Seperation of Church and State

[SirSolaScriptura]

I wholeheartedly believe in separation of church and state, the temporal governments and the Kingdom of Heaven:

"Church and State should be independent of each other:—he speaks of the duty of protesting “against the profanation of Christ’s kingdom, by that double usurpation, the interference of the Church in temporals, of the State in spirituals,” p. 191; and, secondly, that the Church may justly and by right retain its property, though separated from the State. “The clergy,” he says, p. 133, “though they ought not to be the hired servants of the Civil Magistrate, may justly retain their revenues; and the State, though it has no right of interference in spiritual concerns." (The Apologia Pro Vita Sua, John Henry Newman, Chapter One, Dove Thrift Editions).

 

[Dino246]

Separation of church and state is actually a terrible idea.

While the government should have no influence in the Church, the Church should have significant influence within the government... unofficially, of course.

 

[SirSolaScriptura]

Separation of church and state is actually a terrible idea.

While the government should have no influence in the Church, the Church should have significant influence within the government... unofficially, of course.

And yet look how corrupt in history things got, in Constantinople The Emperor played Game of Thrones, poking people's eyes out, lording over clergy and laity, putting people in nunneries and appointing bishops, and calling councils, and controlling armies and politics. Then you have when Popes had the most temporal power, controlling kings and all the disasters that brought, like the Spanish Inquisition that through the Kingdom of Spain deported people enmass, burned people, and did horrible tortures.

If the Church is intertwined in the State, it can then be beholden to the State and its gospel controlled by the State. In China, the offical churches are controlled by CCP and cannot preach the gospel in Scripture.

 

[Dino246]

And yet look how corrupt in history things got, in Constantinople The Emperor played Game of Thrones, poking people's eyes out, lording over clergy and laity, putting people in nunneries and appointing bishops, and calling councils, and controlling armies and politics. Then you have when Popes had the most temporal power, controlling kings and all the disasters that brought, like the Spanish Inquisition that through the Kingdom of Spain deported people enmass, burned people, and did horrible tortures.

If the Church is intertwined in the State, it can then be beholden to the State and its gospel controlled by the State. In China, the offical churches are controlled by CCP and cannot preach the gospel in Scripture.

Methinks you read my comment exactly backwards. What you describe is government involvement in religion, not Church influence in government. The popes were never "Church" despite their self-aggrandizement, nor were the Catholics who foisted the anti-Semitic Inquisition.

Church influence in government is not the influence of organized bodies of believers ("denominations") but rather solid Christians speaking to leaders and, as the Lord leads, seeking to be involved in government.

 

[Intersection]

Methinks you read my comment exactly backwards. What you describe is government involvement in religion, not Church influence in government. The popes were never "Church" despite their self-aggrandizement, nor were the Catholics who foisted the anti-Semitic Inquisition.

Church influence in government is not the influence of organized bodies of believers ("denominations") but rather solid Christians speaking to leaders and, as the Lord leads, seeking to be involved in government.

Do you believe correct Christianity is denominational or nondenominational?

 

[Dino246]

Do you believe correct Christianity is denominational or nondenominational?

I believe yours is yet another bait question intended to set you up to condemn others while refusing to answer even the simplest questions asked of you.

 

[Intersection]

I believe yours is yet another bait question intended to set you up to condemn others while refusing to answer even the simplest questions asked of you.

I am nondenominational.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

And yet look how corrupt in history things got, in Constantinople The Emperor played Game of Thrones, poking people's eyes out, lording over clergy and laity, putting people in nunneries and appointing bishops, and calling councils, and controlling armies and politics. Then you have when Popes had the most temporal power, controlling kings and all the disasters that brought, like the Spanish Inquisition that through the Kingdom of Spain deported people enmass, burned people, and did horrible tortures.

If the Church is intertwined in the State, it can then be beholden to the State and its gospel controlled by the State. In China, the offical churches are controlled by CCP and cannot preach the gospel in Scripture.

The antichrist is going to use religion as a draw to himself. Remember that he will do some sort of treaty or agreement that will allow the Jewish daily sacrifices to be started again, while the False Prophet will combine all religions into one world wide ecumenical entity. Then 3-1/2 years from that time, the antichrist will abolish the daily sacrifices, defile the holy of holies and declare himself gold. Then the False Prophet will try to enforce the mark of the beast.

I think there can only be perfect balance of church and state when Jesus comes back to rule the world, so I don't think much of how it's being handled until He returns.


🐞

 

[SirSolaScriptura]

The antichrist is going to use religion as a draw to himself. Remember that he will do some sort of treaty or agreement that will allow the Jewish daily sacrifices to be started again, while the False Prophet will combine all religions into one world wide ecumenical entity. Then 3-1/2 years from that time, the antichrist will abolish the daily sacrifices, defile the holy of holies and declare himself gold. Then the False Prophet will try to enforce the mark of the beast.

I think there can only be perfect balance of church and state when Jesus comes back to rule the world, so I don't think much of how it's being handled until He returns.


🐞

Indeed you are quote 2 Thessalonians 2:1-11.

 

[Intersection]

What do you believe? What is the correct definition of a Christian denomination? Are so-called christian denominations of God or man?

 

[Dino246]

What do you believe? What is the correct definition of a Christian denomination? Are so-called christian denominations of God or man?

Another bait question. Three, actually.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

What do you believe? What is the correct definition of a Christian denomination? Are so-called christian denominations of God or man?

You don't seem to like @Dino246 as you always single him out. Why???

If there is something that bothers you about him, you can post directly to him and talk it out with him in private. Otherwise, you're just harassing him.

And real Christians don't do that.


🐞

 

[ZNP]

My understanding of the US constitution and the prohibition of the US government either supporting a religion or trying to prohibit it only applies to the US government.

I don't see any constitutional basis for the US government to dictate to pastors what they can and cannot say within the sanctuary of the church.

I think most Christians misunderstand the concept of "separation of church and state" either because they are somewhat ignorant or naive, or because they are intentionally not understanding. It is absurd to think that Christians cannot discuss and talk about anything that the Bible does and to be fair I have never seen any "political issue" that is not covered in the Bible. This concept of separation of church and state only applies to the government.

Once you understand that you should see what a huge mistake it is for Christians to agree to "public school" education overseen by the Federal government. Why would you want to send your kid to a school that will give equal credibility to Satanists, Atheists, Agnostics, Pagans, etc?

I can see there were some issues previously with getting trained teachers for kids from K-12, but now with Khan Academy there isn't. I can also see that fifty or sixty years ago it was reasonable to assume the school and the teachers were not going to to full leftist lunatic mode. But not anymore.

 

[Eli1]

You don't seem to like @Dino246 as you always single him out. Why???

🐞

He and Dino go waaay back. More than the 2 years that i've been here.
Intersection comes back with many usernames after many bans he's received. He baits and trolls people with polls, vague questions and other nonsense.
People still fall for it.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

He and Dino go waaay back. More than the 2 years that i've been here.
Intersection comes back with many usernames after many bans he's received. He baits and trolls people with polls, vague questions and other nonsense.
People still fall for it.

Ah, okay! But isn't his trolling kind of dangerous for him? Because he trolls about the belief of "correct doctrine" which people have explained to him.... And you know how God holds us responsible for the knowledge given to us and how we use it or apply it to our own lives.

Luke 12:47 And that servant who knew his master's will but did not get ready or act according to his will, will receive a severe beating. 48 But the one who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, will receive a light beating. Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more.

Well, so much knowledge has been given to him through the discussion threads he had started. I don't if he realizes that God is going to hold him to that.


🐞

 

[Intersection]

You don't seem to like @Dino246 as you always single him out. Why???

If there is something that bothers you about him, you can post directly to him and talk it out with him in private. Otherwise, you're just harassing him.

And real Christians don't do that.


🐞

This post post did not even quote Dino246.

 

[Intersection]

He and Dino go waaay back. More than the 2 years that i've been here.
Intersection comes back with many usernames after many bans he's received. He baits and trolls people with polls, vague questions and other nonsense.
People still fall for it.

The majority of my questions are very specific.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

This post post did not even quote Dino246.

You have other posts that directly quote him.


🐞

 

[Eli1]

Ah, okay! But isn't his trolling kind of dangerous for him? Because he trolls about the belief of "correct doctrine" which people have explained to him.... And you know how God holds us responsible for the knowledge given to us and how we use it or apply it to our own lives.

Luke 12:47 And that servant who knew his master's will but did not get ready or act according to his will, will receive a severe beating. 48 But the one who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, will receive a light beating. Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more.

Well, so much knowledge has been given to him through the discussion threads he had started. I don't if he realizes that God is going to hold him to that.


🐞

He will find out about the correct doctrine when he has to face God.
But for here and now, all i can tell is that he's unable to have a genuine good-faith discussion.