Romans 3:10-11 "There is none righteous, ...who understands, ...who seeks after God, no, not one;

[PaulThomson]

Paul Thomson said:

But as I said, for the born again believer, from my perspective, walking in spirit, and walking in the Holy Spirit, are the same thing, since his own spirit is pure, holy and perfect, remade after the image of Christ. A born again Christian can also start walking in the false programming of their mind (which needs to be gradually renewed) and their flesh (which eschews self-sacrifice), instead of "in spirit”, and fall short of the glory of God.

People who are not saved can walk in the spirit, but are not able walk in the Spirit. His own Spirit is not remade after the image of Christ. I'll consider that an unintended error. Maybe your typing got ahead of your thoughts and you left something out in between? When we receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, baptizing us into Christ, as a result of a genuine faith, only then do we begin to be perfected, or matured towards Christlikeness. The Holy Spirit working with our spirit does not make them the same.

I don’t see how your comment here relates to my statement to which it is a response. You are aguing against something I did not say in my words that you cited. I was not speaking there of the unbeliever.

 

[Dave123]

I say -
PaulThomson said:
'None of these texts have “the” before “spirit” ', because the Greek text, which is what God inspired and gave us, does not have “the" before “spirit'. The NKJV is not the prfect word of god. It is an attempt to translate the Greek into modern English. But it is an attempt made by fallible men. IMO, they are not faithfully representing the scripture as God gave it. They are rephrasing those verses to make them appear to more clearly express their own theological opinions. This is the actual Greek.

5:16 Λέγω δέ (But I am saying) πνεύματι (dative singular, by/with/in/to/for spirit) περιπατεῖτε (present active imperative, keep on walking) καὶ (and) ἐπιθυμίαν (lust) σαρκὸς (of flesh/fleshly/carnal) οὐ μὴ (in no way) τελέσητε (aorist active subjunctive, you may not start fulfilling).
But I am saying: Keep on walking in/by means of spirit and you may not start fulfilling fleshly/carnal lust.

Paul is saying that we will not start sinning as long as we are maintaining a walk by/in spirit. If we stop walking by/in spirit, we will start to fall into sin.

5:17 ἡ γὰρ σὰρξ (the for flesh) ἐπιθυμεῖ (present active indicative, keeps on lusting) κατὰ (against) τοῦ πνεύματος (the spirit) τὸ δὲ (the but/and) πνεῦμα (spirit) κατὰ (against) τῆς σαρκός (the flesh). ταῦτα (these) δὲ (so/but) ἀντίκειται (present deponent indicative, keep on being contrary) ἀλλήλοις (to one another) ἵνα (so that/with the result that) μὴ (not) ἃ (them) ἂν (ever) θέλητε (present active subjunctive, you pl. may keep on being willing ) ταῦτα (those things) ποιῆτε (present active subjunctive, you pl. may keep on doing).
For the flesh keeps on lusting against the spirit, and the spirit keeps on lusting against the flesh. So these (i.e. the spirit and the flesh) keep on being contrary to one another, so that you (pl.), by no means, may keep on desiring/willing to keep on doing these things.

Some of them do use the word "the", also many times defining the ones that don't. Plus some actually say "Spirit of God", or "Spirit of Christ", or context reveals very clearly that it's the Holy Spirit, not ours. The context in Galatians 5 shows clearly it's not our spirit, but the Holy Spirit. He's saying the same thing in Romans 8:4-5, 9-11. Contrasting the flesh with the Spirit.

Romans 8:9-11 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.]/i]

Greek Article Usage in Romans 8:9-11

• • Verse 9: "...not in the flesh but in the Spirit (en tō pneumati), if indeed the Spirit (to pneuma) of God dwells in you..."
  • Verse 9: "...if anyone does not have the Spirit (pneuma) of Christ..." (Note: The Greek here actually lacks the definite article "the" before pneuma in standard critical texts—it reads literally as "spirit of Christ"—though many English translations supply "the").
  • Verse 10: "...the Spirit (to pneuma) is life..."
  • Verse 11: "If the Spirit (to pneuma) of Him who raised Jesus...

Holy Spirit

Same with Galatians 5:16-18

What is the context of verse 16, aside from the entire chapter? Vs. 17-18, which I quoted and you left out.

1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.
7 You ran well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth?
8 This persuasion does not come from Him who calls you.
9 A little leaven leavens the whole lump.
10 I have confidence in you, in the Lord, that you will have no other mind; but he who troubles you shall bear his judgment, whoever he is.
11 And I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why do I still suffer persecution? Then the offense of the cross has ceased.
12 I could wish that those who trouble you would even cut themselves off!
13 For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.
14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
15 But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another!
16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another, envying one another.

Holy Spirit

Is it through your spirit that you eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith vs. 5? (No, it's the Holy Spirit.)

Vs. 16 in chapter 5 is defined by vs 17-18 and the whole chapter, and the whole Bible. Look at vss. 16-17.

Galatians 3:2: Paul asks if they received the Spirit by the works of the law or by believing what they heard. (Holy Spirit)

Galatians 3:14: Mentions receiving the promised Spirit through faith. (Holy Spirit)

Galatians 4:6: God sends the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying "Abba, Father." (Holy Spirit)

Galatians 5:16–18: Instructions to walk by the Spirit and be led by the Spirit.

Galatians 5:22–25: The famous listing of the fruit of the Spirit and keeping in step with the Spirit.

It's the fruit of the Spirit, not the fruit of our flesh, or our spirit.

 

[Dave123]

Paul Thomson said:

But as I said, for the born again believer, from my perspective, walking in spirit, and walking in the Holy Spirit, are the same thing, since his own spirit is pure, holy and perfect, remade after the image of Christ. A born again Christian can also start walking in the false programming of their mind (which needs to be gradually renewed) and their flesh (which eschews self-sacrifice), instead of "in spirit”, and fall short of the glory of God.


I don’t see how your comment here relates to my statement to which it is a response. You are aguing against something I did not say in my words that you cited. I was not speaking there of the unbeliever.

Jesus' Spirit, is the Holy Spirit, and did not need to be remade in His image as you claimed.

Our being "perfected", or matured is a process for our spirit as believers that begins when we are placed into Christ and led by the Holy Spirit.

Galatians 3:2-3 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?

We are legally made perfect when we come to faith because of what Jesus did, which we could never do. We are practically made perfect, or matured over a lifetime, and only in heaven will we be practically perfected, or matured.

Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

 

[PaulThomson]

Same with Galatians 5:16-18

What is the context of verse 16, aside from the entire chapter? Vs. 17-18, which I quoted and you left out.



Holy Spirit

Is it through your spirit that you eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith vs. 5? (No, it's the Holy Spirit.)

Vs. 16 in chapter 5 is defined by vs 17-18 and the whole chapter, and the whole Bible. Look at vss. 16-17.

Galatians 3:2: Paul asks if they received the Spirit by the works of the law or by believing what they heard. (Holy Spirit)

Galatians 3:14: Mentions receiving the promised Spirit through faith. (Holy Spirit)

Galatians 4:6: God sends the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying "Abba, Father." (Holy Spirit)

Galatians 5:16–18: Instructions to walk by the Spirit and be led by the Spirit.

Galatians 5:22–25: The famous listing of the fruit of the Spirit and keeping in step with the Spirit.

It's the fruit of the Spirit, not the fruit of our flesh, or our spirit.

Gal.5:5 ἡμεῖς (we) γὰρ (for) πνεύματι (by means of spirit) ἐκ πίστεως (out of faith) ἐλπίδα (hope) δικαιοσύνης (of righteousness) ἀπεκδεχόμεθα (we are waiting for)
For in spirit we are waiting out of faith for a hope of righteousness/a righteous hope.

“We” are born again believers who have a new spirit and the Holy Spirit in that renewed spirit uniting with us through that renewed spirit. Do by focusing on our spirit we are leaning on the Holy Spirit. So, there is no need to translate pneumati (in/by spirit) here as in/by the Spirit.

5:16 λέγω (I am saying) δέ (so/but) πνεύματι (in/by spirit) περιπατεῖτε (Present active imperative, keep on walking) καὶ (and) ἐπιθυμίαν σαρκὸς (lust of flesh/carnal lust) οὐ (not) μὴ τελέσητε (aorist active subjunctive, you would start fulfilling).
So, I am saying: Keep on walking by means of spirit and you would not start fulfilling carnal lust.

Paul was addressing born again believers, so walking by means of their own renewed perfect spirit is effectively walking by means of the Holy Spirit abiding in their spirits.

5:17 ἡ γὰρ σὰρξ (for the flesh) ἐπιθυμεῖ (is lusting) κατὰ τοῦ πνεύματος (against the Spirit/spirit) τὸ δὲ πνεῦμα (but/and the Spirit/spirit) κατὰ τῆς σαρκός (against the flesh), ταῦτα γὰρ (for these) ἀλλήλοις (one another) ἀντίκειται (are opposing) ἵνα (so that) μὴ (not) ἃ (what) ἐὰν θέλητε (you may be desiring) ταῦτα (these things) ποιῆτε (you may keep on doing).
For the flesh is lusting against the Spirit/spirit , and the Spirit/spirit against the flesh. For these are opposing one another, so that you would not keep on doing what you want to do.

5:18 εἰ δὲ (but if) πνεύματι (by spirit) ἄγεσθε (you are being led) οὐκ (not) ἐστὲ (you are) ὑπὸ νόμον (under law)
But if you are being led by spirit, you are not under law.

5:22 ὁ δὲ καρπὸς (But the fruit) τοῦ πνεύματός (of the Spirit/spirit) ἐστιν (is) ἀγάπη (love) χαρά (joy) εἰρήνη (peace) μακροθυμία (patience) χρηστότης (kindness) ἀγαθωσύνη (goodness) πίστις (faithfulness)

5:25 εἰ ζῶμεν (if we are living) πνεύματι (by means of spirit), πνεύματι (by means of spirit) καὶ (also) στοιχῶμεν (let us keep on walking).
If we are living by spirit, let is also keep on walking by spirit.

Paul chooses to use “the Spirit/spirit” in some places and to drop the definite article in others. It is fair to ask whether he is expecting to convey different meanings by the two terms. It is fair to ask whether the text makes sense when one does infer a difference. The text seems to make perfect sense when the distinction is maintained in translation. It seems prejudicial to insist on dismissing the distinction because maintaining the distinction is proving problematic for one’s presupposed theological opinions.

 

[PaulThomson]

Jesus' Spirit, is the Holy Spirit, and did not need to be remade in His image as you claimed.

I did not say Jesus’ Spirit needed to be remade. I said that the believer’s spirit is remade in the image of Jesus’ Spirit.

"But as I said, for the born again believer, from my perspective, walking in spirit, and walking in the Holy Spirit, are the same thing, since his own spirit is pure, holy and perfect, remade after the image of Christ.

By "his own spirit” I meant “the believer’s own spirit. Had I meant “Jesus’ Spirit", or "the Holy Spirit”, I would have capitalised “His Spirit”.

 

[Dave123]

I did not say Jesus’ Spirit needed to be remade. I said that the believer’s spirit is remade in the image of Jesus’ Spirit.

"But as I said, for the born again believer, from my perspective, walking in spirit, and walking in the Holy Spirit, are the same thing, since his own spirit is pure, holy and perfect, remade after the image of Christ.

Paul, I stand by what I said, Galatians 5:16-18 is speaking of the Holy Spirit not our spirit. This game playing has gone on too long.

Have a nice day.

Dave

 

[Genez]

I did not say Jesus’ Spirit needed to be remade. I said that the believer’s spirit is remade in the image of Jesus’ Spirit.

"But as I said, for the born again believer, from my perspective, walking in spirit, and walking in the Holy Spirit, are the same thing, since his own spirit is pure, holy and perfect, remade after the image of Christ.

By "his own spirit” I meant “the believer’s own spirit. Had I meant “Jesus’ Spirit", or "the Holy Spirit”, I would have capitalised “His Spirit”.

The human spirit is our spiritual apparatus given to us by God, to connect our soul (which is not spirit) with God.
The human spirit makes us alive to God's Word by means of the power (grace) of God.

Our human spirit is not remade. It is birthed by the Holy Spirit when we are born again.

"That which is born of the flesh is flesh {from the mother's womb} . . .​

And that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6​

​

Our human spirit itself was born fresh.
It was not remade.

Grace and peace ...

.

 

[PaulThomson]

The human spirit is our spiritual apparatus given to us by God, to connect our soul (which is not spirit) with God.
The human spirit makes us alive to God's Word by means of the power (grace) of God.

Our human spirit is not remade. It is birthed by the Holy Spirit when we are born again.

"That which is born of the flesh is flesh {from the mother's womb} . . .​

And that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6​

​

Our human spirit itself was born fresh.
It was not remade.

Grace and peace ...

.

Will the new heaven and earth be remade or newly born? God replaces one heaven and earth with another, but this could equally be described as God restoring the world to it’s original perfection. My assertion was that the spirit we have before regeneration is imperfect and therefore inconsistently communicates with God. But the spirit we have after regeneration is perfect, and communicates clearly with God. Of course, if we are leaning on what our flesh or mind are determining to be fact, we will still go astray. But if we walk according to our renewed spirit we are essentially also walking according to the Holy Spirit who is resident in that renewed spirit.

 

[PaulThomson]

Paul, I stand by what I said, Galatians 5:16-18 is speaking of the Holy Spirit not our spirit. This game playing has gone on too long.

Have a nice day.

Dave

Grace and peace, Dave.

 

[Genez]

Will the new heaven and earth be remade or newly born?

Took me years to learn the following:

There are to be TWO. Not One. New heavens, and new earths!

The first one.
It will be the new heavens and new earth of the Millennium.
The Millennium will be a remake. Not newly born.

Then, after the one thousand years are completed?
The new earth of the Millennium will be done away with on the Day of the Lord!

At that point the first new heaven and earth will be utterly destroyed!
Destroyed by one huge massive destruction of everything by nuclear fission/fusion.
For it says, the elements will melt. It will be on the atomic level for the destruction!

Then after its destruction?
Will come God's replacement. To be the final everlasting new heavens and new earth!
This one will be newly created (not remade).
But, created only after the first Millennium's heavens and earth will be burned up on a molecular level!

Here!

​

But the day of the Lord will come like a thief; on that day the heavens will pass away ​

with a loud noise, the elements will burn and be dissolved, and the earth and the works ​

on it will be disclosed. Since all these things are to be dissolved in this way, it is clear what ​

sort of people you should be in holy conduct and godliness as you wait for the day of God ​

and hasten its coming. Because of that day, the heavens will be dissolved with fire and the ​

elements will melt with heat. But based on his promise, we wait for new heavens and a new ​

earth, the home of righteousness. 2 Peter 3:10-13​

The word 'elements' is the same word used for the periodic table found in chemistry classes.
The melting of the elements will be as one ultra massive nuclear fusion/fission taking place on the atomic level!

Then after all that is over?
Then...
We will see the everlasting new heavens and new earth…
Called the home of righteousness!

But based on his promise, we wait for new heavens and a new ​

earth, the home of righteousness. 2 Peter 3:13​

grace and peace ...........

 

[PaulThomson]

Took me years to learn the following:

There are to be TWO. Not One. New heavens, and new earths!

The first one.
It will be the new heavens and new earth of the Millennium.
The Millennium will be a remake. Not newly born.

Then, after the one thousand years are completed?
The new earth of the Millennium will be done away with on the Day of the Lord!

At that point the first new heaven and earth will be utterly destroyed!
Destroyed by one huge massive destruction of everything by nuclear fission/fusion.
For it says, the elements will melt. It will be on the atomic level for the destruction!

Then after its destruction?
Will come God's replacement. To be the final everlasting new heavens and new earth!
This one will be newly created (not remade).
But, created only after the first Millennium's heavens and earth will be burned up on a molecular level!

Here!

​

But the day of the Lord will come like a thief; on that day the heavens will pass away ​

with a loud noise, the elements will burn and be dissolved, and the earth and the works ​

on it will be disclosed. Since all these things are to be dissolved in this way, it is clear what ​

sort of people you should be in holy conduct and godliness as you wait for the day of God ​

and hasten its coming. Because of that day, the heavens will be dissolved with fire and the ​

elements will melt with heat. But based on his promise, we wait for new heavens and a new ​

earth, the home of righteousness. 2 Peter 3:10-13​

The word 'elements' is the same word used for the periodic table found in chemistry classes.
The melting of the elements will be as one ultra massive nuclear fusion/fission taking place on the atomic level!

Then after all that is over?
Then...
We will see the everlasting new heavens and new earth…
Called the home of righteousness!

But based on his promise, we wait for new heavens and a new ​

earth, the home of righteousness. 2 Peter 3:13​

grace and peace ...........

My understanding of scripture is that during the millennium it will be the same earth as we have now, but the saints and Christ will supervise the nations during a process of the planet’s repair/restoration/rehabilitation. And after the 1000 years, the universe will be reduced to atoms, or pehaps energy, and then the atoms or the energy will be reassembled into a new heaven and a new earth. I guess we will find out for sure when the Lord returns.

 

[Genez]

My understanding of scripture is that during the millennium it will be the same earth as we have now, but the saints and Christ will supervise the nations during a process of the planet’s repair/restoration/rehabilitation. And after the 1000 years, the universe will be reduced to atoms, or pehaps energy, and then the atoms or the energy will be reassembled into a new heaven and a new earth. I guess we will find out for sure when the Lord returns.

It will be something that we can not dream nor imagine about.

 

[Kroogz]

Took me years to learn the following:

There are to be TWO. Not One. New heavens, and new earths!

The first one.
It will be the new heavens and new earth of the Millennium.
The Millennium will be a remake. Not newly born.

Then, after the one thousand years are completed?
The new earth of the Millennium will be done away with on the Day of the Lord!

At that point the first new heaven and earth will be utterly destroyed!
Destroyed by one huge massive destruction of everything by nuclear fission/fusion.
For it says, the elements will melt. It will be on the atomic level for the destruction!

Then after its destruction?
Will come God's replacement. To be the final everlasting new heavens and new earth!
This one will be newly created (not remade).
But, created only after the first Millennium's heavens and earth will be burned up on a molecular level!

Here!

​

But the day of the Lord will come like a thief; on that day the heavens will pass away ​

with a loud noise, the elements will burn and be dissolved, and the earth and the works ​

on it will be disclosed. Since all these things are to be dissolved in this way, it is clear what ​

sort of people you should be in holy conduct and godliness as you wait for the day of God ​

and hasten its coming. Because of that day, the heavens will be dissolved with fire and the ​

elements will melt with heat. But based on his promise, we wait for new heavens and a new ​

earth, the home of righteousness. 2 Peter 3:10-13​

The word 'elements' is the same word used for the periodic table found in chemistry classes.
The melting of the elements will be as one ultra massive nuclear fusion/fission taking place on the atomic level!

Then after all that is over?
Then...
We will see the everlasting new heavens and new earth…
Called the home of righteousness!

But based on his promise, we wait for new heavens and a new ​

earth, the home of righteousness. 2 Peter 3:13​

grace and peace ...........

It is all part of the Angelic conflict. Unbelievers will be without excuse. Satan will be without excuse.

Throughout the scriptures, humans are given every type of environment and possible scenario to create a perfect utopia on our own........It cannot and will not ever happen. It is a witness to Satan........He cannot do it and is rightly judged.

 

[Genez]

It is all part of the Angelic conflict. Unbelievers will be without excuse. Satan will be without excuse.

Throughout the scriptures, humans are given every type of environment and possible scenario to create a perfect utopia on our own........It cannot and will not ever happen. It is a witness to Satan........He cannot do it and is rightly judged.

That is a hard truth that Satan will choke on.

Satan thought he was perfectly right to think he could make himself to be as the Most High.

Wellthen?

God being a righteous and just gentleman, has been giving Satan various ways to prove himself right!
Satan does not only suffer from a denial of reality.
Its an ego-maniacal DEFIANCE of reality.

When we are in our eternal home?
We will not be hearing any screams coming from the Lake of Fire that God cheated him.
That God was unfair.

If we should wish to take a peek?
We will be hearing just one thing coming from the Lake of Fire.

That, Jesus is Lord!

......

 

[Kroogz]

That is a hard truth that Satan will choke on.

Satan thought he was perfectly right to think he could make himself to be as the Most High.

Wellthen?

God being a righteous and just gentleman, has been giving Satan various ways to prove himself right!
Satan does not only suffer from a denial of reality.
Its an ego-maniacal DEFIANCE of reality.

When we are in our eternal home?
We will not be hearing any screams coming from the Lake of Fire that God cheated him.
That God was unfair.

If we should wish to take a peek?
We will be hearing just one thing coming from the Lake of Fire.

That, Jesus is Lord!

......

Amen Brother. On judgment Day, Every knee will bow........And STAY bowed for eternity.......Believers, unbelievers, angels and fallen angels. The Lord Jesus Christ IS Lord of all.

Matt 7:22-23
Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’
Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

 

[frederickdoc]

Amen Brother. On judgment Day, Every knee will bow........And STAY bowed for eternity.......Believers, unbelievers, angels and fallen angels. The Lord Jesus Christ IS Lord of all.

Matt 7:22-23
Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’
Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

That working without the Holy Spirit and coping the Anointing ,there is scripture in That only God has the Anointing .Kook just like Satan all prettied up for the show