If any of yous all missed perfection today, well then, you're not alone. Just keep looking forward to it.
"Sinning Religion".
- Thread starter Aussie52
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Yeah the Bible was pretty clear on both of those points, that you shouldn't beat yourself up over not being perfect, but you also shouldn't just give up and live in sin.
Our Sunday school class is going through a book called "Respectable Sins" by Jerry Bridges.
The point of the book is that all sin, no matter how big or how small, whether committed intentionally or out of ignorance, is against a holy God.
However, the book also says that our only hope is in Christ and He is our Advocate with the Father when we do sin.
Nowhere in Scripture does it say that believers can (or should) stop sinning altogether. If we could do that, we would be "perfect men" as James says (cf. James 3). The only perfect Man is Christ Himself.
The point of the book is that all sin, no matter how big or how small, whether committed intentionally or out of ignorance, is against a holy God.
However, the book also says that our only hope is in Christ and He is our Advocate with the Father when we do sin.
Nowhere in Scripture does it say that believers can (or should) stop sinning altogether. If we could do that, we would be "perfect men" as James says (cf. James 3). The only perfect Man is Christ Himself.
I am not being combative, rather I am being attacked for believing in holiness and I have been defending my conviction and experience. There is a difference. Calling me a jerk is not helping or edifying. Just because we differ gives you no right to attack me so, it's not the way of love. I forgive you.
Peace.
Saying I forgive you is the kind of passive-aggressive crap that people pull out a lot on the bdf.
Are you sure you didn't take a wrong turn? I really think you should be in the bible discussion forum. You sure talk a lot more like those debaters than you talk like us.
don't forget sins of omission meaning when we are supposed to care for the elderly or when our spirit tells us to assist someone & we don't, that's sin of omission!
Sin is also to know to do good and not do it. Also, anything not of faith is Sin.
Do you always stop to help someone on the side of the road? If you know of a need, do you always meet the need?
Romans 6 :1-7,11.
v1.What then shall we say? Should we continue in sin in order that grace may abound?
Paul is answering the false claim that the more we sin, the more grace increases. He rejects the false inference that grace makes continuing sin inconsequential.
v2. By no means! How can we who died to sin go on living in it?
In Paul's mind, continuing in sin is unthinkable. The Christian has 'died' to sin; the relationship has been terminated.
v3. Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
Because of our union with Christ, we have been co-crucified with Him. For Paul, dying with Christ means a change of lordship. The Christian is no longer under the tyranny of sin, he/she has a new master.
v4. Therefore, we have been buried with Him in baptism into death, so that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we might walk in newness of life.
Christ's death is our death also, that we might be 'new creations' walking in newness of life. This has ethical considerations; it means that there is an ethical change in the Christian's life.
v5.If we have been united with Him in a death like His, we will certainly be united with Him in a resurrection like His.
If we died with Him we will be resurrected like Him. This is an 'already but not yet' situation. We can experience His resurrected life now, a new quality of life.
v6.We know that out old self (Man) was crucified with Him so that the body of sin might be destroyed, and we might no longer be enslaved to sin.
All that we were in sinful Adam (old self/man) was crucified with Christ. The sinning person that I was, has been crucified. Our career as sinners has come to an end.
The 'body of sin', that root cause of our sinning, indwelling sin, has been destroyed, made inoperative.
The result of all this is that we as Christians might no longer be slaves to sin and sinning.
v7. For whoever who has died is free from sin.
Our death with Christ has given us freedom from sin, free from its power and its presence in our lives.
v11.So you must all consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
To make this all reality, we must consider or reckon ourselves dead to sin. This is a faith act of appropriation of all that Christ has done for our sanctification.
Reference. Romans. William M Greathouse with George Lyons. Translation NRSV.
v1.What then shall we say? Should we continue in sin in order that grace may abound?
Paul is answering the false claim that the more we sin, the more grace increases. He rejects the false inference that grace makes continuing sin inconsequential.
v2. By no means! How can we who died to sin go on living in it?
In Paul's mind, continuing in sin is unthinkable. The Christian has 'died' to sin; the relationship has been terminated.
v3. Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
Because of our union with Christ, we have been co-crucified with Him. For Paul, dying with Christ means a change of lordship. The Christian is no longer under the tyranny of sin, he/she has a new master.
v4. Therefore, we have been buried with Him in baptism into death, so that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we might walk in newness of life.
Christ's death is our death also, that we might be 'new creations' walking in newness of life. This has ethical considerations; it means that there is an ethical change in the Christian's life.
v5.If we have been united with Him in a death like His, we will certainly be united with Him in a resurrection like His.
If we died with Him we will be resurrected like Him. This is an 'already but not yet' situation. We can experience His resurrected life now, a new quality of life.
v6.We know that out old self (Man) was crucified with Him so that the body of sin might be destroyed, and we might no longer be enslaved to sin.
All that we were in sinful Adam (old self/man) was crucified with Christ. The sinning person that I was, has been crucified. Our career as sinners has come to an end.
The 'body of sin', that root cause of our sinning, indwelling sin, has been destroyed, made inoperative.
The result of all this is that we as Christians might no longer be slaves to sin and sinning.
v7. For whoever who has died is free from sin.
Our death with Christ has given us freedom from sin, free from its power and its presence in our lives.
v11.So you must all consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
To make this all reality, we must consider or reckon ourselves dead to sin. This is a faith act of appropriation of all that Christ has done for our sanctification.
Reference. Romans. William M Greathouse with George Lyons. Translation NRSV.
Jesus when asked which was the greatest commandment, answered:
(Mar 12:30-31 NKJV) AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.' This is the first commandment. And the second, like it, is this: 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' There is no other commandment greater than these."
Can you say that you love God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength for every waking moment of every day? I know I can't. We should seek by God's grace to obey more and more as we go on in our Christian lives, This is what is meant by sanctification. It's to Christians that John writes:
(1Jn 1:8-9 NKJV) If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Are you claiming sinless perfection?
Who is seeking to justify sinfulness? Those who are born of God practice righteousness and not sin. 1 John 3:9 - No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 1 John 3:10 - By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.
Now this does not mean that Christians are sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, 100% of the time, exactly like Jesus Christ. 1 John 1:8 - If we say that we have no sin, (present tense) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, (past tense) we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
Yes, I love the Lord with my whole being and my neighbor as myself. The Lord has cleansed me from ALL sin (1 Jn 1:7) and ALL unrighteousness (1 Jn 1:9). 'For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set me free from the law of sin and death'. Rm 8:2.
1 Jn 1:8 was aimed at not Christians but the Gnostic false teachers that were within the Church.
What I experience is the reality of what Paul wrote of in Romans 6. It is salvation to the uttermost.
John wasn't addressing Gnostics. He said: "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." He includes himself. He doesn't claim sinlessness.
As you wish. It is 3am here in Sydney and I am suffering from insomnia. All I can say David, is if you get hold of a good commentary on First John you will find the context to the book is Gnostics infiltrating John's churches.
With that, I am going back to bed to try and get some sleep. God bless.
I totally agree with you. In Jer. 31:31-34, the reason why God brings in a new law is because the people of Israel have broken the old law. What does it imply? It implies that people having the new law should not be breaking the law. Not breaking the law happens only by the grace of God and not by our efforts. Jam. 4:6 says that God gives grace to the humble. Therefore, our goal is to be humble. How can we be humble? As Mat. 16:24 says, we must deny ourselves, take up our cross and follow Jesus.
Not sinless perfection, that one can reach a place in Christ where we cannot sin. But rather, Christian perfection, that through the love of God reigning in the heart, we need not sin. Please read my commentary of Rom 6 post # 49 for my view on the Christian and sin.
One of the reasons for the present 'sinning religion' is current theological extremes.
An over emphasis on imputed righteousness (justification) and not enough on imparted righteousness (Sanctification).
An extreme view of OSAS that excuses a lax lifestyle of disobedience, all the while believing one will get to heaven irrespective.
A lack of preaching on repentance from sins in presenting the Gospel message. Easy believism and cheap grace.
A lack of preaching on true discipleship, which is not an option but the expression of saving faith.
The rot started in the pulpit and spread to the pews.
An over emphasis on imputed righteousness (justification) and not enough on imparted righteousness (Sanctification).
An extreme view of OSAS that excuses a lax lifestyle of disobedience, all the while believing one will get to heaven irrespective.
A lack of preaching on repentance from sins in presenting the Gospel message. Easy believism and cheap grace.
A lack of preaching on true discipleship, which is not an option but the expression of saving faith.
The rot started in the pulpit and spread to the pews.
Although the false teachings that John was combating may have been associated with Gnosticism, you are correct that John was not addressing Gnostics. John was addressing believers in 1 John 1 and in 1 John 2:1 referred to them as "my little children." John does include himself "we" in 1 John 1:8-10.