Sabbath or Sunday which one is for the true followers of Chirst?

[chubbena]

The biggest problem I have with Sabbath keeping is the attitudes of some of those who observe the Sabbath and insist that it is required for salvation. It logically follows in their thinking that everyone who does not observe the Sabbath is unsaved and still in their sin. I know..I fully believed it myself as a Sabbatarian.

You have read post #261, haven't you? Some think that anyone who does observe the Sabbath is unsaved.
What does our thought worth?

 

[KohenMatt]

Galatians 3:10-12
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

If you are going to preach the sabbath as holy because the Law says so then you must follow all the rest of the law as well. You can't just cherry pick which part of the law you want to observe and which you don't.


Hebrews 4:9-11

[SUP]9 [/SUP]There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

The people of God? They have ceased from their own works? What about keeping all the commandments and working at the law? How did they cease from working at the Law?

Maybe they were given rest? As a gift? What does sabbath mean again? Oh yeah, it means rest. Who can give us this Rest? This Sabbath from the ministration of death and condemnation and curse.

There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. I wonder why that is?

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Yes, Grandpa. If people are seeking to be justified by the Law, then they must follow all of it and not cherry-pick, just like Galatians says. But for the thousandth time, no one here is bringing justification or salvation into the discussion of keeping the Sabbath or the Law. Only YOU are.

The great thing though, is that the Law was never intended to justify. God never planned it that way. So just because Paul spoke against the Galatians who erroneously believed that, doesn't mean you throw out the Law altogether. We follow the Law for the purpose God gave it: to draw people closer to God in every facet of their day and to teach them how to live in response to God graciously choosing to dwell among them.

Yet the fact of the matter is, God DID set the Sabbath apart as Holy. He DID make it different from all the other days of the week. It is the only day of the week that He told His people to treat differently than all of the other days. And, He said that it was set apart forever. If you believe otherwise, that is between you and God. Reasoning otherwise cannot be determined by looking at Paul's correction of people who were erroneously following God's instructions.

Nowhere in the Bible, even in the NT, does God change or do away with the Sabbath; He corrects those who are mistreating it. Yes, Jesus' life, death and resurrection gives us rest from the curse of sin and death that separates us from God. It provides us an eternal rest. But nowhere in those verses in Hebrews 4 does it do away with a physical keeping of the Sabbath.

If you choose not to observe the Sabbath, that is fine. You are not in danger of losing your salvation.
I choose to honor God by observing the Sabbath and I am tremendously blessed for it.
You may choose not to observe any of the commandments in the Law, and that is fine. You are not in danger of losing your salvation.
I choose to keep and follow the commandments because Jesus said to. And I am blessed for it.

Both of us will be in the Kingdom of God.

 

[KohenMatt]

Some food for thought from my Shabbat reading this morning. As believers of Jesus, the Jew, and King of the Jews, and adherents of the Shepherd Who brought the strangers of the world in to His own Flock, it is good food for thought, amen.

Num 15:15
As for the congregation, there shall be one statute both for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you, a statute for ever throughout your generations; as ye are, so shall the stranger be before the LORD.

16
One law and one ordinance shall be both for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you. {P}

Do not say in your heart, the commandments are just for Israel, when Jesus, Yeshua, has clearly made of the two, one in His blood, amen.

That stuck out to me as well in this week's portion.


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to JaumeJ again.

 

[KohenMatt]

The biggest problem I have with Sabbath keeping is the attitudes of some of those who observe the Sabbath and insist that it is required for salvation. It logically follows in their thinking that everyone who does not observe the Sabbath is unsaved and still in their sin. I know..I fully believed it myself as a Sabbatarian.

And I would agree with you Roger. I have a big problem with that as well.

What I would caution you on however, is to not spend too much time in this forum talking about Sabbath-keepers who have that same mentality, when just about every Sabbath-keeper here doesn't have that mentality. Just be cautious that you don't become a basher of all those who keep the Sabbath. Just as I caution my pro-Sabbath family here not to condemn those who choose not to keep the Sabbath, I would encourage you to do the same on the other end of the spectrum.

But I do agree with you: those who elevate the Sabbath to a point of determining salvation are in error, and should be addressed as the Lord leads. But it doesn't mean coming against those who follow the Sabbath and belief it is taught as applicable today.

But regardless, a Blessed Sabbath to you and yours!

 

[chubbena]

Probably no one here would say he does not love God so it boils down to how scripture is interpreted so let's go from there...

 

[KohenMatt]

Here is an example I find pertinent and helpful to the discussion....

Let's say I build a car for my friend.
And upon reception he tries to fly with the car.
Time and time again, he tries to fly it and fails, often with terrible consequences.
Finally, I go to him and say, "Look, this doesn't work and you're looking like a fool when you try to do it. Stop."
Do I get rid of the car and say it's useless and without benefit?

Or do I find someone who will use it appropriately?

 

[chubbena]

So you are saying 1 Tim 1:5-11
The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. Some have departed from these and have turned to meaningless talk. They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm. We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

In other words, it tells us what sin is so we may live according to the Designer's will.

 

[sparkman]

And I would agree with you Roger. I have a big problem with that as well.

What I would caution you on however, is to not spend too much time in this forum talking about Sabbath-keepers who have that same mentality, when just about every Sabbath-keeper here doesn't have that mentality. Just be cautious that you don't become a basher of all those who keep the Sabbath. Just as I caution my pro-Sabbath family here not to condemn those who choose not to keep the Sabbath, I would encourage you to do the same on the other end of the spectrum.

But I do agree with you: those who elevate the Sabbath to a point of determining salvation are in error, and should be addressed as the Lord leads. But it doesn't mean coming against those who follow the Sabbath and belief it is taught as applicable today.

But regardless, a Blessed Sabbath to you and yours!

Hi Matt,

I agree with you and am trying to frame my comments to ensure that I am not misunderstood in that regard. I don't consider myself to be a basher of those who are observing Saturday due to conscience or because they feel it is a blessing to them.

Regards,

Robert

 

[TruthFromFrank]

Exodus 20:[SUP]8 [/SUP]Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
[SUP]10 [/SUP]But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

[SUP]11 [/SUP]For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

(a commandment) don't we all agree?

Mark 6:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands?

Jesus keeping the Sabbath not sunday.

To be a Christian mean to be a follower of Jesus Christ so why are so many Christians avoiding this one simple thing. Sunday worship did not come from Christ.

John 5:
[SUP]46 [/SUP]For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.
[SUP]47 [/SUP]But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

The answer to your question - SABBATH (SATURDAY)

 

[TruthFromFrank]

I'm confused.

Where is this question coming from, and what is it in regards to?

I replied to a statement, Originally Posted by ChosenbyHim, that the Sabbath is not for Christians, but as a sign to Israel .
The first seventh day after creation, God called Sabbath and He blessed it and that was already an institution that man need to rest on the Sabbath. There were no Jews at that time but already a verbal instruction from God to man. So, Sabbath keeping is for all of mankind today. So to say that the Sabbath is only for the Jews or Israelites, is not true.

 

[TruthFromFrank]

If you choose not to observe the Sabbath, that is fine. You are not in danger of losing your salvation.
I choose to honor God by observing the Sabbath and I am tremendously blessed for it.
You may choose not to observe any of the commandments in the Law, and that is fine. You are not in danger of losing your salvation.
I choose to keep and follow the commandments because Jesus said to. And I am blessed for it.

Both of us will be in the Kingdom of God.

Twice you have made the statement 'You are not in danger of losing your salvation'.
You seem to be pretty sure of yourself.
If you choose not to observe the Sabbath, that is fine. 'You are not in danger of losing your salvation'.
You may choose not to observe any of the commandments in the Law, and that is fine. 'You are not in danger of losing your salvation.'
Then you made a BOLD statement.
Both of us will be in the Kingdom of God.

As far as I am concerned, those who ignore God's instructions, do not Love God, and I do not think that they will be part of God's Kingdom. You cannot say to a person that he will be part of God's Kingdom if he disobeys God's Commandments willingly and knowingly or that he is not in danger losing his salvation. You are either right or wrong and not lukewarm.

 

[sparkman]

Twice you have made the statement 'You are not in danger of losing your salvation'.
You seem to be pretty sure of yourself.
If you choose not to observe the Sabbath, that is fine. 'You are not in danger of losing your salvation'.
You may choose not to observe any of the commandments in the Law, and that is fine. 'You are not in danger of losing your salvation.'
Then you made a BOLD statement.
Both of us will be in the Kingdom of God.

As far as I am concerned, those who ignore God's instructions, do not Love God, and I do not think that they will be part of God's Kingdom. You cannot say to a person that he will be part of God's Kingdom if he disobeys God's Commandments willingly and knowingly or that he is not in danger losing his salvation. You are either right or wrong and not lukewarm.

You should read all of Romans 14, including Romans 14:4 Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.

 

[TruthFromFrank]

This article is from GotQuestions.org and is very sound in terms of this topic. Christians have the freedom to observe any day of the week, and should not judge those who differ on their opinion. I was a former Sabbath keeper who attended Worldwide Church of God for about 15 years. I no longer observe the Sabbath because I believe it is part of the Old Covenant and no longer required of Christians, but I still think the concept of using time to honor God is valid.

Question: "Does God require Sabbath-keeping of Christians?"

Answer: In Colossians 2:16-17, the apostle Paul declares, “Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.” Similarly, Romans 14:5 states, “One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.” These Scriptures make it clear that, for the Christian, Sabbath-keeping is a matter of spiritual freedom, not a command from God. Sabbath-keeping is an issue on which God’s Word instructs us not to judge each other. Sabbath-keeping is a matter about which each Christian needs to be fully convinced in his/her own mind.

In the early chapters of the book of Acts, the first Christians were predominantly Jews. When Gentiles began to receive the gift of salvation through Jesus Christ, the Jewish Christians had a dilemma. What aspects of the Mosaic Law and Jewish tradition should Gentile Christians be instructed to obey? The apostles met and discussed the issue in the Jerusalem council (Acts 15). The decision was, “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood” (Acts 15:19-20). Sabbath-keeping was not one of the commands the apostles felt was necessary to force on Gentile believers. It is inconceivable that the apostles would neglect to include Sabbath-keeping if it was God’s command for Christians to observe the Sabbath day.

A common error in the Sabbath-keeping debate is the concept that the Sabbath was the day of worship. Groups such as the Seventh Day Adventists hold that God requires the church service to be held on Saturday, the Sabbath day. That is not what the Sabbath command was. The Sabbath command was to do no work on the Sabbath day (Exodus 20:8-11). Nowhere in Scripture is the Sabbath day commanded to be the day of worship. Yes, Jews in Old Testament, New Testament, and modern times use Saturday as the day of worship, but that is not the essence of the Sabbath command. In the book of Acts, whenever a meeting is said to be on the Sabbath, it is a meeting of Jews and/or Gentile converts to Judaism, not Christians.

When did the early Christians meet? Acts 2:46-47 gives us the answer, “Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.” If there was a day that Christians met regularly, it was the first day of the week (our Sunday), not the Sabbath day (our Saturday) (Acts 20:7; 1 Corinthians 16:2). In honor of Christ’s resurrection on Sunday, the early Christians observed Sunday not as the “Christian Sabbath” but as a day to especially worship Jesus Christ.

Is there anything wrong with worshipping on Saturday, the Jewish Sabbath? Absolutely not! We should worship God every day, not just on Saturday or Sunday! Many churches today have both Saturday and Sunday services. There is freedom in Christ (Romans 8:21; 2 Corinthians 3:17; Galatians 5:1). Should a Christian practice Sabbath-keeping, that is, not working on Saturdays? If a Christian feels led to do so, absolutely, yes (Romans 14:5). However, those who choose to practice Sabbath-keeping should not judge those who do not keep the Sabbath (Colossians 2:16). Further, those who do not keep the Sabbath should avoid being a stumbling block (1 Corinthians 8:9) to those who do keep the Sabbath. Galatians 5:13-15 sums up the whole issue: “You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love. The entire law is summed up in a single command: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.”

Recommended Resources: The End of the Law: Mosaic Covenant in Pauline Theology by Jason Meyer and Logos Bible Software.

Read more: Does God require Sabbath-keeping of Christians?

All I can say is that you need to read Heb 10:26-27, Rom 1:18-25, Heb 6:6 and 1 Tim 6:14 URGENTLY.

[TD="class: xl65"][/TD]

 

[TruthFromFrank]

You should read all of Romans 14, including Romans 14:4 Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.

Only the 'Saved' will be in the Kingdom of God one day.

 

[TruthFromFrank]

This article is from GotQuestions.org and is very sound in terms of this topic. Christians have the freedom to observe any day of the week, and should not judge those who differ on their opinion. I was a former Sabbath keeper who attended Worldwide Church of God for about 15 years. I no longer observe the Sabbath because I believe it is part of the Old Covenant and no longer required of Christians, but I still think the concept of using time to honor God is valid.

Question: "Does God require Sabbath-keeping of Christians?"

Answer: In Colossians 2:16-17, the apostle Paul declares, “Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.” Similarly, Romans 14:5 states, “One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.” These Scriptures make it clear that, for the Christian, Sabbath-keeping is a matter of spiritual freedom, not a command from God. Sabbath-keeping is an issue on which God’s Word instructs us not to judge each other. Sabbath-keeping is a matter about which each Christian needs to be fully convinced in his/her own mind.

In the early chapters of the book of Acts, the first Christians were predominantly Jews. When Gentiles began to receive the gift of salvation through Jesus Christ, the Jewish Christians had a dilemma. What aspects of the Mosaic Law and Jewish tradition should Gentile Christians be instructed to obey? The apostles met and discussed the issue in the Jerusalem council (Acts 15). The decision was, “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood” (Acts 15:19-20). Sabbath-keeping was not one of the commands the apostles felt was necessary to force on Gentile believers. It is inconceivable that the apostles would neglect to include Sabbath-keeping if it was God’s command for Christians to observe the Sabbath day.

A common error in the Sabbath-keeping debate is the concept that the Sabbath was the day of worship. Groups such as the Seventh Day Adventists hold that God requires the church service to be held on Saturday, the Sabbath day. That is not what the Sabbath command was. The Sabbath command was to do no work on the Sabbath day (Exodus 20:8-11). Nowhere in Scripture is the Sabbath day commanded to be the day of worship. Yes, Jews in Old Testament, New Testament, and modern times use Saturday as the day of worship, but that is not the essence of the Sabbath command. In the book of Acts, whenever a meeting is said to be on the Sabbath, it is a meeting of Jews and/or Gentile converts to Judaism, not Christians.

When did the early Christians meet? Acts 2:46-47 gives us the answer, “Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.” If there was a day that Christians met regularly, it was the first day of the week (our Sunday), not the Sabbath day (our Saturday) (Acts 20:7; 1 Corinthians 16:2). In honor of Christ’s resurrection on Sunday, the early Christians observed Sunday not as the “Christian Sabbath” but as a day to especially worship Jesus Christ.

Is there anything wrong with worshipping on Saturday, the Jewish Sabbath? Absolutely not! We should worship God every day, not just on Saturday or Sunday! Many churches today have both Saturday and Sunday services. There is freedom in Christ (Romans 8:21; 2 Corinthians 3:17; Galatians 5:1). Should a Christian practice Sabbath-keeping, that is, not working on Saturdays? If a Christian feels led to do so, absolutely, yes (Romans 14:5). However, those who choose to practice Sabbath-keeping should not judge those who do not keep the Sabbath (Colossians 2:16). Further, those who do not keep the Sabbath should avoid being a stumbling block (1 Corinthians 8:9) to those who do keep the Sabbath. Galatians 5:13-15 sums up the whole issue: “You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love. The entire law is summed up in a single command: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.”

Recommended Resources: The End of the Law: Mosaic Covenant in Pauline Theology by Jason Meyer and Logos Bible Software.

Read more: Does God require Sabbath-keeping of Christians?

All I can say is that you need to read Heb 10:26-27, Rom 1:18-25, Heb 6:6 and 1 Tim 6:14 URGENTLY.

[TD="class: xl65"][/TD]

 

[chubbena]

Twice you have made the statement 'You are not in danger of losing your salvation'.
You seem to be pretty sure of yourself.
If you choose not to observe the Sabbath, that is fine. 'You are not in danger of losing your salvation'.
You may choose not to observe any of the commandments in the Law, and that is fine. 'You are not in danger of losing your salvation.'
Then you made a BOLD statement.
Both of us will be in the Kingdom of God.

As far as I am concerned, those who ignore God's instructions, do not Love God, and I do not think that they will be part of God's Kingdom. You cannot say to a person that he will be part of God's Kingdom if he disobeys God's Commandments willingly and knowingly or that he is not in danger losing his salvation. You are either right or wrong and not lukewarm.

you are right. If one is convinced that keeping the Sabbath is out of love then there shouldn't be both yes and no. Thanks for waking me up.

 

[Kerry]

To the OP, neither one. Faith must be in the cross of Christ or your wasting your time and God will have nothing to do with it.

 

[JaumeJ]

The OP is inquiring from those who believe Yeshua, Jesus; that is to say, those who believe Him, (have faith in Him.)

The OP is not asking which is the true demonstration of faith, it is asking how each believes regarding the Sabbath, or Sunday.

 

[sparkman]

And I would agree with you Roger. I have a big problem with that as well.

What I would caution you on however, is to not spend too much time in this forum talking about Sabbath-keepers who have that same mentality, when just about every Sabbath-keeper here doesn't have that mentality. Just be cautious that you don't become a basher of all those who keep the Sabbath. Just as I caution my pro-Sabbath family here not to condemn those who choose not to keep the Sabbath, I would encourage you to do the same on the other end of the spectrum.

But I do agree with you: those who elevate the Sabbath to a point of determining salvation are in error, and should be addressed as the Lord leads. But it doesn't mean coming against those who follow the Sabbath and belief it is taught as applicable today.

But regardless, a Blessed Sabbath to you and yours!

Hi Matt,

Just one more remark..as I said, I agree with you on this..but just the title of this thread seems to indicate that the poster thinks those who don't keep Sabbath are not true believers of Christ...


I am glad to see that there are some who keep Sabbath but are not condemning of others who do not..however as I look at the posts in this room it seems to be more like the minority.

Regards,

Robert

 

[KohenMatt]

Twice you have made the statement 'You are not in danger of losing your salvation'.
You seem to be pretty sure of yourself.
If you choose not to observe the Sabbath, that is fine. 'You are not in danger of losing your salvation'.
You may choose not to observe any of the commandments in the Law, and that is fine. 'You are not in danger of losing your salvation.'
Then you made a BOLD statement.
Both of us will be in the Kingdom of God.

As far as I am concerned, those who ignore God's instructions, do not Love God, and I do not think that they will be part of God's Kingdom. You cannot say to a person that he will be part of God's Kingdom if he disobeys God's Commandments willingly and knowingly or that he is not in danger losing his salvation. You are either right or wrong and not lukewarm.

The caveat in my statements is whether God has laid Sabbath on someone's heart, and their response to that calling. Our relationship with God is about progressive revelation, where He is always teaching us, and always causing us to see things in our life, and in His Kingdom, that we have never seen or known before.

Think about the things you know and do today in your relationship with Him, that you didn't do last year. Did you love God last year? Were you trying to live your life in an honoring way? I would hope so. But just because you didn't know everything and didn't do everything doesn't mean you were disobeying God and not loving Him. Similarly, how many things are you going to know and do next year that you're not doing now? Do we still love God today and are trying to live our lives in an honoring way? Again, I would hope so.

The reason I said that "Both of us will be in the Kingdom of God" is because Jesus said it.

Matthew 5:19
"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Both the obedient and the disobedient will be there, but the ones who DO obey will be considered greater because showed their love by walking out obedience.


We walk on a slippery slope when we imply that someone has to obey all of the commandments or else they don't love God. That's where we get to the point of requiring everyone to do everything in the Law in order to be saved. Because it means that if you are not wearing tassels on the ends of your garments (Num 15:38), they you are willingly and and knowingly disobeying God's commandments.

Are you wearing your tassels right now, Frank? Because according to your standard, if you're not wearing them you don't love God.