-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
H
that is all true. Which is why Jesus taught saying that people refuse to help realatives saying that their money is "corban" or dedicated to God. Those who fall foul to the demands of the health and wealth profiteers are
1) suckers
2) ignoring Jesus call for a general generosity towards helping parents/relatives.
THey also want to give money in order to receive money for paying off bills when the true storehouse God opens is his mercy and his presence in the believer's life.
1) suckers
2) ignoring Jesus call for a general generosity towards helping parents/relatives.
THey also want to give money in order to receive money for paying off bills when the true storehouse God opens is his mercy and his presence in the believer's life.
E
There is that. Then there is also those who do not believe in a gospel of grace through faith, But one has to earn the right to be saved. They give hoping that it is a downpayment for their entrance to heaven. That is why a works based Gospel is so dangerous. People think they can buy their way in by doing whatever. When no one can buy anything. Christs death is the only payment for sin God will accept.
Hi Hearer, very good post, ones heart has to be changed in order for one to see to have Faith.
Titus 3:5:
5he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
This is what Jesus is talking about to Nicodemus in John 3.
E
How can a dead man live???? does he need to live before he can live? thats what you are saying, so how can you be right?
Do not confuse being born again/rebirth with the umbrella term Salvation, which covers everything from rebirth to Glorification.
dead men can't live, they need revived first! Thats what God does, he gives us a new heart a new desire in order to believe.
H
I think the point i am making is that many think they are doing a great and mighty work by professing Jesus and that earns then regeneration when they do not see what is going on really.
It is right that we rather say we do not know what is going on because the "wind" blows where it wants. So with the spirit. We are also not saved by faith but by regeneration anyway. If we are not a new man (born again regenerated, given a new start/beginning) then we have no life in us to have right faith. Faith therefore is a gift not a right for everyone.
we have to pursue faith after rebirth when we are men of God. Being a reborn man of God comes first, rather than a natural carnal person, before faith:
1 Timothy 6:11
But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness.
(these are the fruit and gifts of being firstly areborn man of God (rather than a natural carnal man)
But hey, that's just what the scriptures tell.
It is right that we rather say we do not know what is going on because the "wind" blows where it wants. So with the spirit. We are also not saved by faith but by regeneration anyway. If we are not a new man (born again regenerated, given a new start/beginning) then we have no life in us to have right faith. Faith therefore is a gift not a right for everyone.
we have to pursue faith after rebirth when we are men of God. Being a reborn man of God comes first, rather than a natural carnal person, before faith:
1 Timothy 6:11
But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness.
(these are the fruit and gifts of being firstly areborn man of God (rather than a natural carnal man)
But hey, that's just what the scriptures tell.
E
How can standing still, letting someone else do all the work for you. and trusting in this person which you can not see, but have only heard of through word of mouth, scripture and this thing inside you (conviction of the HS) cause anyone to think they have done a "mighty work"? by having faith in Christ?
a man who is in danger and saves himself has done a mighty work. a man who risks life and limb to save others has done a mighty work. a man who does nothing to save himself. but allows someone else to do the work of saving him because he trusts that other person completely has done no mighty work. in fact in human terms, that man is a wimp because he did not do anythign to save himself. he relied completely on someone else.
That is why it is so hard for anyone to have true faith in Christ, it is against our nature. we have to save ourselves. or at least help (works based Gospel)
a man who is in danger and saves himself has done a mighty work. a man who risks life and limb to save others has done a mighty work. a man who does nothing to save himself. but allows someone else to do the work of saving him because he trusts that other person completely has done no mighty work. in fact in human terms, that man is a wimp because he did not do anythign to save himself. he relied completely on someone else.
That is why it is so hard for anyone to have true faith in Christ, it is against our nature. we have to save ourselves. or at least help (works based Gospel)
E
how can a dead man live? The thing which makes them dead is taken away (he has to be healed). A dead man can not save himself. he is hopeless and must rely on someone else.
what makes us dead? Sin. What must be removed before we can be made alive? the penalty of sin. if the penalty is still there, we are still dead, and have not been regenerated.
scripture makes it clear. our sin is only removed (redeemed, by faith in christ. so no man is born again until their sin is removed.
as for salvation. If you are saved, your penalty is removed, and you are forgiven. The rest of the stuff are the results of being saved, not the actuall act of being saved. If you not saved, your dead. If your dead, you are without hope.
H
if you are not a reborn (man of faith and God) you cannot pursue faith...
1 Timothy 6:11
But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness.
1 Timothy 6:11
But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness.
E
Wow. Talk about taking a verse out of Context. The faith Paul is talking about here is faith in our everyday lives. Not faith in Christ to be saved. Timothy had already been saved because of his faith when Paul told him to do this.
If you do not have faith. You can not be reborn. Because you are still dead in your sin. Sin must be removed before you can be made alive.
eph 2; 1 1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,
the penalty of sin must be taken care of before anyone can be made alive. This is only done though faith.
If you do not have faith. You can not be reborn. Because you are still dead in your sin. Sin must be removed before you can be made alive.
eph 2; 1 1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,
the penalty of sin must be taken care of before anyone can be made alive. This is only done though faith.
H
being made alive is rebirth. You are reading the text backwards in order to put repentance first. We are dead and the only way we will be saved is for us to be given new life. New life comes from rebirth. then when we see the world anew we can pursue faith. First the work of the Spirit, followed by faith.
E
No hearer. I am taking scripture literally. If you have sin and it is not forgiven, You can not be made alive, this is just the way it is. One can not be made alive unless the thing which makes them dead is forgiven.
Scripture states that the HS speaks to all men. All men have the ability to be made alive and forgiven. Not all men, however, listen to the HS. thus not all men will have the faith it takes to make them alive.
The work of the spirit to a dead man is conviction. it is not making someone alive who is still dead in their sin. ( this comes after one has faith) faith must come first. Or your still dead. The HS's job is to convict the world of sin righteousness and judgment. Those who believe him will have faith in his word. those who do not will reject his words. Salvation is offered to everyone, not just a select few. This is a false teaching and makes our God to be the God satan has said he is all along. It makes the lie of satan turn out to be truth.
Scripture states that the HS speaks to all men. All men have the ability to be made alive and forgiven. Not all men, however, listen to the HS. thus not all men will have the faith it takes to make them alive.
The work of the spirit to a dead man is conviction. it is not making someone alive who is still dead in their sin. ( this comes after one has faith) faith must come first. Or your still dead. The HS's job is to convict the world of sin righteousness and judgment. Those who believe him will have faith in his word. those who do not will reject his words. Salvation is offered to everyone, not just a select few. This is a false teaching and makes our God to be the God satan has said he is all along. It makes the lie of satan turn out to be truth.
A
WHAT??? I'm confused what are we talking about?
Repentance comes before confession and salvation. that is why godly sorrow is needed. Grace is given to bring about godly sorrow and repentance but the new heart is not given until the blood of Christ cleanse the sinner of sin through the confession of the mouth unto salvation and the belief/faith in the heart unto righteousness. so lets put it in order
1. God gives person grace
2. the person heart is soften and they have godly sorrow and fear of the Lord which is the beginning of wisdom, they recognize their many sins and are repentant
3. they hear the Gospel and they believe in their heart and have faith which is counted as righteousness
4. they confess with their mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord and savior, died for their sins and rose again to glory in Heaven
5. God places in their heart the Holy Spirit and baptizes/cleanse them of their sin by the blood of His Son for the remission of sins
6. the Holy Spirit sanctifies and convicts the believer and keeps them running the race of this life God has set before them until their flesh dies
7. Resurrection of the person at the second coming of Christ into immortal perfected bodies
Did I miss something?
Repentance comes before confession and salvation. that is why godly sorrow is needed. Grace is given to bring about godly sorrow and repentance but the new heart is not given until the blood of Christ cleanse the sinner of sin through the confession of the mouth unto salvation and the belief/faith in the heart unto righteousness. so lets put it in order
1. God gives person grace
2. the person heart is soften and they have godly sorrow and fear of the Lord which is the beginning of wisdom, they recognize their many sins and are repentant
3. they hear the Gospel and they believe in their heart and have faith which is counted as righteousness
4. they confess with their mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord and savior, died for their sins and rose again to glory in Heaven
5. God places in their heart the Holy Spirit and baptizes/cleanse them of their sin by the blood of His Son for the remission of sins
6. the Holy Spirit sanctifies and convicts the believer and keeps them running the race of this life God has set before them until their flesh dies
7. Resurrection of the person at the second coming of Christ into immortal perfected bodies
Did I miss something?
E
I would reword it some.
1. God dies for every man woman and child who ever lived. he paid the price of propitiation for everyone and is offering them his gift of salvation.
2. The HS convicts every man woman and child who ever lives of sin righteousness and judgment (john 16: 8). so that no man has an excuse (romans 1)
3. A person is open to what the HS is convicting them of. Realizes their dire straights. realize they are rightly convicted and worthy of judgment. Realize they are without hope of ever saving themselves. And trusts that God did send this man called jesus to pay the penalty in their place. (this is called repentance)
4. The person chooses to place their faith in the words of the HS and the work of Christ, and receives the gift which is offered them. Confesses Christ, and believes in their heart this is true.
5. The holy spirit baptizes the new believer, where his sins are washed, he is then baptized into the body of Christ as a new child. Finally the person is anointed with the HS who is given as a seal, a helper a teacher and a convector and chasten er. And also giver of spiritual gifts.
6. The person either grows in Christ and finds the faith rest Life God wants them to have, or as the corinthian church, remains a babe in Christ where they never grow and never realise what it is they are missing out on. Or somewhere in between.
7. Through death and the resurrection. The person enters eternity with a new body which is unable to sin, and lives eternally with God.
I am sure I have missed a few things..lol
1. God dies for every man woman and child who ever lived. he paid the price of propitiation for everyone and is offering them his gift of salvation.
2. The HS convicts every man woman and child who ever lives of sin righteousness and judgment (john 16: 8). so that no man has an excuse (romans 1)
3. A person is open to what the HS is convicting them of. Realizes their dire straights. realize they are rightly convicted and worthy of judgment. Realize they are without hope of ever saving themselves. And trusts that God did send this man called jesus to pay the penalty in their place. (this is called repentance)
4. The person chooses to place their faith in the words of the HS and the work of Christ, and receives the gift which is offered them. Confesses Christ, and believes in their heart this is true.
5. The holy spirit baptizes the new believer, where his sins are washed, he is then baptized into the body of Christ as a new child. Finally the person is anointed with the HS who is given as a seal, a helper a teacher and a convector and chasten er. And also giver of spiritual gifts.
6. The person either grows in Christ and finds the faith rest Life God wants them to have, or as the corinthian church, remains a babe in Christ where they never grow and never realise what it is they are missing out on. Or somewhere in between.
7. Through death and the resurrection. The person enters eternity with a new body which is unable to sin, and lives eternally with God.
I am sure I have missed a few things..lol
H
now here is where we disagree to be exact, the person's heart is not just softened. In fact following the prophecy of Ezekiel is that he first places in us a new heart a heart of flesh (renewal/rebirth) and gives us his spirit:
Ezekiel 11:19
I will give them an undivided heart and put a new spirit in them; I will remove from them their heart of stone and give them a heart of flesh.
so you have the oder right but the softening you write of is in fact a rebirth and a new heart.
Ezekiel 11:19
I will give them an undivided heart and put a new spirit in them; I will remove from them their heart of stone and give them a heart of flesh.
so you have the oder right but the softening you write of is in fact a rebirth and a new heart.
E
as per the first part you underlined, if this was the case. every man would be saved. because every man would be born again. The fact every man is not born again, yet the Holy Spirit does the thing you underlined to everyone shows that this is not rebirth or renewal.
as per the second. This is repentance. or a change of heart. We must do this. God will not force his will, or his approval on anyone.
either way. the part which is rebirth is number 5. which is a result of verse 4.
as per the second. This is repentance. or a change of heart. We must do this. God will not force his will, or his approval on anyone.
either way. the part which is rebirth is number 5. which is a result of verse 4.