Saved by faith alone?

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studier

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Apr 18, 2024
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Everlasting-Grace said:
A man tied a tightrope from one side of Niagara Falls to the other. He then got a wheelbarrow and gathered enough large rocks to roughly equal weight of a normal human

He then crossed the Niagara Falls multiple times with no issue

A crowd gathered and were astonished he could do this (one slip meant certain death)

He spoke to them and told him who he was and what he was doing. After a few more times he asked everyone

Who believes I can take a real person across. Everyone raised their hand. He proved he could do it. So everyone BELIEVED

He then asked for Volunteer's. Sadly at this everyone looked at everyone else. I one would volunteer

You see they believed he could
Do it. But they were not confident he could take them. They did not trust he would make it. They were not assured he would succeed with them

They believed. But they had no faith
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Everlasting-Grace said:
Actually the moment they had faith they were saved
with faith they did works
but the work Did Not save them
and os they did not get in they had to be put in
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Doesn't your story say they had no faith?

So, you're changing the story to say they did have faith and got into the basket, and they were saved the moment they had faith and immediately did works by getting in the basket?

And you're changing or clarifying the story to say they had to be put in the basket?

Could they have had faith but not get in the basket?

This is a good story?
 
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rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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lrs68 said:
Yeshua told us\directly to the Disciples we are given a measure of Faith.
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Not possessing a quantity of faith but having the ability to measure/assess faith; that is, having the ability to measure that Christ's faith brought forth salvation along with all that accompanies salvation.

metron
  1. measure, an instrument for measuring
    1. a vessel for receiving and determining the quantity of things, whether dry or liquid
    2. a graduated staff for measuring, a measuring rod
    3. proverbially, the rule or standard of judgment
  2. determined extent, portion measured off, measure or limit
    1. the required measure, the due, fit, measure

[Rom 12:3 KJV] 3 For[G1063] I say,[G3004] through[G1223] the grace[G5485] given[G1325] unto me,[G3427] to every man[G3956] that is[G5607] among[G1722] you,[G5213] not[G3361] to think [of himself] more[G3844] highly[G5252] than[G3739] he ought[G1163] to think;[G5426] but[G235] to think[G5426] soberly,[G1519][G4993] according as[G5613] God[G2316] hath dealt[G3307] to every man[G1538] the measure[G3358] of faith.[G4102]


[Eph 4:13 KJV] 13 Till[G3360] we all[G3956] come[G2658] in[G1519] the unity[G1775] of the faith,[G4102] and[G2532] of the knowledge[G1922] of the Son[G5207] of God,[G2316] unto[G1519] a perfect[G5046] man,[G435] unto[G1519] the measure[G3358] of the stature[G2244] of the fulness[G4138] of Christ:[G5547]
 
brighthouse98

brighthouse98

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Apr 16, 2015
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The real question is what kind of faith??? short term?? When something goes terribly wrong you have no more faith? OR!! BELIEVING FAITH?? No matter how one may feel, or no matter what happens around them, you are well grounded!! Believing faith saves! With Jesus loyalty is EVERYTHING!! Believing faith grows with both gladness and unfortunately suffering as well!! (2 Peter 2-15!!!!) Please pay attention to verse 11!!!!!! This my brothers and sister are how one reaches heaven with Jesus!!
 
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studier

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Apr 18, 2024
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Everlasting-Grace

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studier said:
Doesn't your story say they had no faith?
Click to expand...
you tell me. Did they have faith?
So, you're changing the story to say they did have faith and got into the basket,
Click to expand...
your being dishonest
and they were saved the moment they had faith and immediately did works by getting in the basket?
no one had faith in my story

if they did they would have acted

if they needed to get to the other side to be saved. Their faith saved them

[quoteAnd you're changing or clarifying the story to say they had to be put in the basket?
Click to expand...
Again no on in my story had faith

Could they have had faith but not get in the basket?

This is a good story?
Click to expand...
Did they have faith if they did not allow the person to save them?
 
S

studier

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#1,246
Apr 18, 2024
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#1,246
brighthouse98 said:
The real question is what kind of faith??? short term?? When something goes terribly wrong you have no more faith? OR!! BELIEVING FAITH?? No matter how one may feel, or no matter what happens around them, you are well grounded!! Believing faith saves! With Jesus loyalty is EVERYTHING!! Believing faith grows with both gladness and unfortunately suffering as well!! (2 Peter 2-15!!!!) Please pay attention to verse 11!!!!!! This my brothers and sister are how one reaches heaven with Jesus!!
Click to expand...
Now we have belief vs. Belief; belief vs. faith; belief vs. trust; believing faith; loyalty is everything; a metron of faith...

NKJ Eph4:11-14 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting,

Does anybody sense we have a problem?

cc: @mailmandan @Everlasting-Grace @lrs68 @Kroogz @rogerg and whoever else I missed.
 
K

Kroogz

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Dec 5, 2023
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Everlasting-Grace said:
Salvation can not be lost so this is a mute point
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It is not a mute point when you are arguing with people that think salvation can be lost/forfeited/walked away from.

You're saying not really saved because of the lack of works.

They are saying lose salvation because of the lack of works.

It's works based.

We may NEVER see evidence of a truly saved individual. The "works" God requires are secret. Only He knows.
 
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Everlasting-Grace

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studier said:
They followed Satan.

Do you think this has anything to do with their faith or belief or trust?

So, the words are not interchangeable as the Bible uses them?
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Lol

Your making stuff up.

There is belief that is not faith

Jesus said whoever believes has eternal
Life. Does this mean I can believe but not have faith and have eternal
Life
 
K

Kroogz

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Dec 5, 2023
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studier said:
Now we have belief vs. Belief; belief vs. faith; belief vs. trust; believing faith; loyalty is everything; a metron of faith...

NKJ Eph4:11-14 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting,

Does anybody sense we have a problem?

cc: @mailmandan @Everlasting-Grace @lrs68 @Kroogz @rogerg and whoever else I missed.
Click to expand...
It is simply believe (reasoning, metabolizing and applying) In the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved...... GRACE.
 
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rogerg

Well-known member
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Jul 13, 2021
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rogerg said:
Not possessing a quantity of faith but having the ability to measure/assess faith; that is, having the ability to measure that Christ's faith brought forth salvation along with all that accompanies salvation.

metron
  1. measure, an instrument for measuring
    1. a vessel for receiving and determining the quantity of things, whether dry or liquid
    2. a graduated staff for measuring, a measuring rod
    3. proverbially, the rule or standard of judgment
  2. determined extent, portion measured off, measure or limit
    1. the required measure, the due, fit, measure

[Rom 12:3 KJV] 3 For[G1063] I say,[G3004] through[G1223] the grace[G5485] given[G1325] unto me,[G3427] to every man[G3956] that is[G5607] among[G1722] you,[G5213] not[G3361] to think [of himself] more[G3844] highly[G5252] than[G3739] he ought[G1163] to think;[G5426] but[G235] to think[G5426] soberly,[G1519][G4993] according as[G5613] God[G2316] hath dealt[G3307] to every man[G1538] the measure[G3358] of faith.[G4102]


[Eph 4:13 KJV] 13 Till[G3360] we all[G3956] come[G2658] in[G1519] the unity[G1775] of the faith,[G4102] and[G2532] of the knowledge[G1922] of the Son[G5207] of God,[G2316] unto[G1519] a perfect[G5046] man,[G435] unto[G1519] the measure[G3358] of the stature[G2244] of the fulness[G4138] of Christ:[G5547]
Click to expand...
@lrs68

To be clear, while those particular verses themselves were not directly addressing this particular aspect of faith, nevertheless, God does give faith and belief in Christ to those whom He saves.
 
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Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
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Dec 18, 2021
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Kroogz said:
It is simply believe (reasoning, metabolizing and applying) In the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved...... GRACE.
Click to expand...
Or trust in him as Abraham confident that he will do what he promised
studier said:
Now we have belief vs. Belief; belief vs. faith; belief vs. trust; believing faith; loyalty is everything; a metron of faith...

NKJ Eph4:11-14 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting,

Does anybody sense we have a problem?

cc: @mailmandan @Everlasting-Grace @lrs68 @Kroogz @rogerg and whoever else I missed.
Click to expand...
its simple
do you trust Jesus to save you based on cross
or do you just believe Jesus died on cross. But not confident he will save you
 
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Everlasting-Grace

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Dec 18, 2021
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Kroogz said:
It is not a mute point when you are arguing with people that think salvation can be lost/forfeited/walked away from.

You're saying not really saved because of the lack of works.
Click to expand...
I am not a fruit inspector u do not know if someone had works or not
They are saying lose salvation because of the lack of works.

It's works based.

We may NEVER see evidence of a truly saved individual. The "works" God requires are secret. Only He knows.
Click to expand...
Hence we should not judge a person. Only God knows
now we can judge words.
 
K

Kroogz

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Dec 5, 2023
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Everlasting-Grace said:
I am not a fruit inspector u do not know if someone had works or not
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I know you're not @Everlasting-Grace. And I don't know about others fruits. But when we debate loss of salvation, what is it ALWAYS about? "fruit and works."

The moment someone believes in Christ for their salvation BOOM...they are saved. And saved FOREVER.


So the debate of not really being saved and the loss of salvation is mute.
 
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Everlasting-Grace

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Dec 18, 2021
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Kroogz said:
I know you're not @Everlasting-Grace. And I don't know about others fruits. But when we debate loss of salvation, what is it ALWAYS about? "fruit and works."

The moment someone believes in Christ for their salvation BOOM...they are saved. And saved FOREVER.


So the debate of not really being saved and the loss of salvation is mute.
Click to expand...
I think it is about trust in selves vs trust in God
 
S

studier

Well-known member
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Apr 18, 2024
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#1,257
Everlasting-Grace said:
Lol

Your making stuff up.

There is belief that is not faith

Jesus said whoever believes has eternal
Life. Does this mean I can believe but not have faith and have eternal
Life
Click to expand...
I'm making what stuff up?

Jesus says whoever believes has EL. So, it doesn't seem to you that belief qualifies for EL?
 
K

Kroogz

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Dec 5, 2023
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Everlasting-Grace said:
I think it is about trust in selves vs trust in God
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The workers want us to debate "not really saved" because then it is always about fruit and works.

Where the debate is eternal security or loss of salvation.

Believers never perish. Believers will not be condemned. Nothing Can separate us from His Love. He Is a forever advocate. We have the same seal as the Son. We are born of imperishable seed......THESE truths are the truths they CANNOT deal with.
 
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Everlasting-Grace

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Dec 18, 2021
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Kroogz said:
The workers want us to debate "not really saved" because then it is always about fruit and works.

Where the debate is eternal security or loss of salvation.

Believers never perish. Believers will not be condemned. Nothing Can separate us from His Love. He Is a forever advocate. We have the same seal as the Son. We are born of imperishable seed......THESE truths are the truths they CANNOT deal with.
Click to expand...
Jesus paid it all
 
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