Sanctification

[Skinski7]

Even a thought exhibiting the contrary fruit is sin. Even if we are in the habit of taking our thoughts captive we still have bad thoughts.

Temptation is not sin.

Paul wrote...

1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

There is ALWAYS a means to escape sin.

James wrote this...

Jas 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Sin unto death involves an act of the will. A "wrong thought" is not a sin unto death, it can lead into a sin unto death if it is not put to death via the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ.

There is sin unto death and sin not unto death. Sin unto death is rebellion and that has ceased in the life of a genuine Christian. Sins not unto death are not rooted in a wicked heart but rather immaturity and ignorance. It is important to make the distinction. Many do not want to make the distinction because they wish to blend rebellion in with mistakes and believe in a provision which cloaks it all.

 

[shotgunner]

Kenneth c wrote.
a handful on here who have said they and we all will continue to sin every single day and even multiple times a day.

I would be one of those but that doesn't mean that there hasn't been a change. For instance, I don't believe that a drug addict and thief could continue to be a drug addict and thief after they were saved, at least not for long. They simply cannot sustain the same relationship to sin that they had before being saved. If they can then there has been no heart change and no salvation.

Possibly the confusion comes about because of our definitions of sin. Paul tell us that anything that is not of faith is sin. I see God as such a Holy and perfect God, so perfect that any sin no matter how insignificant makes us unworthy of Him. That's why we need the sacrifice of Jesus and why we must receive His grace. It's Jesus who makes us worthy.

Yes, I sin every day. When I ignore prayer time, or speak an angry word to my children or wife, thousands of things every day make me a sinner who must rely on grace. I don't go around committing adultery or stealing, nor do I consume the drugs I did before I was saved. It would be impossible for me to be a Christian and still do those things.


We also have to understand that baby Christians have to grow up, to have their minds renewed to God's word, particularly those who were never taught any Christian morals. Not saying morals save, just that for those the Holy Spirit is continually working on them and if they are really saved, they cannot and will not continue to sustain the same relationship to sin that they had before salvation. That's why we can't be so quick to judge. Only God knows the heart and only He sees when those we deem unsaved cry on their knees over their sins desperately wanting to be free.

 

[Skinski7]

A friend of mine was addicted to porn for many years. Upon his genuine repentance he forsook such evil completely, yet that did not mean he would never have a vivid porn image come to his mind. His mind had been completely corrupted over many years and such corruption in his memory didn't just go away. Yet when such an imagination would come to mind involuntarily he would immediately put it to death and thus he avoided lusting in his heart (a sin unto death).

Temptation is not sin. Yielding to temptation in both mind and body is sin.

 

[slave]

Even a thought exhibiting the contrary fruit is sin. Even if we are in the habit of taking our thoughts captive we still have bad thoughts. We still have thoughts that do not reflect the fruit of the spirit because we are not yet glorified. We are a work in progress. So yes, I sin daily. Not because I get up in the morning and set out to have bad thoughts but because I have a beating heart that gets its feeling hurt or still has hurt on my heart from the past. So therefore,I have a thought about the person that hurt me that isnt nice. It is sin. We ask the Lord to cleanse us and heal our hearts and this takes time and sometimes alot of time. When we feel like we have been wronged;its easy for satan to come in and inject thoughts and we fall for it. Noone is exempt from this right? Well, except our savior! He was sinless. He was perfect! That is why his righteousness is imputed upon us. That is what the Father sees when he looks at a saint who is striving for righteous and seeking holiness. The Father sees Christ' atonement.

I dont think these kinds of thread are a result of opposite thinking but a result of not saying it in a way so that others understand what we are thinking and also a mentality where people just want to be right no matter what. Im not naming names I am merely making an observation. That is mainly why I stay away for the most part from these kinds of threads. They are foolish back and forth

God is not a knowledge builder alone He is a Godly Spirit infuser first and foremost. We live in the Word which transforms our mind and thoughts. We also have a will that decides on the new transformed mind to exist in us or the Satanic influences to exist in us. It is not inevitable the temptations of sin wrought about in us by Satans relentless quest. It is, if you are a born-again Christian, the power of your will to allow the victory over Satan in Gods will to rule over him. It is not you debating Satan but it is you who allows whom you serve. Remembering God rules over Satan and Satan rules over you! So whom do you want to be enslaved to? It's one or the other. Humanism isn't even a player in this battlefield. Only your will to choose sides. The results are sin is not in the Spirit of God, and sin reigns in Satan's.

God's forgiveness of confessed sin is an altogether different subject that also is included. Yet, defined.

 

[posthuman]

Ok then, answer this.

Have genuine Christians ceased from the service of sin?

how should we define "ceased" ?

Since therefore Christ suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves with the same way of thinking, for whoever has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, so as to live for the rest of the time in the flesh no longer for human passions but for the will of God.
(1 Peter 4:1)​

why does he coincide suffering with cessation?
does this mean we haven't "ceased from sin" until we're persecuted by others?
or is Peter talking about a sort of self-immolating, Godly sorrow?

i think he's referring back to 3:18 here --

For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous,
that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit​

which would bring this back to our having been crucified with Him (past tense, ala Romans 6:1-11) when we believed, and were immersed into Him. certainly fits the text, don't you think? what with 3:19-20 expounding on baptism -- a past tense event in our lives as believers, done not in order to wash away sin but as the response of a good conscience toward our Redeemer?
Peter certainly encourages us to live Godly lives in keeping with the high calling we are preordained to -- no disagreement about that.

but what does it mean to "cease from sin"? is having been crucified to it enough?
Peter is after all speaking to ones he calls saved, having been provided everything necessary for life and godliness, having received sure promises of God, when he does all this encouraging to live holy lives.
does all that encouragement presuppose no encouragement is necessary?

i'm not disagreeing with this encouragement at all! i need it!
i just want to make sure i am motivated by the right reasons, and not setting aside my trust in Him, trading it for terror

 

[blondieindahouse]

Temptation is not sin.

Paul wrote...

1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

There is ALWAYS a means to escape sin.

James wrote this...

Jas 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Sin unto death involves an act of the will. A "wrong thought" is not a sin unto death, it can lead into a sin unto death if it is not put to death via the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ.

There is sin unto death and sin not unto death. Sin unto death is rebellion and that has ceased in the life of a genuine Christian. Sins not unto death are not rooted in a wicked heart but rather immaturity and ignorance. It is important to make the distinction. Many do not want to make the distinction because they wish to blend rebellion in with mistakes and believe in a provision which cloaks it all.

Thank you! I guess I am darn near perfect then But seriously,
I do escape it when I take captive of my thoughts.
When I first started doing this I was doing it literally almost every few seconds.I am not kidding! As time as gone on; I rarely have to take captive of my thoughts. Our journey walking with Christ is indeed a process of the Holy Spirit santifying us as we apply ourselves to all kingdom things and renewing our minds with the word of God. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God Romans 10:17

Thank you for pointing that out to me. It made it click in somehow. I dont act on these thoughts and I do take them captive. Ty

 

[posthuman]

The thing is that nowhere in the bible does it say or show you can commit adultery today confess it, commit that same adultery tomorrow confess it, commit it the next day and the next day and the next day.

except for right here:

“If your brother or sister sins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them.
Even if they sin against you seven times in a day and seven times come back to you saying ‘I repent,’ you must forgive them.”
The apostles said to the Lord, “Increase our faith!”
(Luke 17:3-5)


​

do i think the Lord is condoning sin here? NO WAY

 

[Skinski7]

I don't believe that a drug addict and thief could continue to be a drug addict and thief after they were saved, at least not for long.

Your problem is that you believe in a "salvation" which is purely forensic or abstract. This is why you can proclaim that one could still be engaged in stealing and be saved at the same time.

Is it the same for a rapist, murderer or child molester?

ie.

I don't believe that a child molester or serial killer could continue to molest children or murder after they were saved, at least not for long.

Skinski Edit.


What kind of salvation leaves one in the service of sin? That is not salvation.

You have bought into this nation that one "gets saved" and and yet can still "serve sin" and thus clearly the salvation you believe in is not s salvation FROM sin but rather a salvation in sin.

In your example the "salvation of the thief" and the "salvation of the drug addict" did not actually save them from those sins for they may still be in bondage to them.

Can you see the disconnect?

The Bible does not teach that. Paul wrote this...

Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

The salvation you believe omits any death of the old man and thus eliminates any end to the service of sin.

Can you see that?

Think of all the preachers you listen to or the books that you read. Do any of them ever preach on the crucifixion of the old man whereby the service of sin ceases?

Do any of them teach...

Luk 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
Luk 9:24 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.

The drug addict and thief have to DENY THEMSELVES AND TAKE UP THEIR CROSS DAILY. That means following stops...

Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Compare to...

Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Freedom from sin is resultant of the death of the old man. Our old man MUST die in order that we be raised up to the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ.

Salvation is found in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ and no-one whom is abiding in that Spirit is out getting drunk or ripping people off.

 

[posthuman]

Possibly the confusion comes about because of our definitions of sin. Paul tell us that anything that is not of faith is sin. I see God as such a Holy and perfect God, so perfect that any sin no matter how insignificant makes us unworthy of Him. That's why we need the sacrifice of Jesus and why we must receive His grace. It's Jesus who makes us worthy.

Yes, I sin every day. When I ignore prayer time, or speak an angry word to my children or wife, thousands of things every day make me a sinner who must rely on grace. I don't go around committing adultery or stealing, nor do I consume the drugs I did before I was saved. It would be impossible for me to be a Christian and still do those things.

i feel like everything that i do that falls short of God's glory is sin.

now ask me what i think i do that measures up to God's glory (?!)

rather, ask me how great is the mercy of the Lord!!

 

[shotgunner]

Your problem is that you believe in a "salvation" which is purely forensic or abstract. This is why you can proclaim that one could still be engaged in stealing and be saved at the same time.

Is it the same for a rapist, murderer or child molester?

ie. Skinski Edit.


What kind of salvation leaves one in the service of sin? That is not salvation.

You have bought into this nation that one "gets saved" and and yet can still "serve sin" and thus clearly the salvation you believe in is not s salvation FROM sin but rather a salvation in sin.

In your example the "salvation of the thief" and the "salvation of the drug addict" did not actually save them from those sins for they may still be in bondage to them.

Can you see the disconnect?

The Bible does not teach that. Paul wrote this...

Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

The salvation you believe omits any death of the old man and thus eliminates any end to the service of sin.

Can you see that?

Think of all the preachers you listen to or the books that you read. Do any of them ever preach on the crucifixion of the old man whereby the service of sin ceases?

Do any of them teach...

Luk 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
Luk 9:24 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.

The drug addict and thief have to DENY THEMSELVES AND TAKE UP THEIR CROSS DAILY. That means following stops...

Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Compare to...

Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Freedom from sin is resultant of the death of the old man. Our old man MUST die in order that we be raised up to the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ.

Salvation is found in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ and no-one whom is abiding in that Spirit is out getting drunk or ripping people off.

Listen bud, you need to get down off your rocking horse and learn how to read. If you don't understand what I said just ask and I'll try to help but don't accuse me of saying things I didn't say with a superior attitude. All that does is show your insecurity and adolescence.

 

[Skinski7]

Thank you! I guess I am darn near perfect then But seriously,
I do escape it when I take captive of my thoughts.
When I first started doing this I was doing it literally almost every few seconds.I am not kidding! As time as gone on; I rarely have to take captive of my thoughts. Our journey walking with Christ is indeed a process of the Holy Spirit santifying us as we apply ourselves to all kingdom things and renewing our minds with the word of God. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God Romans 10:17

Thank you for pointing that out to me. It made it click in somehow. I dont act on these thoughts and I do take them captive. Ty

Yes, that makes a lot of sense.

Our brains become wired to sin through long repeated habit. Upon regeneration our brain is not immediately rewired, out heart is. It takes time for the physical composition of our brains to be wired unto God.

Pornography is a good example and so is Cocaine. Studies have demonstrated that engaging in either of those activities engages a neurochemical release in the brain to which one becomes accustomed, addiction thus develops.

Upon thje forsaking the engagement of such activity the addictive craving is not immediately broken, it remains. This is why I believe Paul wrote of God quickening our mortal bodies. Over time as our minds are reprogrammed the temptation lessens and this seems to be something you experienced.

Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

 

[blondieindahouse]

God is not a knowledge builder alone He is a Godly Spirit infuser first and foremost. We live in the Word which transforms our mind and thoughts. We also have a will that decides on the new transformed mind to exist in us or the Satanic influences to exist in us. It is not inevitable the temptations of sin wrought about in us by Satans relentless quest. It is, if you are a born-again Christian, the power of your will to allow the victory over Satan in Gods will to rule over him. It is not you debating Satan but it is you who allows whom you serve. Remembering God rules over Satan and Satan rules over you! So whom do you want to be enslaved to? It's one or the other. Humanism isn't even a player in this battlefield. Only your will to choose sides. The results are sin is not in the Spirit of God, and sin reigns in Satan's.

God's forgiveness of confessed sin is an altogether different subject that also is included. Yet, defined.

Im not sure where you were going with this but I like skinski7 response . I do not act on the temptation. I do put it down and ask God to further cleanse me. I do agree with the Holy Sprits santifying me. But I am still flesh. I do have bad thoughts sometimes. So do you! We all do! Jesus Christ is the only one who had no sin.

Which btw: I do not believe that every thought I have comes from either or. I have a mind. We all have a tendency to hear 3 voices. Ourselves,satan,and the Holy Spirit. I dont think I am always debating satan. Im not sure why you are saying that. I know the difference between waking up in the morning and being attacked and me thinking hateful thoughts.
Ephesians states that our spirit wars against the spirit. Its a process. We are continually being refined until the day we are glorified. Its the motive of our hearts that we should focus on because that is what God is focusing on. We simply surrender and let the process of being molded in the refining fire take place.Right?
You are correct that we must confess sin asap .

 

[Skinski7]

Listen bud, you need to get down off your rocking horse and learn how to read. If you don't understand what I said just ask and I'll try to help but don't accuse me of saying things I didn't say with a superior attitude. All that does is show your insecurity and adolescence.

I would prefer you actually engage my response as opposed to just making unsubstantiated accusations.

You plainly stated that a thief or a drug addict can be saved and continue in those sins for a time.

It appears you simply do not want to directly address that issue and would prefer to make a personal attack.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

May God give the strength for every man, who seek his will, to resist the temptations of this world, and the lust of the flesh.

Sin is for death, and everyone should purify oneself like our Lord Yeshua is pure.

When you said like our LORD JESUS is pure i would say this can only be talking about salvation because JESUS said that the words that he spoke were Spirit and life and the spirit can only be cleaned by GOD, but after salvation then if we remain alive on earth in the body then we seek to purify ourselves and this is sanctification.

I think that's what you meant but when you said "like our LORD" then this can only be salvation; only GOD can purify the spirit.

 

[pwrnJC]

BarlyGurl....you hit a spiritual nerve with me on your comment..Thankyou...I needed it!

 

[Skinski7]

Im not sure where you were going with this but I like skinski7 response . I do not act on the temptation. I do put it down and ask God to further cleanse me. I do agree with the Holy Sprits santifying me. But I am still flesh. I do have bad thoughts sometimes. So do you! We all do! Jesus Christ is the only one who had no sin.

Which btw: I do not believe that every thought I have comes from either or. I have a mind. We all have a tendency to hear 3 voices. Ourselves,satan,and the Holy Spirit. I dont think I am always debating satan. Im not sure why you are saying that. I know the difference between waking up in the morning and being attacked and me thinking hateful thoughts.
Ephesians states that our spirit wars against the spirit. Its a process. We are continually being refined until the day we are glorified. Its the motive of our hearts that we should focus on because that is what God is focusing on. We simply surrender and let the process of being molded in the refining fire take place.Right?
You are correct that we must confess sin asap .

Here is something I wrote on this issue several years ago. You may find it interesting.

Reformed Theology sets itself up for a serial murderer to fall back into his old habits of murdering people and yet still remain in a justified state. The murderous acts will bring the displeasure of God and temporal judgments but will not effect the forensic cloak of having been cloaked in the "righteousness of Christ."

Reformed Theologians cannot escape this fallacy of their theology. Reformed Theology cannot teach that any sin (except unbelief) will keep someone out of the kingdom. An individual can still enter the kingdom whilst engaged in all manner of evil behaviour. The heart being made pure in salvation has absolutely nothing to do with their theology, instead it is a distant hope of something that will occur when they are glorified.

Reformed Theologians can only misdirect the exposure of this fallacy by creating strawmen and also by quote mining isolated and out of context proof texts from the Bible.

In truth a serial murderer who legitimately came to Christ through repentance and faith would have completely forsaken his old life. Repentance means "change of mind" and the serial murderer would have changed his mind about sin, righteousness and judgement. This change of mind is what produces obedience to the truth. He would have obeyed from his heart the form of doctrine delivered and thus been set free from the service of sin and now would be a servant of righteousness.

He would be in a yielded state to the grace of God which was teaching him to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts and to live soberly uprightly in the present age. He would know he would have to remain steadfast in the faith, walking according to the Spirit and not subjecting his temple to the vile allure of fleshly passions.

Sure there may be the physical stamp in his brain of various neurological pathways whereby he still has the "urge" to do evil but those "urges" have been crucified in Christ. Thus he would rule over them by the power of the Spirit for he has gone from darkness to light and been raised up with Christ.

Over a period of time his "physical nature" would be rewired as he partakes in the "divine nature." Thus thus the temptation would lessen over time. Reformed Theology on the other hand teaches that the actual "sinning" lessens over time. The truth is that pure hearts don't murder people.

Salvation is not a process of sinning less and less. Salvation is an actual state of having being saved from a state of where one could not stop their sinning. Thus having been saved from sin and been cleansed of sin one can fellowship in truth with God and grows in the grace and knowledge of His ways.

Saints are pure. Sinners are impure.

The professing believers that Jesus rejects at the judgement are workers of iniquity as opposed to being workers of righteousness.

Pro 11:18 The wicked worketh a deceitful work: but to him that soweth righteousness shall be a sure reward.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

There are MANY who will say "Lord, Lord" and yet be utterly SHOCKED that they are rejected for being workers of iniquity. These people bought into a deception which taught them that they could work iniquity and still enter the kingdom. "Ye can sin and not surely die" is the very first lie in the Bible.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/77962-finneyists-among-us-9.html#post1277302

 

[posthuman]

Can you see the disconnect?

The Bible does not teach that. Paul wrote this...

Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

The salvation you believe omits any death of the old man and thus eliminates any end to the service of sin.

after Paul spends 8-9 verses telling us that we are dead, have died, been crucified, share in death -- we come to Romans 6:11

Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin,
but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
​

why do you think he has to tell us to consider ourselves dead?
maybe it's not so obvious?
maybe sin in the flesh still wars against us, trying to deceive us to obey it, even though it has no more dominion over us?

why should Paul - or anyone else - have to encourage us to rid ourselves of sin, if it is impossible for us to commit any sin in the flesh? to stumble and serve that dead, carnal nature? why encourage me to avoid temptation, unless i will be tempted? why do i have an Advocate in my Lord, if i have no need of one?

if i think i am already perfected, maybe i am setting myself up to doubt my Perfector when i find that i "do the things which i do not want to do"

 

[pwrnJC]

Yes...sin is everywhere..all ranks, all parts of society...always has and always will be..according to my BIBLE...but...We need more VICTORY marches, more praises, more uplifting comments, more awesome testimonies. We do not need to go retro into the Dark Ages where everything was considered SIN and we walked around in despair, gloom, grew coffee beans and made java in monasteries, Can we get a little spirit, joy and thumbs up for JESUS? For every post that exalts the name of JESUS..we get a dozen posts that express despair, broken hearts, sin burdens, love the gays and more. The scales are always heavy on the negative side of CHRISTIANITY. Can we help change that? If I were not a CHRISTIAN and read the posts in here..I would continue to NOT be a CHRISTIAN nor would I actually want to change.

 

[shotgunner]

I would prefer you actually engage my response as opposed to just making unsubstantiated accusations.

You plainly stated that a thief or a drug addict can be saved and continue in those sins for a time.

It appears you simply do not want to directly address that issue and would prefer to make a personal attack.

Darn right they can. They just can't do it without conviction and they won't be able to keep on doing it. If they couldn't then it would be impossible for anyone to sin after they are saved.

I'll be happy to engage you if you will stop your accusatory tone. I also have a Bible and I know what it says. Let's discuss things like adults.

 

[BarlyGurl]

BarlyGurl....you hit a spiritual nerve with me on your comment..Thankyou...I needed it!

I read your post and thought... "huh? I did. hmmm what did I say? <head scratching>"... I had to go looking for my comment, lol

I just wrote what I was thinkin' at the time... it was the HS who strummed your nerve... I encourage you brother to drink fully whatever the Lord is doing in you.... Amen! Amen!

Sometimes HE even uses a wretch like me... <JOY>