
covenantally renewed
spiritually regenerated
This is Romans 11, Zechariah 12–14, Matthew 24, Revelation 7 & 12.
Your proposal:
Revelation was intended for both those to whom it was written if Israel received Jesus then, or to those who will receive Jesus in the future.
This is historically impossible.
Revelation was written:
after Israel’s rejection
after the destruction of the Temple
after the kingdom offer had closed
after the church age had begun
after Paul’s ministry was complete
It cannot be a contingency document.
It is a prophetic unveiling of:
the church age
the tribulation
Israel’s future salvation
Christ’s return
the kingdom
the new creation
Not a “conditional manual” for a hypothetical first‑century kingdom.
Your model contains several correct components. But the connections you draw between,
Asia abandoning Paul
Galatia adopting the kingdom gospel
two gospels in Galatians 2:7
Revelation being contingent on Israel’s acceptance
do not align with the text.
You might find it useful to study Daniel as well. Revelation is the final gospel presentation, but a proper understanding of Daniel will prove to be a great blessing.
[Rev 14:6-8 KJV] 6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, 7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. 8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
[Rev 10:2, 8-10 KJV] 2 And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and [his] left [foot] on the earth, ... 8 And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go [and] take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth. 9 And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take [it], and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey. 10 And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.
[Rev 10:11 KJV] 11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.
The little book is Daniel
[Dan 12:1-4 KJV] 1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame [and] everlasting contempt. 3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. 4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, [even] to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
[Dan 12:9-10 KJV] 9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words [are] closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
Keep in mind that John being taken in the spirit, means he was given a vision. It does not mean God transported him to literal Heaven, or the literal future. So you have to read Revelation like you would by any Vision (Like the book of Daniel). Which means things are either symbolic, literal or a mix.
Now, arguing which is which, everyone is going to have their own opinions on the matter.
Now, arguing which is which, everyone is going to have their own opinions on the matter.