Seventh Day Adventist

[Roughsoul1991]

We do not ignore but simply see a new covenant of commands.

< I have never heard this before--there is no new covenant in regards to the Commandments. They do not save us, but we are called out of love to obey them

There is a lot here to respond to Rough Soul, but I'll make an attempt--I wish before people would respond they would take the time to read more carefully what was written as I feel like I have to reiterate my points, which I believe are quite clear.

As I've already stated--in other posts as well as this post you are responding to,

The 10 Commandments are not the LAW. The Law refers to the MOSAIC LAW.

The verse you refer to is a summation--" For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”--that is different than a replacement. You would have to ignore the other verses which I posted to believe that, such as,

" “If ye love me, keep my commandments.” --John 14:15

"…2By this we know that we love the children of God: when we love God and keep His commandments. 3For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome, 4because everyone born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world: our faith.…" 1 John 5:3

What are the Commandments? The TEN Commandments. Again the verse you quoted is a SUMMATION and NOT a REPLACEMENT.

and by saying it's fulfilled, do you think we can do away with the other 9 Commandments?

Also, as I've state elsewhere --the verse you quoted says 'A' Sabbath, as opposed to THE Sabbath--these Sabbaths are the specials sabbaths or high holy days --they are not 'THE' Sabbath of the 10 Commandments.

I think that is enough for now--I'll come back to this when I have more time...or the inclination--not to be rude, but I don't have much inclination in repeating myself..... [/QUOTE]

Repeating or repetition is how the ancient Israelites were taught.

I can say that I hear every word you have said it is not that I am looking past it but that I feel I have already addressed it.

The new covenant is now the law of Christ.

The prophet Jeremiah also predicted the New Covenant. “‘The day will come,’ says the Lord, ‘when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and Judah. . . . But this is the new covenant I will make with the people of Israel on that day,’ says the Lord. ‘I will put my law in their minds, and I will write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people’” (Jeremiah 31:31, 33). Jesus Christ came to fulfill the Law of Moses (Matthew 5:17) and to establish the New Covenant between God and His people. The Old Covenant was written in stone, but the New Covenant is written on our hearts. Entering the New Covenant is made possible only by faith in Christ, who shed His blood to take away the sins of the world (John 1:29). Luke 22:20 relates how Jesus, at the Last Supper, takes the cup and says, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood” (ESV).

https://www.gotquestions.org/new-covenant.html

I have heard your argument for the ten commandments but I disagreed as to why I keep addressing it. I see the ten commandments as the foundation for the Mosiac law. Much how American or English law can be traced back to the ten commandments.

The Mosaic Law was given specifically to the nation of Israel (Exodus 19; Leviticus 26:46; Romans 9:4). It was made up of three parts: the Ten Commandments, the ordinances, and the worship system, which included the priesthood, the tabernacle, the offerings, and the festivals (Exodus 20—40; Leviticus 1—7; 23). https://www.gotquestions.org/Mosaic-Law.html


Colossians 2:16-17
New International Version
16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

Festivals like Passover or the Feast of Unleavened Bread where at designated weeks throughout the year or years.

A new moon was once a month

A sabbath day was once a week.

Sabbath from English to Greek is sabbaton.

4521. sabbaton
sabbaton: the Sabbath, i.e. the seventh day (of the week)

​

Same translated word sabbaton in Luke 4:16.

​

Luke 4:16
16He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. He stood up to read,

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Might I ask which religion you were raised in?

Not sure as my parents attended the Methodist Church but I rebelled much of my youth. Always tried to get out of church.

It wasn't until my testimony experience when I began to read the Bible. So I suppose the Bible is my religion. I never knew about doctrines or any of this denomination differences until I started to hear things that I had not read in the Bible.

Now Im more comfortable with nondenominational churches but even those you will find to hold core beliefs that are not always accurate.

 

[Magenta]

Genesis 2:

1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.


Back in the beginning at the end of creation week on the 7th day God rested from creating the world. Later in Exodus 20 with the 4th commandment He asked us to Remember.

God created a day of rest on the 7th day of the week and I'm sure Adam, Eve, God and the Angels celebrated and were amazed by the things that were around them and I'm also sure they were in awe of God and His ability in creating everything. To be able to watch from the outside looking in on a scene like that one. They were worshiping/fellowshipping with God on that first 7th day.

God set that first 7th day apart He blessed it sanctified the day which means setting it apart from the other days and by example God rested from His work which is why later He is asking us not to work on that day. Sabbath is a day to rest and spend time with God and family. Usually we worship God when we are spending time with Him...

The Sabbath is about rest, yes, I have said that repeatedly. God desires those
who worship Him in spirit and in truth. That is not a one-day-a-week event.
At least, it is not for me. Nothing in the commandment itself says anything
about worshiping God and having a day set apart for it. God did not need
to rest after His six days of creation. It foreshadowed the rest we find in Christ.

 

[JesusLives]

Not sure as my parents attended the Methodist Church but I rebelled much of my youth. Always tried to get out of church.

It wasn't until my testimony experience when I began to read the Bible. So I suppose the Bible is my religion. I never knew about doctrines or any of this denomination differences until I started to hear things that I had not read in the Bible.

Now Im more comfortable with nondenominational churches but even those you will find to hold core beliefs that are not always accurate.

I don't know much at all about nondenominational churches. Do they preach salvation and talk about Jesus? I really have no clue.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

I don't know much at all about nondenominational churches. Do they preach salvation and talk about Jesus? I really have no clue.

Yes, they are usually started out of the need to preserve the gospel as many of those churches divided away from denominations.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Reply to #256

She may be the door He uses to bring the husband in.

To mormonism?

 

[Roughsoul1991]

In talking and debating with folks you get a feel for their persona and I feel that we are kindred spirits meaning that we both have the desire to learn and know the truth. It sounds as though you also use the Bible as your source of truth and you want people to be saved. When that happens I feel friendship and close to that person and there are many on CC that I have that kindred fellowship feeling with really to me it feels like we are on the same page. We can have different ideas but if you have accepted Jesus and His salvation what else really matters?

In a world filled with wickedness, chaos, and nonsense, it is the truth that brings comfort, gives hope, joy, and defeats doubt. It is all we have to cling to when the world is lost. It is the lifeboat to save those who are drowning. Jesus said He would teach His disciples to be fishermen of men. It is the truth that attracted those who answered the nudges of the Spirit. A truth that Solomon found comforting even after seeking all the glamour and wisdom of the world that first left him feeling hopeless. Truth is important to God as God is the Supreme judge. We learned from God's example and to represent this we can use lady justice as imagery



As Christians we are to judge between what is moral, what is truth, and scripture says we will one day help judge the world.

Blindfolded (be led to the truth)-
In truth we should check our biases, personal experience and emotions at the door. Let the truth be revealed naturally.

Toga-
It is a high responsibility to promote truth as scripture says that teachers will have a heavier judgement.

Double edged sword-
Respect that the truth can land you on either side of the issue. Always be prepared to accept that.

Scales- we gain truth through good arguments, facts, evidence, or natural order of design like gravity is a truth of natural design. We who have come to faith know God's Word to be truth so we weigh all things against the Word.

The Word will either outweigh the other scale or we find that new compelling evidence has now outweighed our previous understanding of the Word. So we correct our interpretation as new understanding has come to light.

This natural flow is what I believe to be the operation of the Holy Spirit. Symbolically we should be led (blindfolded) versus us taking the lead. Just as Paul was prevented by the Holy Spirit in Acts to enter Asia but instead was led towards Rome.

Nothing else matters but salvation and salvation has been debated between legalists, universalists, atheists, Hindus, Muslims (jihad/works), Limited atonement (Calvinists concept of God choosing who is saved), Jehovah Witness where I believe 144,000 are saved, Mormons has a universalist idea if multiple heavens and saving people after they die, and free will (people have the will to respond or deny Jesus).

Salvation can be a sticky topic as to why truth is so important.

You, I or others may not agree on every topic but our unity is in the Biblical account of Jesus Christ. Where God was focused on, the people found unity. Where the body may be classified as one body, we have different parts within the body that all contribute to the whole. The body parts all await the signal of the brain but yet all operate differently and yet as one. So must we be at all times in unison ready to respond to the Lord's directional signal.

Like yeast to bread, cancer to a body will spread. We must always guard our body by close examination. Once located the cancer must be removed or else unity will be lost to decay and eventually death.

Anyways thank you for being kind. I hope this thread has not offended you in anyway. It was my effort to search for truth.

 

[JesusLives]

In a world filled with wickedness, chaos, and nonsense, it is the truth that brings comfort, gives hope, joy, and defeats doubt. It is all we have to cling to when the world is lost. It is the lifeboat to save those who are drowning. Jesus said He would teach His disciples to be fishermen of men. It is the truth that attracted those who answered the nudges of the Spirit. A truth that Solomon found comforting even after seeking all the glamour and wisdom of the world that first left him feeling hopeless. Truth is important to God as God is the Supreme judge. We learned from God's example and to represent this we can use lady justice as imagery

View attachment 233252

As Christians we are to judge between what is moral, what is truth, and scripture says we will one day help judge the world.

Blindfolded (be led to the truth)-
In truth we should check our biases, personal experience and emotions at the door. Let the truth be revealed naturally.

Toga-
It is a high responsibility to promote truth as scripture says that teachers will have a heavier judgement.

Double edged sword-
Respect that the truth can land you on either side of the issue. Always be prepared to accept that.

Scales- we gain truth through good arguments, facts, evidence, or natural order of design like gravity is a truth of natural design. We who have come to faith know God's Word to be truth so we weigh all things against the Word.

The Word will either outweigh the other scale or we find that new compelling evidence has now outweighed our previous understanding of the Word. So we correct our interpretation as new understanding has come to light.

This natural flow is what I believe to be the operation of the Holy Spirit. Symbolically we should be led (blindfolded) versus us taking the lead. Just as Paul was prevented by the Holy Spirit in Acts to enter Asia but instead was led towards Rome.

Nothing else matters but salvation and salvation has been debated between legalists, universalists, atheists, Hindus, Muslims (jihad/works), Limited atonement (Calvinists concept of God choosing who is saved), Jehovah Witness where I believe 144,000 are saved, Mormons has a universalist idea if multiple heavens and saving people after they die, and free will (people have the will to respond or deny Jesus).

Salvation can be a sticky topic as to why truth is so important.

You, I or others may not agree on every topic but our unity is in the Biblical account of Jesus Christ. Where God was focused on, the people found unity. Where the body may be classified as one body, we have different parts within the body that all contribute to the whole. The body parts all await the signal of the brain but yet all operate differently and yet as one. So must we be at all times in unison ready to respond to the Lord's directional signal.

Like yeast to bread, cancer to a body will spread. We must always guard our body by close examination. Once located the cancer must be removed or else unity will be lost to decay and eventually death.

Anyways thank you for being kind. I hope this thread has not offended you in anyway. It was my effort to search for truth.

I really am not offended by this thread at all quite the opposite. it has been refreshing to be able to debate in a conversational way. I believe God is in charge and ultimately we will be found on the same side eventually as in the final days there are only two groups of people those who accept Jesus and the gift of salvation and those who don't. There will be no denominational name attached.. The Holy Spirit is working on the hearts of all of us seeking the truth and God won't leave any of us behind who seek Him and His truth.

The good news is I can reach people you don't know and visa versa you reach ones I can't... The body is big and enough work for us all in the sharing and caring of others. Not sure where you are letting your light shine but my light is in Jamestown TN right now. I have been enjoying getting to know your personality through this thread. I haven't been on CC very much lately because I was bored by the topics and tired of the arguments plus busy gardening and getting settled in TN as we just moved here last November and then unpacking and summer gardening. We just cleaned out the last flower box in the front today preparing for winter. This topic brought me back as I was and am interested and if I can help clear up anything or show that not all SDA's are following after a person rather than God well then I have done my job at the end of the day. God/Jesus is our only true holy one to be followed and the Bible is the book to use rather than a book written by men or women... Doctrines change with the denomination but God's word does not change and Salvation only comes through the blood of Jesus. We are all sinners and all in need of Jesus our Savior.... Thanks for helping me to have something interesting to me to converse about.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

I really am not offended by this thread at all quite the opposite. it has been refreshing to be able to debate in a conversational way. I believe God is in charge and ultimately we will be found on the same side eventually as in the final days there are only two groups of people those who accept Jesus and the gift of salvation and those who don't. There will be no denominational name attached.. The Holy Spirit is working on the hearts of all of us seeking the truth and God won't leave any of us behind who seek Him and His truth.

The good news is I can reach people you don't know and visa versa you reach ones I can't... The body is big and enough work for us all in the sharing and caring of others. Not sure where you are letting your light shine but my light is in Jamestown TN right now. I have been enjoying getting to know your personality through this thread. I haven't been on CC very much lately because I was bored by the topics and tired of the arguments plus busy gardening and getting settled in TN as we just moved here last November and then unpacking and summer gardening. We just cleaned out the last flower box in the front today preparing for winter. This topic brought me back as I was and am interested and if I can help clear up anything or show that not all SDA's are following after a person rather than God well then I have done my job at the end of the day. God/Jesus is our only true holy one to be followed and the Bible is the book to use rather than a book written by men or women... Doctrines change with the denomination but God's word does not change and Salvation only comes through the blood of Jesus. We are all sinners and all in need of Jesus our Savior.... Thanks for helping me to have something interesting to me to converse about.

I really am not offended by this thread at all quite the opposite. it has been refreshing to be able to debate in a conversational way.

Thank goodness because I believe debate is healthy when done in a respectful loving way. That is how I am often forced to go deeper into subjects to gain a good understanding.

I believe God is in charge and ultimately we will be found on the same side eventually as in the final days there are only two groups of people those who accept Jesus and the gift of salvation and those who don't. There will be no denominational name attached.. The Holy Spirit is working on the hearts of all of us seeking the truth and God won't leave any of us behind who seek Him and His truth.

Amen I agree!

The good news is I can reach people you don't know and visa versa you reach ones I can't... The body is big and enough work for us all in the sharing and caring of others. Not sure where you are letting your light shine but my light is in Jamestown TN right now.

Tennessee is a beautiful state. Just had one of my friends from church move up to Knoxeville TN. We been in South Georgia where evangelism can be difficult as churches are everywhere. We are looking for a new church due to our oldest teen we gained guardianship of was perceived as a threat by a family in leadership. The assistant pastor who I still meet with wants us to come back and give the individuals an opportunity to apologize.

I have been enjoying getting to know your personality through this thread. I haven't been on CC very much lately because I was bored by the topics and tired of the arguments

Oh I agree, the subjects I wish get more attention often get surpassed by others that do not speak to me in the need to answer.

plus busy gardening and getting settled in TN as we just moved here last November and then unpacking and summer gardening. We just cleaned out the last flower box in the front today preparing for winter.

Do y'all plant vegetables or fruits as well?

This topic brought me back as I was and am interested and if I can help clear up anything or show that not all SDA's are following after a person rather than God well then I have done my job at the end of the day.

Thank you, it helps my conscience about the issue. Even though I see my grandparents being of the SDA's who do take a lot of White's writings to heart like the book given to me. They have never outright said it but I guess by his letter it was implied that I if continued on this path and the tribulation was to begin, I would accept the Mark as a Sunday worshipper.

God/Jesus is our only true holy one to be followed and the Bible is the book to use rather than a book written by men or women... Doctrines change with the denomination but God's word does not change and Salvation only comes through the blood of Jesus. We are all sinners and all in need of Jesus our Savior.... Thanks for helping me to have something interesting to me to converse about

I totally agree. It is amazing how the Bible can be so simply understood by children but as adults they complicate it beyond the truth.

 

[JesusLives]

Thank goodness because I believe debate is healthy when done in a respectful loving way. That is how I am often forced to go deeper into subjects to gain a good understanding.



Amen I agree!



Tennessee is a beautiful state. Just had one of my friends from church move up to Knoxeville TN. We been in South Georgia where evangelism can be difficult as churches are everywhere. We are looking for a new church due to our oldest teen we gained guardianship of was perceived as a threat by a family in leadership. The assistant pastor who I still meet with wants us to come back and give the individuals an opportunity to apologize.



Oh I agree, the subjects I wish get more attention often get surpassed by others that do not speak to me in the need to answer.



Do y'all plant vegetables or fruits as well?



Thank you, it helps my conscience about the issue. Even though I see my grandparents being of the SDA's who do take a lot of White's writings to heart like the book given to me. They have never outright said it but I guess by his letter it was implied that I if continued on this path and the tribulation was to begin, I would accept the Mark as a Sunday worshipper.



I totally agree. It is amazing how the Bible can be so simply understood by children but as adults they complicate it beyond the truth.

Since this was our first garden and we were just getting started We did mostly vegies. I tried cantalope and we had three but I planted it too late so the crop was a bust as didn't have time enough to mature. but there is always next year. I would like to get some strawberries going at some point and probably watermelon also but mostly vegetables and flowers this year. Also grew some nice basil and thyme which I just dried out and put in my spice bottle last night...can't get fresher than that...for a spice...

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Since this was our first garden and we were just getting started We did mostly vegies. I tried cantalope and we had three but I planted it too late so the crop was a bust as didn't have time enough to mature. but there is always next year. I would like to get some strawberries going at some point and probably watermelon also but mostly vegetables and flowers this year. Also grew some nice basil and thyme which I just dried out and put in my spice bottle last night...can't get fresher than that...for a spice...

We also tried vegetables and fruit this year. Due to many different reasons we didn't have the time to care for it. The only thing to survive was the grapes vine, blueberry bushes, blackberry bushes, and fruit trees even though the dog ate one of the trees.

I was real successful a few years ago but I had more time.

I was thinking it would be nice if the church could have it's hand in a plot of land for a communal garden. The youth could volunteer each week and community groups could volunteer on different weeks.

The food could go to the nourishment of the church members who participate and the excess could go to those in need.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

op: SDA a cult?

Depends upon The LORD JESUS CHRIST & HIS Gospel Of GRACE:

TRUTH: 1) HE IS "God Almighty" & 2) HIS BLOOD Is ALL-Sufficient = not a cult

Lies: 3) He is "Archangel Michael" and 2) His blood is INsufficient = a CULT!

Half truths: combo of Either 1 + 4 OR 2 + 3 = a CULT!!

God's Simple Will!

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Trying to decide should I debate my grandfather in law or no. Or because I know it isn't a salvation issue (even though he thinks it is) I should just keep the peace.

His words sent to me,

“The main issue in the last days is worship on biblical Sabbath or Sunday that the Catholic church says is the right day. Keep ALL of the commandments. Break one and you break them all. Mark of the beast is Sunday worship. Read the great controversy by Ellen White. It explains everything in accurate detail. Soon there will be a Sunday law passes in USA. When it passes probation closes. Those who worship on Sunday will be LOST.”

 

[Magenta]

Since this was our first garden and we were just getting started We did mostly vegies. I tried cantalope and we had three but I planted it too late so the crop was a bust as didn't have time enough to mature. but there is always next year. I would like to get some strawberries going at some point and probably watermelon also but mostly vegetables and flowers this year. Also grew some nice basil and thyme which I just dried out and put in my spice bottle last night...can't get fresher than that...for a spice...

I learned a good gardening lesson when I watched Saints and Strangers, which was about the people who came to America on the Mayflower in 1620. The indigenous people taught the pilgrims to plant corn, beans, and melons together, because the beans will use the corn stalks as a support, and the melons, which cover a significant area and have large leaves, help keep moisture in the ground

 

[SophieT]

Trying to decide should I debate my grandfather in law or no. Or because I know it isn't a salvation issue (even though he thinks it is) I should just keep the peace.

His words sent to me,

“The main issue in the last days is worship on biblical Sabbath or Sunday that the Catholic church says is the right day. Keep ALL of the commandments. Break one and you break them all. Mark of the beast is Sunday worship. Read the great controversy by Ellen White. It explains everything in accurate detail. Soon there will be a Sunday law passes in USA. When it passes probation closes. Those who worship on Sunday will be LOST.”

I don't know what good would come out of that...

we know that the mark is an actual mark and not a day and we also know we are not persuaded by Catholicism

frankly, if I had someone in my family who kept bringing up something like that, I think it could do more harm than good unless I thought the Lord was specifically directing me to talk about it to them

that's my opinion of course but since you put it out there

 

[Roughsoul1991]

I don't know what good would come out of that...

we know that the mark is an actual mark and not a day and we also know we are not persuaded by Catholicism

frankly, if I had someone in my family who kept bringing up something like that, I think it could do more harm than good unless I thought the Lord was specifically directing me to talk about it to them

that's my opinion of course but since you put it out there

I agree. My heart leaning more towards ignoring it lol

 

[ewq1938]

Trying to decide should I debate my grandfather in law or no. Or because I know it isn't a salvation issue (even though he thinks it is) I should just keep the peace.

His words sent to me,

“The main issue in the last days is worship on biblical Sabbath or Sunday that the Catholic church says is the right day. Keep ALL of the commandments. Break one and you break them all. Mark of the beast is Sunday worship. Read the great controversy by Ellen White. It explains everything in accurate detail. Soon there will be a Sunday law passes in USA. When it passes probation closes. Those who worship on Sunday will be LOST.”

That's a problem. Luckily there will never be such a "Sunday law" so this "probation" will never begin. Ask him what happens to a Catholic or Protestant if they die before the probation.

 

[ankagirl]

Here is the SDA Statement of Faith. https://www.adventist.org/beliefs/

"Salvation is all of grace and not of works, and its fruit is obedience to the Commandments."--from SDA Statement of Faith

As I said before I wouldn't consider joining a 7th Day Adventist church because they overemphasize the Sabbath in a legalistic way, though now that I have begun to study it I can find no reason why we don't honor it as we do the other 10 commandments in as far as resting and remember God's completed work of Creation. It is also pointing to Christ's finished work on the cross. Additionally, to the final Sabbath rest when we go to be with the Lord at the end of the age. Satan used the Roman Catholic Church to change the Sabbath to Sunday--why? This is something I want to look into further.

Please see my other post regarding this. The other problem I have is Ellen G. White--the bible says if a prophet speaks something that not does not come to pass do not listen to them.

As to the Holy Spirit revealing to people in the SDA the 'Truth'--well that could be said of believers in all denominations--there are so many false doctrines n our mainstream churches--what about them? Why doesn't the Holy Spirit reveal truth to them?

The sad thing is all denominations have false doctrine mixed with the truth. All.

I did include a link which explains how Adventists come to the conclusion that worshipping on Sunday is 'the mark'. As we know, those who have the mark of the beast cannot be saved (Revelations 14:9-10, 20:4). So according to the Adventists, unless you worship on Sabbath, you canNOT be saved. This makes their 'salvation plan' works based.
I agree with you on Ellen White being a false prophet. From what I've heard, she was a pretty weird woman!

As for resting on the Sabbath day, a good passage from the Bible to read is Matthew 12:1-13.

 

[Laura798]

I did include a link which explains how Adventists come to the conclusion that worshipping on Sunday is 'the mark'. As we know, those who have the mark of the beast cannot be saved (Revelations 14:9-10, 20:4). So according to the Adventists, unless you worship on Sabbath, you canNOT be saved. This makes their 'salvation plan' works based.
I agree with you on Ellen White being a false prophet. From what I've heard, she was a pretty weird woman!

As for resting on the Sabbath day, a good passage from the Bible to read is Matthew 12:1-13.

Hi Anka,

I don't really see that passage about resting but rather emphasizing Christ's point of not becoming legalistic about it as the Pharisees had done, "Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath"---instead of being a day of rest, it had become a day of rules and regulations, which quite a number of denominations did over the years, though that's rarely if ever seen in our churches nowadays.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Soon there will be a Sunday law passes in USA.

That would not be such a bad idea. But equating that to the Mark of the Beast is total nonsense.