Shall we sin that grace may abound?
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First step to obey the Father's will:
John 6:40 KJV
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
This is the obedience at receiving salvation: to believe on Jesus Christ. One time event, by grace, through faith in Him.
John 6:40 KJV
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
This is the obedience at receiving salvation: to believe on Jesus Christ. One time event, by grace, through faith in Him.
Believing is more than mental assent or a one time occasion. It's also obeying Him and successfully resisting sin through the Holy Spirit who enables us to do those things.
I notice OSAS believers don't acknowledge the Holy Spirit and His power to change them. Because if they did, they'd actually be obedient to the Lord and able to resist sin and this debate wouldn't exist. They accuse of sinless perfection instead.
But this is what sinless in Christ means:
Because of Christ's finished work, God declares believers righteous. We are counted as sinless in our standing before Him — not because we've achieved moral perfection, but because Christ's righteousness is credited to us (2 Corinthians 5:21; Romans 5:1; 8:1). This is a the reality, that "there is now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus."
But that doesn't mean you can be careless in your walk. If you're saved and willing to obey, He gives you the Holy Spirit. He doesn't just give His precious Holy Spirit to anyone who give mere mental assent and won't obey Him. He expects true change in the genuinely saved person.
John writes that "no one born of God makes a practice of sinning… he cannot keep on sinning."
- The regenerated nature (the "seed" of God within us) does not and cannot sin.
- What we are in our new identity is incompatible with a life of habitual, willful rebellion.
- Sin is no longer our nature or pattern — it is an aberration, not the norm.
- It does not mean moral perfection in this life.
- It does not mean we are exempt from the need to confess (1 John 1:9).
- It does not license a "sin and be forgiven" attitude — the point is that sin is no longer natural or sustaining for the believer.
The true sign of someone genuinely saved is that they do change and conform to the life of Christ who is obedient to the Father and resists sin. And this is all done through the Holy Spirit who enables us.
If you don't have have that changed life that loves Him enough to obey Him and successfully resist sin, you just have to talk to God about it if you're willing to submit to Him and not resist His work in you. It's really not hard to please God (obeying and resisting Him) if you're fully submitted to the Holy Spirit continually.
So this is not a one time event. Not a set it and forget it deal. It is a continual walk with and in Christ.
Believing is more than mental assent or a one time occasion. It's also obeying Him and successfully resisting sin through the Holy Spirit who enables us to do those things.
I notice OSAS believers don't acknowledge the Holy Spirit and His power to change them. Because if they did, they'd actually be obedient to the Lord and able to resist sin and this debate wouldn't exist. They accuse of sinless perfection instead.
But this is what sinless in Christ means:
Because of Christ's finished work, God declares believers righteous. We are counted as sinless in our standing before Him — not because we've achieved moral perfection, but because Christ's righteousness is credited to us (2 Corinthians 5:21; Romans 5:1; 8:1). This is a the reality, that "there is now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus."
But that doesn't mean you can be careless in your walk. If you're saved and willing to obey, He gives you the Holy Spirit. He doesn't just give His precious Holy Spirit to anyone who give mere mental assent and won't obey Him. He expects true change in the genuinely saved person.
John writes that "no one born of God makes a practice of sinning… he cannot keep on sinning."
This does not mean believers never stumble. John himself says, "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves" (1 John 1:8) and "If anyone does sin, we have an advocate" (1 John 2:1)
- The regenerated nature (the "seed" of God within us) does not and cannot sin.
- What we are in our new identity is incompatible with a life of habitual, willful rebellion.
- Sin is no longer our nature or pattern — it is an aberration, not the norm.
To be "sinless in Christ" means: you are accounted perfect before God because of what Christ did, and your new nature is fundamentally at war with sin — so while you will still stumble, you will not remain in sin, and sin has no final claim on you. The goal is progressive conformity to that reality: "when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is" (1 John 3:2).
- It does not mean moral perfection in this life.
- It does not mean we are exempt from the need to confess (1 John 1:9).
- It does not license a "sin and be forgiven" attitude — the point is that sin is no longer natural or sustaining for the believer.
The true sign of someone genuinely saved is that they do change and conform to the life of Christ who is obedient to the Father and resists sin. And this is all done through the Holy Spirit who enables us.
If you don't have have that changed life that loves Him enough to obey Him and successfully resist sin, you just have to talk to God about it if you're willing to submit to Him and not resist His work in you. It's really not hard to please God (obeying and resisting Him) if you're fully submitted to the Holy Spirit continually.
So this is not a one time event. Not a set it and forget it deal. It is a continual walk with and in Christ.
Once believing on the Lord Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit indwelling the believer will work on them with the fruits of the Spirit. So, they have everlasting life as per John 3:36, 5:24, 6:40, 8:40, Romans 5:8, and also the teaching, correcting, grace etc.. of the Holy Spirit.
OSAS doesn't mean saved and forget it. It means permanently once saved always saved, with the Holy Spirit spurring them on.
Salvation is a free gift, not by works, by grace through faith in Jesus. Sanctification is the growing pocess following this. Not the means of getting salvation.
Of course.
Only the Lord Jesus was sinless.
He was constantly blasting the self righteous Pharisees, and scribes.
When you repent of self righteousness to trust in the Savior, He then imparts to you His gift of righteousness to your account. That is the proper repentance . You can only trust Him or self. Keeping the law aka "repent of sins" is what the pharisees taught the people.
The Holy Spirit won't force you but you must willingly submit continually. You can't blame God for sinning every day and claiming it's impossible to obey Him. If you are, it's because you're resisting His work and not submit/abiding in Him.
You're ignoring all the scriptures that say that you can fall away:
| Passage | Key Idea |
| Hebrews 6:4–6 | "It is impossible… for those who have once been enlightened… and have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance." |
| Hebrews 10:26–31 | No sacrifice for sin remains for one who deliberately sins after receiving the knowledge of the truth. |
| Hebrews 3:12–14 | "Take care… lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God." |
| Hebrews 2:1 | "We must pay the most careful attention… lest we drift away." |
| 1 Corinthians 10:12 | "Let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall." |
| Matthew 24:10–13 | "Many will fall away… and because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold." |
| Luke 8:13 | Those who "believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away." |
| John 6:66 | "After this many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him." |
| John 16:1–4 | "I have said all this to you to keep you from falling away." |
| 1 Timothy 4:1 | "In later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits." |
| 1 Timothy 1:19 | "By rejecting conscience, certain persons have made shipwreck of their faith." |
| 2 Timothy 4:10 | "Demas has forsaken me, having loved this present world." |
| 2 Thessalonians 2:3 | "That day will not come unless the falling away comes first." |
| 2 Peter 3:17 | "Beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked." |
| Jude 1:12, 19 | Warns against those who "follow after flesh in lust of the unclean spirit" and who "draw away" others. |
| 1 John 2:19 | "They went out from us, but they were not of ours." |
| Acts 20:29–31 | "Grievous wolves will come in… Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples." |
The Hebrews passages (especially 6:4–6 and 10:26–31) carry the strongest language — they describe a deliberate, final rejection that, according to the text, cannot be reversed.
The Epistles (1 & 2 Timothy, 2 Peter, Jude) focus more on the process of drifting away through false teaching and worldliness, and the Gospels show both Jesus' warnings and real examples of disciples turning back.
What is missing in the OSAS doctrine is Jesus as Lord. They want His salvation without His Lordship. But there is no salvation without His Lordship.
Of course it's not impossible to obey God!The Holy Spirit won't force you but you must willingly submit continually. You can't blame God for sinning every day and claiming it's impossible to obey Him. If you are, it's because you're resisting His work and not submit/abiding in Him.
You're ignoring all the scriptures that say that you can fall away:
Passage Key Idea Hebrews 6:4–6 "It is impossible… for those who have once been enlightened… and have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance." Hebrews 10:26–31 No sacrifice for sin remains for one who deliberately sins after receiving the knowledge of the truth. Hebrews 3:12–14 "Take care… lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God." Hebrews 2:1 "We must pay the most careful attention… lest we drift away." 1 Corinthians 10:12 "Let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall." Matthew 24:10–13 "Many will fall away… and because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold." Luke 8:13 Those who "believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away." John 6:66 "After this many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him." John 16:1–4 "I have said all this to you to keep you from falling away." 1 Timothy 4:1 "In later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits." 1 Timothy 1:19 "By rejecting conscience, certain persons have made shipwreck of their faith." 2 Timothy 4:10 "Demas has forsaken me, having loved this present world." 2 Thessalonians 2:3 "That day will not come unless the falling away comes first." 2 Peter 3:17 "Beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked." Jude 1:12, 19 Warns against those who "follow after flesh in lust of the unclean spirit" and who "draw away" others. 1 John 2:19 "They went out from us, but they were not of ours." Acts 20:29–31 "Grievous wolves will come in… Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples."
The Hebrews passages (especially 6:4–6 and 10:26–31) carry the strongest language — they describe a deliberate, final rejection that, according to the text, cannot be reversed.
The Epistles (1 & 2 Timothy, 2 Peter, Jude) focus more on the process of drifting away through false teaching and worldliness, and the Gospels show both Jesus' warnings and real examples of disciples turning back.
What is missing in the OSAS doctrine is Jesus as Lord. They want His salvation without His Lordship. But there is no salvation without His Lordship.
And it is God’s imputed righteousness that gets a believer to heaven, not their merit. They are sinless in His eyes, but still have the imperfect nature of a human. The flesh v the Spirit battle remains. But, we can overcome sin and confess sin.
As to the warnings, you gotta get the context of them. For one..the Hebrews 6 verses are after Hebrews 5, which talks about believers going on to maturity (of full age, no longer needing milk etc..). Hebrews 6 therefore isn't about fall away as in lose salvation..but fall away from maturity in their faith.
They can't be renewed to repentance, because they already did, in the basics, elementary principles, of their faith.
You’re right that the Spirit doesn’t force obedience, “walk in the Spirit” (Gal 5:16) is a real command but the leap you’re making is the same one the text never makes:
The warnings describe a real danger God uses to keep His people, not a final fall of the elect.
Every passage you listed is true, but none of them say a regenerate believer finally falls; they say falling is a real threat, and God preserves His own through those warnings.
Hebrews 6 and 10 describe apostasy as a decisive, hardened rejection but Hebrews also says the audience is “not of those who shrink back” (Heb 10:39).
1 Timothy 4:1 describes people departing from the faith but John says those who depart “were not of us” (1 John 2:19).
Jesus warns of falling away (John 16:1), and then says His sheep will never perish (John 10:28).
The tension is intentional:
real warnings, real responsibility, real danger and God’s preserving grace ensuring His people heed the warnings.
OSAS fails because it erases the warnings;
fatalism fails because it erases the responsibility.
The biblical pattern is perseverance: the elect abide because the Spirit keeps them abiding.
You say that it's not impossible to obey God but can you sustain that? That is only possible by submitting to the Holy Spirit continually. This is why our relationship with God is synergistic.
Like Calvinists who blame God if a person isn't saved, OSAS people blame God if a person doesn't obey Him. It doesn't work that way because God gave us free will. We must willingly choose to submit. He's not going to zap us into obedience like we're robots. We have to be willing to let Him cause us to obey.
And falling away isn't about maturity because Christians can fall away at any stage in their Christian walk if they stop abiding in Christ. You'll say that nothing and no one can snatch us away from God, but the Bible says you can freely remove yourself from God.
| Passage | Text (key phrase) |
| Isaiah 59:2 | "Your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden his face from you." |
| Jeremiah 2:13 | "They have forsaken me, the fountain of living waters, and dug their own cisterns." |
| 1 Timothy 1:19 | "By rejecting conscience, certain persons have made shipwreck of the faith." |
| Hebrews 3:12 | "Lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God." |
| 2 Peter 2:20–22 | "If, having escaped the defilements of the world… they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning." |
| Revelation 3:16 | "Because you are lukewarm… I will spit you out of my mouth." |
The Pattern
The consistent biblical theme is: God invites, but does not force. The language is always you who forsake, you who turn away, you who choose — and then God's response is to withdraw His presence and protection in consequence. The relationship is presented as real and personal, not mechanical.God isn't fooled. He knows it's not His fault even if OSAS people blame Him for their sinning and sins.
So submit to God and remain in Him. Let Him work in you to become obedient Christians who resist sin like Jesus does and become the holy and perfect Christian He commands us to be.
I don’t blame God for my sinning, don't know where you get that from. And I do submit to Him.You say that it's not impossible to obey God but can you sustain that? That is only possible by submitting to the Holy Spirit continually. This is why our relationship with God is synergistic.
Like Calvinists who blame God if a person isn't saved, OSAS people blame God if a person doesn't obey Him. It doesn't work that way because God gave us free will. We must willingly choose to submit. He's not going to zap us into obedience like we're robots. We have to be willing to let Him cause us to obey.
And falling away isn't about maturity because Christians can fall away at any stage in their Christian walk if they stop abiding in Christ. You'll say that nothing and no one can snatch us away from God, but the Bible says you can freely remove yourself from God.
Passage Text (key phrase) Isaiah 59:2 "Your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden his face from you." Jeremiah 2:13 "They have forsaken me, the fountain of living waters, and dug their own cisterns." 1 Timothy 1:19 "By rejecting conscience, certain persons have made shipwreck of the faith." Hebrews 3:12 "Lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God." 2 Peter 2:20–22 "If, having escaped the defilements of the world… they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning." Revelation 3:16 "Because you are lukewarm… I will spit you out of my mouth."
The Pattern
The consistent biblical theme is: God invites, but does not force. The language is always you who forsake, you who turn away, you who choose — and then God's response is to withdraw His presence and protection in consequence. The relationship is presented as real and personal, not mechanical.
God isn't fooled. He knows it's not His fault even if OSAS people blame Him for their sinning and sins.
So submit to God and remain in Him. Let Him work in you to become obedient Christians who resist sin like Jesus does and become the holy and perfect Christian He commands us to be.
Anyway..regarding the Revelation ..God spitting them out of His mouth.
1) This is about an entire local church situation, being admonished to over come lukewarmness. Not an individual believer on their own.
2) The candlestick being removed also is about an entire local church..no longer being one. Not about an individual believer's soul/spirit.
If an entire local church is being addressed, then that is the application.
Ugh.
Where to start...
If the old man has been destroyed, how can it still commit sin ?
Having been reborn of God's seed makes it impossible to, as you say, keep stumbling.
Just as it is impossible for grape seeds to bring forth figs, so too God's seed cannot bring forth the devil's fruit !
You posted..."Because if they did, they'd actually be obedient to the Lord and able to resist sin and this debate wouldn't exist."...then say, the regenerated still commit sin.
So, which side are you truly representing ?
The sinful or the sinless ?
This is quite the statement. You are overreaching your ability to discern or know anyone's relationship with the third person of the
Trinty. I don't necessairly refer to myself as OSAS BUT I fully understand that I do not keep myself by my own ability or the ridiculous belief that my behavior will keep me 'saved'.
20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit, 21 keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ that leads to eternal life. 22 And have mercy on those who doubt; 23 save others by snatching them out of the fire; to others show mercy with fear, hating even the garment[g] stained by the flesh.
24 Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy, 25 to the only God, our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time[h] and now and forever. Amen.
Actually your premise that OSAS people, again I do not call myself that knowing that it is Christ my Savior who keeps me saved, are disobedient, comes from someone who in ignorance makes sweeping judgements about people she does not know. You are stepping where you do not belong.
I suggest you mind yourself and do not for one moment think you can mind others. It is obvious you cannot.
That's really enough. Your application does not mean we never sin again.
For anyone claiming they do not sin, the Apostle John has this to say to you:
8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. I John 1:8
There is no human perfection. No one can truthfully sat they no longer sin See above (I John 1:8)
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. I John 1: 9-10
John is writing to believers. He is not writing to unbelievers.
That is called santicfication and EVERY single actual believer lives that EVERY single day and it is not your business to condemn anyone.
I am wondering why your material is not sourced. Where is it from.
I think she gets her ideas from that very long thread that was created by that person who called himself vassal. His belief was that the commandments were the covenant with God. He refused to acknowledge that the blood of Christ is the new covenant even though Jesus plainly said it was at what we call The Last Supper. (Passover)
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