Salvation Not Possible Without Works

[eternally-gratefull]

No I'm not word twisting. I'm asking a simple question. I understood the rest of your post, I'm making a new point. You are saying that all is needed is belief. Well James states that if you have no works your faith is dead. So in that case the man with belief, no works, and a dead faith, will be saved.

Again you have it backwards.

James is saying faith saved, mere belief does not. Those who have faith will have works (IE Test if your faith is real or not)

 

[hadaza]

With the possible exception of #1, the rest of these "follow" salvation do they not?

(just saying...........and belief isn't a work.........)

I get what you both guys are saying, let's say it this way..
what did I do to receive God's gift?: I believed in Jesus as God's son and his sacrifice and asked him to live and reign in my life.

what do I do because of that grace?: 2, 3, 4....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If you would:

WHAT HAVE I DONE TO RECEIVE SALVATION?

1) I believed the Lord concerning the Gospel of His Son. PERIOD.

2) I follow Him as my Shepherd, in Him will I trust.

3) I hearken to Him as my Lord, the Master of my soul.

4) I walk the path Jehovah sets, for He alone knows the righteous path.

5) They who trust Him do enter into His Rest.

BELIEVE, more than just a concept.
​

That sounds like alot of self there. Just to be honest bro.

As for me.

1. I admitted I was justly condemned
2. I cried out to God for help
3. I trusted God to do what he promised to do. Save me based on his sons death, (faith)

I was saved.

As a result

1. God has empowered me to deal with sin issues
2. God has empowered me to truly love others (not the love of the world I had before I was saved)
3. God has empowered me to learn his word, and more about him
4. At times I fail, yet God still empowers me to bring me back (chastening of God)

No matter how far I have walked away from God. He always finds me and brings me back

 

[p_rehbein]

John 3:16) For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that WHOSOVER BELIEVETH in Him, should not perish, BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE.


(why would Jesus lie to us?)

Ephesians 2:8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 .) Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 .) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


Who did the WORK? Jesus DID!

Now, if you want to discuss sanctification or the "fruits" of our salvation that's a different story.

 

[Spokenpassage]

Faith -> grace -> fruits -> sanctification

Ephesians 2:8-9 -> Romans 7:4 -> Romans 6:22

 

[cfultz3]

With the possible exception of #1, the rest of these "follow" salvation do they not?

(just saying...........and belief isn't a work.........)

'to believe' is an action (verb). 'Work' is another word for 'deed' in Scripture. One must perform the deed of 'to believe' concerning the Son to receive salvation. Without such an action of believing, there is no salvation. And as you would agree, a dead faith is no faith at all. Faith must be active in hearkening (opposite of stubbornness).

Yes, they follow 'to believe', seeing that one must believe before they would perform the others mentioned.

What happens if I do not hearken to the Lord leading me, as some of the Hebrews did?

What happens if I do not come to know His ways while leading me, as some of the Hebrews did?

That is, what happens to one with a stubborn heart, while being lead by the Lord, as some of the Hebrews had?

Therefore, it says that we are to watch over each other so that sort of heart will not be found in us. If we are warned of such, then we must hearken to the Lord, come to know His ways, follow the Shepherd, and by all means, trust Him or else we too can fall in the 'wilderness'.

 

[p_rehbein]

'to believe' is an action (verb). 'Work' is another word for 'deed' in Scripture. One must perform the deed of 'to believe' concerning the Son to receive salvation. Without such an action of believing, there is no salvation. And as you would agree, a dead faith is no faith at all. Faith must be active in hearkening (opposite of stubbornness).

Yes, they follow 'to believe', seeing that one must believe before they would perform the others mentioned.

What happens if I do not hearken to the Lord leading me, as some of the Hebrews did?

What happens if I do not come to know His ways while leading me, as some of the Hebrews did?

That is, what happens to one with a stubborn heart, while being lead by the Lord, as some of the Hebrews had?

Therefore, it says that we are to watch over each other so that sort of heart will not be found in us. If we are warned of such, then we must hearken to the Lord, come to know His ways, follow the Shepherd, and by all means, trust Him or else we too can fall in the 'wilderness'.

I disagree strongly............belief/faith is not a "work." Simply not true in my opinion............but, hey, GOOD TRY!

 

[cfultz3]

That sounds like alot of self there. Just to be honest bro.

As for me.

1. I admitted I was justly condemned
2. I cried out to God for help
3. I trusted God to do what he promised to do. Save me based on his sons death, (faith)

I was saved.

Sounds a lot like my list, brother. The point of that post was what I did to receive salvation, just as you listed what you did also to receive salvation. Perhaps, a misunderstanding?

As a result

1. God has empowered me to deal with sin issues
2. God has empowered me to truly love others (not the love of the world I had before I was saved)
3. God has empowered me to learn his word, and more about him
4. At times I fail, yet God still empowers me to bring me back (chastening of God)[/B]

Yes, because of the actions you and I listed.

No matter how far I have walked away from God. He always finds me and brings me back

Peace.....

 

[p_rehbein]

dictionary.search.yahoo.com: belief

n. noun

• The mental act, condition, or habit of placing trust or confidence in another.
  My belief in you is as strong as ever.
  
• Mental acceptance of and conviction in the truth, actuality, or validity of something.
  His explanation of what happened defies belief.
  
• Something believed or accepted as true, especially a particular tenet or a body of tenets accepted by a group of persons.

Synonyms

• credence - credit - faith

dictionary.search.yahoo.com: work

n. noun

• Physical or mental effort or activity directed toward the production or accomplishment of something.
  
• A job; employment.
  looking for work.
  
• A trade, profession, or other means of livelihood.

adj. adjective

• Of, relating to, designed for, or engaged in work.

v. verb

• To exert oneself physically or mentally in order to do, make, or accomplish something.
  
• To be employed; have a job.
  
• To function; operate.
  How does this latch work?

Synonyms

• labor - toil - drudgery - travail

please note the list of Synonyms also...........

 

[cfultz3]

hey, GOOD TRY!

Please do not go there. It is simply a discussion, no deception is meant.

G2041 ἔργον

From ἔργω ergō (a primary but obsolete word; to work); toil (as an effort or occupation); by implication an act: - deed, doing, labour, work.

 

[p_rehbein]

Please do not go there. It is simply a discussion, no deception is meant.

G2041 ἔργον

From ἔργω ergō (a primary but obsolete word; to work); toil (as an effort or occupation); by implication an act: - deed, doing, labour, work.

Not suggesting deception..................but, I see you are becoming agitated with the conversation.........and it's my supper time...................There is no Scripture I can find that states "faith/belief" is a WORK................maybe you have one......that specifically states this?

Anyway, God bless.........

 

[cfultz3]

Not suggesting deception..................but, I see you are becoming agitated with the conversation.........and it's my supper time...................There is no Scripture I can find that states "faith/belief" is a WORK................maybe you have one......that specifically states this?

Anyway, God bless.........

Is not faith in the Son a requirement, something we must do in order to come under the New Covenant?

I am not at all agitated, just misunderstand, 'nice try'.

 

[Spokenpassage]

Please do not go there. It is simply a discussion, no deception is meant.

G2041 ἔργον

From ἔργω ergō (a primary but obsolete word; to work); toil (as an effort or occupation); by implication an act: - deed, doing, labour, work.

If faith is a work, then do you believe that you achieved the entire law by the work of your faith rather than the work of God? That would be your only conclusion because the bible says faith saves, and if your faith is a "work" then you just achieved salvation on your own.

The Word of God does not teach this.

 

[Spokenpassage]

Faith taken from Ephesians 2:8

πίστεως = Pistis (It's from Peithô, "Persuade, to be persuaded.") - properly persuasion (be persuaded, come to trust); faith

Means belief, trust, confidence. Pistis is always a gift from God, and never something that can be produced by people. It's God's divine persuasion.

 

[cfultz3]

If faith is a work, then do you believe that you achieved the entire law by the work of your faith rather than the work of God? That would be your only conclusion because the bible says faith saves, and if your faith is a "work" then you just achieved salvation on your own.

The Word of God does not teach this.

It still remains that 'to believe' is active. The deed of 'to believe' in the Son is a deed we must do in order to come under His Covenant.

If faith (persuasion) is not the noun describing the deed of 'to believe', then what else can it be.

Only Jesus has 'achieved' the entire law. Because He did, He became the Author of Salvation to those who will believe in Him. Because I believe Him to be the true Author of Salvation, I performed the deed of 'to believe'. Placing my trust in Him is a sign that I am not able to have 'achieved' what He did, so I accept His obedience as mine.

The above is my conclusion.

Salvation is only obtainable through Jesus. And for me to obtain that salvation, I must do the required deed of 'to believe'.

You are correct, what you mentioned above is not taught in Scripture.

 

[cfultz3]

Faith taken from Ephesians 2:8

πίστεως = Pistis (It's from Peithô, "Persuade, to be persuaded.") - properly persuasion (be persuaded, come to trust); faith

Means belief, trust, confidence. Pistis is always a gift from God, and never something that can be produced by people. It's God's divine persuasion.

'be persuaded', 'come to trust'...........

 

[Spokenpassage]

'be persuaded', 'come to trust'...........

That would be Peithô, not Pistis....

 

[Spokenpassage]

It still remains that 'to believe' is active. The deed of 'to believe' in the Son is a deed we must do in order to come under His Covenant.

If faith (persuasion) is not the noun describing the deed of 'to believe', then what else can it be.

Only Jesus has 'achieved' the entire law. Because He did, He became the Author of Salvation to those who will believe in Him. Because I believe Him to be the true Author of Salvation, I performed the deed of 'to believe'. Placing my trust in Him is a sign that I am not able to have 'achieved' what He did, so I accept His obedience as mine.

The above is my conclusion.

Salvation is only obtainable through Jesus. And for me to obtain that salvation, I must do the required deed of 'to believe'.

You are correct, what you mentioned above is not taught in Scripture.

Then are you putting a distinction between the work of faith with the work of sanctification? To act in faith is not the same as good deeds of the Spirit.

 

[cfultz3]

That would be Peithô, not Pistis....

Hi Spokenpassage,

Please understand that I simply copied 'be persuaded', 'come to trust' from your post

Faith taken from Ephesians 2:8

πίστεως = Pistis (It's from Peithô, "Persuade, to be persuaded.") - properly persuasion (be persuaded, come to trust); faith

Means belief, trust, confidence. Pistis is always a gift from God, and never something that can be produced by people. It's God's divine persuasion.

 

[cfultz3]

Then are you putting a distinction between the work of faith with the work of sanctification? To act in faith is not the same as good deeds of the Spirit.

This is how I am understanding your post:

work of faith = the deed of: to believe.

work of sanctification = the deed of: to make holy.

Not understanding what you are asking. Please rephrase.

...

To act in faith: I did that because I trust God.

Good deeds of the Spirit: fruits of works done in conjunction with the Spirit.

....

Please, I am sorry. I am not understanding your question....