Shall we sin that grace may abound?

[Burn1986]

I don't believe he said that, but I'll let @wattie answer for himself.
The believer in Christ has the gift of everlasting life, which never ends.

-Believers still have their flesh and old sin nature when they trust Jesus as Savior.
-When we sin, we have the privilege to go before God's throne of grace to confess those sins. The cross is still in view as the reason we have that option. This confession does not restore a gift that was never lost. It restores the fellowship lost. David sinned and and said, "restore unto me the joy of the salvation."
Joy is lost and the fellowship that can result in answered prayers. Psalm 32, Jeremiah 3:13

Well the OP was a gig against OSAS, so I answered that. But I do believe God is saying we need to move on to greater spiritual issues than this.

 

[Burn1986]

^^^I meant it was a gig to those against OSAS.

 

[Freed18]

That's really enough. Your application does not mean we never sin again.

For anyone claiming they do not sin, the Apostle John has this to say to you:

8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. I John 1:8

There is no human perfection. No one can truthfully sat they no longer sin See above (I John 1:8)

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. I John 1: 9-10

John is writing to believers. He is not writing to unbelievers.

That verse of 1 John 1, and verses 6 and 10, address those walking in darkness...which Prov 4:19 says is "the way of the wicked."
Sinners cannot truthfully say they have fellowship with God or His Son, they cannot say they have no sin, and they cannot say they have never sinned.
1 John 2:3 says that sinners don't even know God.

I walk in the light, which 1 John 1:5 says is God...and there is no sin in here with us.

 

[Freed18]

So, if you’re saved and you sin, then you ask for forgiveness, then are you saved still, or in that period between sin and confession, if you died, would you go to Hell then?

Oh cmon, it’s baloney. If you’re saved then you’re saved. How are you gonna get God out of you? Meanwhile, God is in you saying, “Cmon, you’re forgiven. Now let’s move on to greater spiritual things.”

You're claiming the trophy before the race is over.
I will claim "I am saved", when I am raised from the dead to eternal life.

 

[Burn1986]

You're claiming the trophy before the race is over.
I will claim "I am saved", when I am raised from the dead to eternal life.

I mean, I guess.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Ugh.
Where to start...
If the old man has been destroyed, how can it still commit sin ?
Having been reborn of God's seed makes it impossible to, as you say, keep stumbling.
Just as it is impossible for grape seeds to bring forth figs, so too God's seed cannot bring forth the devil's fruit !

You posted..."Because if they did, they'd actually be obedient to the Lord and able to resist sin and this debate wouldn't exist."...then say, the regenerated still commit sin.
So, which side are you truly representing ?
The sinful or the sinless ?

You seem to have poor reading comprehension skills. Read my post over again.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

I don’t blame God for my sinning, don't know where you get that from. And I do submit to Him.

Anyway..regarding the Revelation ..God spitting them out of His mouth.

1) This is about an entire local church situation, being admonished to over come lukewarmness. Not an individual believer on their own.

2) The candlestick being removed also is about an entire local church..no longer being one. Not about an individual believer's soul/spirit.

If an entire local church is being addressed, then that is the application.

Calvinists don't outright blame God for not saving a person but that is basically what they believe. So OSAS believers too blame God for their own sins and not obeying God. That's the truth of it and it makes those two groups uncomfortable so they couch their beliefs in nice sounding but false teaching.

Regarding the church at Loadicea churches are made up of individuals. Note that after He rebukes that church, Jesus calls out to individuals:

Revelation 3:19 Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent. 20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.

21 To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne. 22 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”

So in the end, Jesus points out the general sin of the assembly BUT ultimately calls each person in that church to individual responsibility.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

This is quite the statement. You are overreaching your ability to discern or know anyone's relationship with the third person of the
Trinty. I don't necessairly refer to myself as OSAS BUT I fully understand that I do not keep myself by my own ability or the ridiculous belief that my behavior will keep me 'saved'.

20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit, 21 keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ that leads to eternal life. 22 And have mercy on those who doubt; 23 save others by snatching them out of the fire; to others show mercy with fear, hating even the garment[g] stained by the flesh.

24 Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy, 25 to the only God, our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time[h] and now and forever. Amen.

Actually your premise that OSAS people, again I do not call myself that knowing that it is Christ my Savior who keeps me saved, are disobedient, comes from someone who in ignorance makes sweeping judgements about people she does not know. You are stepping where you do not belong.

I suggest you mind yourself and do not for one moment think you can mind others. It is obvious you cannot.

I just post when God prompts me to. He's my God after all, not you.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

That's really enough. Your application does not mean we never sin again.

For anyone claiming they do not sin, the Apostle John has this to say to you:

8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. I John 1:8

There is no human perfection. No one can truthfully sat they no longer sin See above (I John 1:8)

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. I John 1: 9-10

John is writing to believers. He is not writing to unbelievers.

John writes that "no one born of God makes a practice of sinning… he cannot keep on sinning."

This isn't talking about being sinless, The verse rules out a lifestyle of sin, not a single act of sin. The born-of-God person still stumbles occasionally. What he can't do is make stumbling his whole walk.

In other words, sin is no longer the settled direction of his life.

Good grief.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

That is called santicfication and EVERY single actual believer lives that EVERY single day and it is not your business to condemn anyone.

I am wondering why your material is not sourced. Where is it from.

I'm not condemning anyone. You choose to feel condemned.

The source of the verses I quoted are from the Bible. You just have to look them up to see if they really exist and mean what they mean. You just choose not to believe them.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

I think she gets her ideas from that very long thread that was created by that person who called himself vassal. His belief was that the commandments were the covenant with God. He refused to acknowledge that the blood of Christ is the new covenant even though Jesus plainly said it was at what we call The Last Supper. (Passover)

No, God is the one who taught me these things through His Holy Spirit and the Bible. This has always been my belief since I was saved at 17.

I don't agree with vassal about his SDA beliefs at all even though he won't admit it.

 

[wattie]

Calvinists don't outright blame God for not saving a person but that is basically what they believe. So OSAS believers too blame God for their own sins and not obeying God. That's the truth of it and it makes those two groups uncomfortable so they couch their beliefs in nice sounding but false teaching.

Regarding the church at Loadicea churches are made up of individuals. Note that after He rebukes that church, Jesus calls out to individuals:

Revelation 3:19 Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent. 20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.

21 To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne. 22 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”

So in the end, Jesus points out the general sin of the assembly BUT ultimately calls each person in that church to individual responsibility.

I've never heard of OSAS believers blaming God for their own sins. Also I'm no calvinist. I don't agree with most of the TULIP.

I thought you might alude to the individuals in the church regarding Revelation. The thing is..a luke warm church..so they ALL individually lose salvation?

That doesn't make sense, do it's gotta be something different.

So are you saying they are admonished to overcome and some, but not others would lose salvation?

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

I've never heard of OSAS believers blaming God for their own sins. Also I'm no calvinist. I don't agree with most of the TULIP.

I thought you might alude to the individuals in the church regarding Revelation. The thing is..a luke warm church..so they ALL individually lose salvation?

That doesn't make sense, do it's gotta be something different.

So are you saying they are admonished to overcome and some, but not others would lose salvation?

OSAS believers and Calvinists couch their blaming God in nice phrases but they do ultimately blame God for the things they are responsible for.

Only the ones that don't repent of what God has against them will lose their salvation because they choose not to. God won't forgive if a person doesn't repent. This is basic Christianity 101.

Luke 13:3 "Unless you repent, you will all likewise perish."

 

[JohnDB]

 

[pinebeach]

I just post when God prompts me to. He's my God after all, not you.

Well, I don't know who or what you are calling God here, but when a person posts what scripture disagrees with, they are wrong. You have done that many times, especially in the thread by your friend vassal.

In other words, sin is no longer the settled direction of his life.

Good grief.

That is what I wrote. Why are you so upset about it?

I'm not condemning anyone. You choose to feel condemned.

The source of the verses I quoted are from the Bible. You just have to look them up to see if they really exist and mean what they mean. You just choose not to believe them.

Why do you try to create false assumptions about others? That is bearing false witness. I choose to believe scripture and that tells me I am not condemmed but here we have a 'believer', you, making things up about me. Not cool.

You posted far more than scripture so you should post the source of the notes.

 

[HeIsHere]

I don’t blame God for my sinning, don't know where you get that from. And I do submit to Him.

Anyway..regarding the Revelation ..God spitting them out of His mouth.

1) This is about an entire local church situation, being admonished to over come lukewarmness. Not an individual believer on their own.

2) The candlestick being removed also is about an entire local church..no longer being one. Not about an individual believer's soul/spirit.

If an entire local church is being addressed, then that is the application.

Yes as well, when read in context, it is about a church which was relying on their own righteousness instead of the Lord, nowhere is the loss of salvation in view.
Spewing out His mouth, is not God rejecting his children and taking away Holy Spirit, that is a horrible understanding of the metaphor.

 

[pinebeach]

No, God is the one who taught me these things through His Holy Spirit and the Bible. This has always been my belief since I was saved at 17.

I don't agree with vassal about his SDA beliefs at all even though he won't admit it.

Well the problem is that your posts are still in that thread and if you actually believe the commandments are the covenant we have with God, then you are in grave error.

As I posted a good number of times in that thread, the covenant is through the blood of Christ. That is in scripture and vassal would
not answer when I referred him to it. He said he only followed Jesus....he did not bother with the rest of the NT. Why, when scripture completely refutes his beliefs and apparently yours also, do you say the Holy Spirit taught you? You cannot say that if you deny
what scripture actually states.

26 Now as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and after blessing it broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, “Take, eat; this is my body.” 27 And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, “Drink of it, all of you,

28 for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. 29 I tell you I will not drink again of this fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.”

If you continue with the error you said you believed in that other thread and apparently are continuing it here, that the commandments are the covenant, then you do not understand salvation. You are not to be believed when you say God told you
or the Holy Spirit told you.

The Holy Spirit does not testify of Himself and He does not change the understanding of scripture for anyone.

 

[pinebeach]

I notice OSAS believers don't acknowledge the Holy Spirit and His power to change them. Because if they did, they'd actually be obedient to the Lord and able to resist sin and this debate wouldn't exist. They accuse of sinless perfection instead.

This is nonsense and just something else you project in your false understanding of scripture and the actual covenant enacted
through Christ's shed blood.

No one in this thread has ever stated that they continue in sin or do not believe the Holy Spirit does nothing. The debate exists because of false beliefs, such as yours, and thinking it is your job to condemn others.

 

[pinebeach]

I mean, I guess.

We know we are saved in the here and now as the Bible plainly tells us. Some here think we can never know. They are confused and like to confuse others.

 

[pinebeach]

Oh yeah..I know the one. Dunno if it was the case, but there are some, not all, orthodox Jews who then say Jesus is the Messiah, but actually don't say He is God and keep the orthodox ways.

Seventh day Adventists can do the same kind of thing. Also 'Church of God'.

Most people here most likely do know about that thread and the claim of the op that the commandments were the covenant for salvation.