But how could Jesus redeem a group without redeeming the individuals in that group?
Saved by faith alone?
- Thread starter Lamar
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Yes, all! That is exactly what the title of the Savior means—that He, and He alone, did everything required to save those chosen for salvation, with absolutely nothing remaining to be done by them for it.
They remain unchosen for salvation, but that does not change the meaning of the role of the 'Savior.'
If Jesus requires those whom He would save to finish the work, then He is a helper, not a Savior, and if so, then no one could become saved.
It's a simple question: did Jesus pay the debt in full on the cross, or is there a remaining balance left for those He would save to pay?
Yes or no?
Mark 16:16
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
My analogy:
Whoever is a native born citizen and at least 35 years old can run for president but anyone who is not native born will be rejected.
Your analogy:
he who takes his medication and washes it down with water will be made well but he who does not take his medication will remain sick.
So my analogy falls flat on its face but yours is "better"?
"he who takes his medication and washes it down with water" is analogy of "Whoever believes and is baptized".
Your analogy of (he who takes his medication and washes it down with water) is a unneeded redundancy.
Whoever believes and is baptized are two unique commands.
You are fooling no one.
I see no reason to answer your question since you have ignored mine.
It's you who is fooling no one "except the already fooled." Your indoctrination to the gospel according to Campbellism runs very deep.
Only the Lord can open your eyes to the truth of the gospel. 
Wow...that's some rebuttal.It's you who is fooling no one "except the already fooled." Your indoctrination to the gospel according to Campbellism runs very deep.
Indoctrination?
Not as deep as your gospel according to Stanleyism.
I have given you numerous rebuttals in the past and they all end up going right over your head. Face it. Your beliefs are fixed and yes, indoctrination. I witnessed it myself when I attended the church of Christ several years ago. What is Stanleyism?
I can easily say the same for you.
What you witnessed was the truth but were too blind to see.
John 9:39-41
Modern day gospel teachings of Andy Stanley.
How was I indoctrinated? I was born and raised in the Roman Catholic church, then temporarily attended the church of Christ, then after I received Jesus Christ through faith and was saved, attended a Baptist church for a little while before settling into a non-denominational Christian church where I currently attend. I did not become indoctrinated by one particular church. I came to believe what I believe by thoroughly searching the scriptures.
I was actually blind in the Roman Catholic church and in the church of Christ as I continued to trust in works for salvation and not in Jesus Christ alone. I had not yet come to believe the gospel. It was not until after I finally came to believe the gospel by trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the all sufficient means of my salvation (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) that the blinders were lifted and I could finally see clearly I knew without a doubt that I had become born again. Praise God!
Who was Jesus addressing in those verses above? The PHARISEES and not Andy Stanley. BTW: Isn't that Charles Stanley's son?
Sadly, many "professing" Christians believe in a works based false gospel and do not believe the true gospel. (1 Corinthians 1:18-21; 2 Corinthians 4:3,4) Victims of false religion who are blinded by the god of this world.
Been there, done that but now I BELIEVE.
Myself, i can do nothing on my own .i do mean nothing . that's a common grace given to ALl, that walk the world believer or non believers some in His Faith, others in false man tempory faith.
If you think Jesus has made a mistake, he's the one you need to talk to about it. Not me.
Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
(eternal salvation)
mt 10:22 he who endures to the end shall be saved
thks
I agree justification is a free gift after that we must participate
the grace of justification provides us with union in Christ
Jn 15:5 apart from Christ?
NOTHING!
phil 4:13 Union with Christ?
ALL THINGS!
acts 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
Lk 1:75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.
thks
1 Corinthians 2:11 - For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. 13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
You seem to be suggesting that those who accept Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16, 1st Peter 3:21, Mark 16:16 etc. at face value are lost.How was I indoctrinated? I was born and raised in the Roman Catholic church, then temporarily attended the church of Christ, then after I received Jesus Christ through faith and was saved, attended a Baptist church for a little while before settling into a non-denominational Christian church where I currently attend. I did not become indoctrinated by one particular church. I came to believe what I believe by thoroughly searching the scriptures.
I was actually blind in the Roman Catholic church and in the church of Christ as I continued to trust in works for salvation and not in Jesus Christ alone. I had not yet come to believe the gospel. It was not until after I finally came to believe the gospel by trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the all sufficient means of my salvation (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) that the blinders were lifted and I could finally see clearly I knew without a doubt that I had become born again. Praise God!
Who was Jesus addressing in those verses above? The PHARISEES and not Andy Stanley. BTW: Isn't that Charles Stanley's son?
Sadly, many "professing" Christians believe in a works based false gospel and do not believe the true gospel. (1 Corinthians 1:18-21; 2 Corinthians 4:3,4) Victims of false religion who are blinded by the god of this world.
View attachment 292397
Is this so?
I am a member of the church of Christ and have never seen a member force a definitive into a verse in order to alter its meaning and this is something that I have seen you do many times.
Your theology is forced to assume your pet verses are definitive and all-encompassing and to ignore the rest. This should give any honest person a reason to pause.
Very well said.
Clear and concise but since it goes against their narrative, it must be ignored.
Faith in Christ + water baptism or faith in Christ + other works for salvation is not faith in Christ alone. Your face value interpretation of Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16, 1st Peter 3:21, Mark 16:16 is not in harmony with John 3:18; Acts 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17-18; 13:38-39; 15:7-9; 26:18; Romans 10:13 etc. just like a common face value interpretation of James 2:24 by those who teach salvation by faith AND WORKS is not in harmony with Romans 4:2-6; Ephesians 2:8-9 etc. I have often heard folks who attend the church of Christ suggest that those who do not believe they are saved by water baptism/that the remission of sins only occurs when one is water baptized are lost. Is that so?
I believe we are saved through faith in Christ alone and not faith + baptism or faith plus other works. I believe that either we are trusting 100% in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) or else we are 100% lost. (1 Corinthians 1:18-21; 2 Corinthians 4:3,4)
Allow me to share a testimony:
When I was a teenager, I had temporarily attended the so-called church of Christ. It was a friend who invited me to attend that church and his aunt was a very devout and thoroughly indoctrinated member of that church. I will never forget several years later running into my friend's aunt at my friend's daughter's birthday party. Since then, I had received Jesus Christ through faith and was now a born-again Christian. I shared this good news with his aunt and the only question that she had for me was, "where do you attend church?" When my answer was not "the church of Christ," she bowed her head in sadness as if to imply that I was still lost because I did not say the church of Christ and she simply walked away.
After that her husband approached me and I shared the good news with him as well that I had received Jesus Christ through faith and am now a born-again Christian and he had the same question, "where do you attend church," and when I told him and the answer was not the church of Christ, his eyes glazed over followed by a cheesy legalistic grin on his face and he simply walked away from me and neither of them would speak with me for the rest of the night. I knew that something was terribly wrong! I could hear them both over in the corner going on and on about "salvation by water baptism" and that ONLY their church, "the church of Christ" is the "true Church." I realized they were both deceived!
I at one time had temporarily attended the church of Christ so I understand how they try to "shoehorn" works "into" salvation through faith, not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9) Instead of properly harmonizing scripture with scripture before reaching their conclusion on doctrine, instead, folks in the church of Christ end up "patching together" their so-called gospel plan which culminates in salvation by faith AND WORKS. They even reverse the scriptural order of repentance and faith in salvation. They also conflate faith with works and teach we are saved by faith "conjoined" with works. Roman Catholics teach that we are saved by faith "infused" with works and in both cases, works end up becoming meritorious towards receiving eternal life, although both sides try to deny the merit part.