Should wine be used for the Lord's Supper?

[posthuman]

I’ve shown you Scripture, you show me an article...

i looked through the article. it references or verbatim quotes at lest 20 scriptures.

not endorsing anything here, just saying, it isn't as tho he pointed you just to a complete opinion piece. he pointed you to an examination of the subject using scripture.

 

[John146]

What makes you think the committee of translators were inspired by God? Have you ever read their ingratiating letter to King James about their work that he hired them to write for him?

They believed they were handling the very words of God, but it really doesn’t matter what they thought.

 

[John146]

Of course.

It's the word of God insofar as it is a translation of it, and I need a translation.

I don't claim the translation is infallible though.

I am educated in accounting, and I understand the concept of materiality. If my translation is 99.99 percent accurate, it is materially the word of God. A small scribal error doesn't negate this. I don't need to understand the Greek/Hebrew and possess the original manuscripts to have this assurance.

God’s word is infallible. You either have it or you don’t. Which one? 99% is not good enough...

I don’t want to hijack this thread with my KJV only viewpoint.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

God’s word is infallible. You either have it or you don’t. Which one? 99% is not good enough...

Materially I have God's word. My favorite translation is ESV. I can go with NASB or even the dreaded NIV too.

KJV is not without error. If you claim that, then you are naive. There are even a few scribal errors in the original Masoretic manuscripts we have.

By the way, Jesus and the apostles quoted from the Septuagint as if it is authoritative too. Do I think the Septuagint has some problems? Yes.

But they are not material.

 

[John146]

By the way, Jesus and the apostles quoted from the Septuagint as if it is authoritative too. Do I think the Septuagint has some problems? Yes.

I’ve easily refuted this on other threads.

The KJV has never found to be in error, just so called errors Bible skeptics claim.

 

[posthuman]

The spiritual meaning is what is most important and to use fermented corrupted grape juice to represent the blood of Jesus is wrong. Rom 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

Jesus is literally called "THE Stumbling Stone" and His strength is made perfect in weakness.

scripture says wine that gladdens the heart is a blessing from God ((Psalm 104:15)) and that strong drink they sis a comfort to those who are perishing ((Proverbs 31:6))

Ephesians 5 tells us, do not be drunk on wine, but rather be filled with the Spirit. Proverbs 23 tells us that those who are drunk are beaten and struck but do not notice, and do not feel it. Matthew 5 says that when we ((as when we walk in the Spirit)) are persecuted and reviled for His sake, we are blessed - in like figure, if we hold fast in our faith, as though unharmed. the drunkard loves the drunkenness because of this, as we also ought to be grateful to God for His Salvation.

Isaiah 65:8 describes new wine found in the grapes that have begun to naturally ferment on the vine as having a blessing in them, saying, for the sake of that blessing - which is fermentation - they should not be destroyed, and making a direct analogy to the servants of the Lord, that we too will be spared because of the blessing in us.

Isaiah 1:22 compares watered down, diluted wine to corruption.

i don't see your reasoning here holding water - or, as it were become, holding wine. it seems to me that the symbolism and revelation in the scripture is the opposite.

 

[PS]

Hello UWC, I have some thoughts on these subjects I would like to share. I am a former alcoholic and I am almost allergic to it. I have gone with a brother, in fact my former sponsor in AA, to a communion in his Methodist church. They used real wine, but so little it was not an issue. I even use the salted cooking wine for cooking. One little glass of wine will defile no one. Like another said, wine only mocks if abused.

As far as women being religious leaders, I am like you I feel scripture is plain on the subject. That said, I don't let my belief get in the way if a woman has something for me from God. I respect them very much and actually set them above approach for most things. Those I fellowship with do not allow women ordained to preach.

I have seen some women married to a man that was less spiritually inclined. Sometimes they simply took over the spiritual leadership of their household, but I rarely saw a blessed household as a result. Others spiritually stronger than their husbands got with their man and presented themselves as a union to those around them. She made sure her man kept the lead but made them both better because of her strength. That is a true Proverbs 31 woman.

If I may comment, the situation all those years back then was different to what it is today. Only the boys went to school and only they understood the language that was used in the service. This is why the women gossiped among themselves, and this is why Paul told them to learn from their husbands so they could teach the children, hence the hierarchy that we read about.

 

[PS]

I’ve easily refuted this on other threads.

The KJV has never found to be in error, just so called errors Bible skeptics claim.

The errors are often down to lack of understanding on our part. Words had several meanings the same as today. For example day did not always mean 24 hours and adam meant man, it was not a name. If something is confusing, there could be a simple explanation. Rather than guess, a little research might be good.

 

[PS]

If I may comment, the situation all those years back then was different to what it is today. Only the boys went to school and only they understood the language that was used in the service. This is why the women gossiped among themselves, and this is why Paul told them to learn from their husbands so they could teach the children, hence the hierarchy that we read about.

Sorry, did not mean to post that here. I was thinking about women in the church.

 

[posthuman]

New wine, the juice from the grape, is a blessing.

8 Thus saith the Lord, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all.

why would someone be destroying a plump, juicy, ripe grape?

they wouldn't; they'd be thinking of destroying a grape that's over-ripe. they'd go to pick grapes, get a cluster of them, and then pick out the ones that are bursting and smell a little funky. but these are the ones the scripture says have "a blessing in it" - they've begun to ferment.

 

[Dino246]

The website you gave is not credible in my view. They’re not Bible believers but pretenders using various new versions as so called scripture. Also, their view on Romans 9 is wrong.

You are a KJV-only proponent, so your view of what constitutes "Bible believers" is extremely narrow.

 

[Dino246]

Are you a Bible believer? Do you believe the words of your Bible to be the words of God?

You might as well by a Jehovah's Witness for the way you use loaded questions. Get some integrity.

 

[Ghoti2]

why would someone be destroying a plump, juicy, ripe grape?

they wouldn't; they'd be thinking of destroying a grape that's over-ripe. they'd go to pick grapes, get a cluster of them, and then pick out the ones that are bursting and smell a little funky. but these are the ones the scripture says have "a blessing in it" - they've begun to ferment.

Interesting POV.

 

[Dino246]

I’ve easily refuted this on other threads.

The KJV has never found to be in error, just so called errors Bible skeptics claim.

Fallacy: circular reasoning. Your concept of "refute" is even narrower than your concept of "Bible believer".

 

[John146]

You might as well by a Jehovah's Witness for the way you use loaded questions. Get some integrity.

Only a “loaded” question because it brings out the truth.

 

[kaylagrl]

Correct, if someone ABUSES it.

It is a gift of God that can be abused, but the right use is not abuse.

Had terrible issues with my PC and wasn't able to continue the post. So trying with a borrowed PC. Here are a few verses to make my point.


Pr.- Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.


P.r- 29 Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes?They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine.
Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.
At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.


1 Tim. - Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine


There are other verses as well. As I said, for you this may not be an issue but for someone who has an addiction it can be a huge issue. A person doesn't know they're an alcoholic till they take the first sip. Getting a buzz may not both you but for me, I would be drunk if I had a glass of wine. Be sensitive to others.