Saved by faith alone?

[Watchman22]

No, only those elected by God from before the foundation of the world will become saved. Jesus did not pay the debt for
everyone, only for His elect - for those, and for only those, that He elected unto salvation from before the foundation of the world.

What are you talking about? He paid the price for all the sins of the world, past present and future. Thats Grace or unmerited favor.
Your saying He also performed the faith part of the salvation process. So in your understanding, there would be no elect, there would only be those who he excludes, because since He did everything necessary for salvation, all humans would be saved at birth.

Just trying to navigate the obvious questions going down the rabbit hole your presenting.

 

[Cameron143]

What are you talking about? He paid the price for all the sins of the world, past present and future. Thats Grace or unmerited favor.
Your saying He also performed the faith part of the salvation process. So in your understanding, there would be no elect, there would only be those who he excludes, because since He did everything necessary for salvation, all humans would be saved at birth.

Just trying to navigate the obvious questions going down the rabbit hole your presenting.

If Jesus atoned for the sins of all of humanity throughout history, and God has accepted His payment, on what basis does God send people to hell?

 

[Watchman22]

If Jesus atoned for the sins of all of humanity throughout history, and God has accepted His payment, on what basis does God send people to hell?

Thats where faith comes in.
Jesus only made it possible for mankind to choose Him. He provides a door, we must open it and walk through it. Jesus doesn't open the door and walk through it for us as Roger is saying.

 

[Watchman22]

If Jesus atoned for the sins of all of humanity throughout history, and God has accepted His payment, on what basis does God send people to hell?

And God doesn't send people to hell, they coose it.

 

[Watchman22]

If Jesus atoned for the sins of all of humanity throughout history, and God has accepted His payment, on what basis does God send people to hell?

Choose.

 

[Cameron143]

Thats where faith comes in.
Jesus only made it possible for mankind to choose Him. He provides a door, we must open it and walk through it. Jesus doesn't open the door and walk through it for us as Roger is saying.

This doesn't answer my question, but can't you see that opening a door and walking through it is not included in grace and is an addition to it? It's not that faith and repentance aren't present in salvation. They are simply the responses to authentic salvation, and not it's cause.

This is what @rogerg has been trying to communicate to you.

 

[Cameron143]

Choose.

What is the choice?

 

[Cameron143]

And God doesn't send people to hell, they coose it.

I agree that people fit themselves for destruction, but it is God who actually performs the destruction. It is God who casts individuals into hell. On what basis does He do this?

 

[Watchman22]

This doesn't answer my q, but can't you see that opening a door and walking through it is not included in grace and is an addition to it? It's not that faith and repentance aren't present in salvation. They are simply the responses to authentic salvation, and not it's cause.

This is what @rogerg has been trying to communicate to you.

No, faith is a response to the call of the Father .
Nobody comes to Christ but through Him.

I'm not disagreeing with the fact that faith and faithing promote more faith and faithing.

True faithing (pisteuo) a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender, done the first time, results in something. Something that causes us to do it over and over again. Faith produces faith.

 

[Watchman22]

What is the choice?

Just like we choose who we surrender our life and will over to, your asking about the ones who choose anything other than Christ.

We are saved by Grace through Faith, and we are condemed by Grace through Faith, those one faithed in something other than Christ.

 

[Watchman22]

I agree that people fit themselves for destruction, but it is God who actually performs the destruction. It is God who casts individuals into hell. On what basis does He do this?

Isn't He just facilitating what we've chosen for ourselves? One way or the other,

 

[Cameron143]

No, faith is a response to the call of the Father .
Nobody comes to Christ but through Him.

I'm not disagreeing with the fact that faith and faithing promote more faith and faithing.

True faithing (pisteuo) a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender, done the first time, results in something. Something that causes us to do it over and over again. Faith produces faith.

Faith is the result of hearing. And hearing by the word of God.

 

[Cameron143]

Just like we choose who we surrender our life and will over to, your asking about the ones who choose anything other than Christ.

We are saved by Grace through Faith, and we are condemed by Grace through Faith, those one faithed in something other than Christ.

That's unbelief, yes?

 

[rogerg]

What are you talking about? He paid the price for all the sins of the world, past present and future. Thats Grace or unmerited favor.
Your saying He also performed the faith part of the salvation process. So in your understanding, there would be no elect, there would only be those who he excludes, because since He did everything necessary for salvation, all humans would be saved at birth.

Just trying to navigate the obvious questions going down the rabbit hole your presenting.

No. Jesus paid only for the sins of His people - the elect - not for everyone's sins. For His people, He alone perfectly satisfied all
of the requirements to bring about their salvation. That is why He has the title of Savior.

 

[Cameron143]

Isn't He just facilitating what we've chosen for ourselves? One way or the other,

No. Left to ourselves, none would seek God. We would all end up in hell. God comes to an individual to reconcile them to Himself.

 

[Watchman22]

That's unbelief, yes?

Faith is actually moving towards Him, the opposite would be making decisions that move away Rom Him.

 

[Watchman22]

No. Left to ourselves, none would seek God. We would all end up in hell. God comes to an individual to reconcile them to Himself.

Thats the call of the Father, we must respond or not respond.

 

[Watchman22]

No. Jesus paid only for the sins of His people - the elect - not for everyone's sins. For His people, He alone perfectly satisfied all
of the requirements to bring about their salvation. That is why He has the title of Savior.

Thats just false.

 

[Cameron143]

Faith is actually moving towards Him, the opposite would be making decisions that move away Rom Him.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for; the evidence of things not seen.

 

[Cameron143]

Thats the call of the Father, we must respond or not respond.

We do respond or we don't. But our response isn't the cause of salvation; it is simply the evidence or lack thereof that we have been saved.