So what about the fourth commandment?

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Trail-of-Truth said:
The last day of the week commemorated a finished creation (physicality). The first day of the week commemorates a finished redemption (spirituality). Now the bible says the physical law was only a shadow of the spiritual law- which is found in Christ. (Colossians 2:16,17). What He's saying here is don't let someone who practices things such as the Sabbath day judge you, because these were a shadow of the realities to come. The reality is spirituality- not physicality. For example, if you truly love God and your neighbor, you will not in that moment murder them or steal from them. Therefore, the law can be kept through spiritual means (love) instead of physical lists (the written code).
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that is not what Col 2:17 says. The word "but" is in italics in the KJV. That means it is not there in the original text. it should say, a shadow of things to come for the body of Christ. amazing.
 
disciplemike said:
Romans 7 is one of my favorites. okay, read this, back up to verse 1. Shaul is speaking to people who know the law. If you are not familiar with the Old Testament, you may not get this. Verse 2. He is speaking about one specific law - the law of marriage, or in the KJV, the law of the husband. In the law, if a man divorces his wife, he can't later change his mind and then take her back. This is not allowed. Okay, here is the part most people miss. In the "Old Testament", God divorced the Northern Kingdom of Israel, because of her unfaithfulness. Later, God says He is going to take Israel back. (Pssst. This is what that whole marriage supper of the Lamb is about). But wait, we have a problem. God's own law says that He can't do that. However, as Shaul explains, when the husband dies, the woman is freed from the law of marriage! Yeshua died! Three days later, He arose!!! Now, He can legally take back His bride, Israel. It is really an awesome story of God's love for us! This is what Romans 7:1-6 is talking about.
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i'm sorry but you ain't got that right. Israel was already handed her certificate of divorce, for her adulteries ((see: Jeremiah)). she is free by law, and free to return -- and provoked to jealousy by the grace shown to those who were never baptized into Moses. through us, she will be also shown grace.

we are the ones espoused to a new husband.
our old husband?
the spirit of the age - sin. our nature from the first adam. lusts. wickedness. altogether worthless & vain thinking and desires.

but by faith, we are immersed in Christ. by becoming immersed in Him, we are dead with regard to sin, and sin is dead to us ((chapter 6)).

therefore we are free to marry a new husband -- ourselves having died to the law that once bound us, and to sin which was once our master, and become alive to God through Christ.

Israel will lawfully be able to wed again when she also through the cross of Christ is put to death, and her sin is put to death, like us. the law will be satisfied when she dies and is presented again to Him a virgin, as we are.
 
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disciplemike said:
Again, this is a contradiction. The Messiah loves His Father. He said that He came to do His Father's will. He even teaches us to pray, Thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven.

Now then, do you really believe He nailed His Father's Law to the cross? Here in the south, we call that a big ole lie.
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This is not a contradiction. It is Gods will to take us from the physical into the spiritual. Just because we do it spiritually instead of physically does not mean Gods law is gone, only that it is accomplished in a spiritual way instead of a physical way.
 
BeyondET said:
Fruitless debate about the sabbath no one here can keep it in its true form intended, by the signs in the sky, moon, stars.
you have to restep each day backwards in time to correct it impossible feat. if your employer tells you to be at work each Monday moon day, then you go to work on that day this isn't keeping the natural time frame of days. the sabbath that being will at some point be on a modern calander day of Monday or any other day. if you try to keep the sabbath in its true form and what ever your work day starts according to your employer, the sabbath day going by the signs in the sky will arise on any modern day. each modern day is named after idols of planetary objects that is a issue in its self Saturday is Saturn Friday is Venus and so on. This is another reason why Jesus came everything has been thrown out of time order as its was intended to be kepted.
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that's a really good point. "saturday" isn't the sabbath day. the sabbath is determined by the new moon. you're kidding yourself if you think you're "keeping it" while using the common calendar the world uses today.
 
mocking "SUN-day" because the word is derived from Sol is ignorant too, by the way -- what, you think you're somehow holy because you rest on "Saturn's day" instead?

LOL
 
posthuman said:
i'm sorry but you ain't got that right. Israel was already handed her certificate of divorce, for her adulteries ((see: Jeremiah)). she is free by law, and free to return -- and provoked to jealousy by the grace shown to those who were never baptized into Moses. through us, she will be also shown grace.

we are the ones espoused to a new husband.
our old husband?
the spirit of the age - sin. our nature from the first adam. lusts. wickedness. altogether worthless & vain thinking and desires.

but by faith, we are immersed in Christ. by becoming immersed in Him, we are dead with regard to sin, and sin is dead to us ((chapter 6)).

therefore we are free to marry a new husband -- ourselves having died to the law that once bound us, and to sin which was once our master, and become alive to God through Christ.

Israel will lawfully be able to wed again when she also through the cross of Christ is put to death, and her sin is put to death, like us. the law will be satisfied when she dies and is presented again to Him a virgin, as we are.
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you don't know the law, as mentioned in verse 1, so you can't grasp the next few verses.
 
posthuman said:

that's a really good point. "saturday" isn't the sabbath day. the sabbath is determined by the new moon. you're kidding yourself if you think you're "keeping it" while using the common calendar the world uses today.
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who needs a moon to count to seven?
 
Trail-of-Truth said:
This is not a contradiction. It is Gods will to take us from the physical into the spiritual. Just because we do it spiritually instead of physically does not mean Gods law is gone, only that it is accomplished in a spiritual way instead of a physical way.
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that sounds really churchy, but still not correct.
 
disciplemike said:
that is not what Col 2:17 says. The word "but" is in italics in the KJV. That means it is not there in the original text. it should say, a shadow of things to come for the body of Christ. amazing.
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The word Shadow in Hebrew language means a few things which one are you using above?
 
disciplemike said:
you don't know the law, as mentioned in verse 1, so you can't grasp the next few verses.
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what makes you think i don't know the thing engraved on my heart?

what makes you qualified to make empty accusations without knowledge or justification?

do you know Romans 2:1 ?
i think you need to know this before you can talk about chapter 7. as i said earlier -- it is a very logical book wherein the gospel is laid out in a very specific and purposeful order of points.

chapters 5-6-7 come before 8:1, and before 12:1-2, and 2:1 comes before all this. FIRST you need to know that you can never be justified before Him by law, and that you have no place to judge another man, because you do the same things.

but God justifies -- so who are you to accuse me?
 
posthuman said:

what makes you think i don't know the thing engraved on my heart?

what makes you qualified to make empty accusations without knowledge or justification?

do you know Romans 2:1 ?
i think you need to know this before you can talk about chapter 7. as i said earlier -- it is a very logical book wherein the gospel is laid out in a very specific and purposeful order of points.

chapters 5-6-7 come before 8:1, and before 12:1-2, and 2:1 comes before all this. FIRST you need to know that you can never be justified before Him by law, and that you have no place to judge another man, because you do the same things.

but God justifies -- so who are you to accuse me?
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if you know the law, as Shaul says in verse 1, you know a husband can't divorce his wife and then change his mind and take her back.
 
disciplemike said:
that sounds really churchy, but still not correct.
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It is not just churchy, it is scripture. In the Old Testament God wrote His laws on stone tablets, but in the New Testament God says He will write His laws on our hearts and minds- one is physical, the other spiritual. Just like in the Old Testament David physically killed his tens of thousands, but in the New Testament our battles change from physical to spiritual- just read Ephesians chapter 6. This is not churchy man made doctrine, this is biblical truth. When is the last time you paid for something with an animal instead of money, or took someone out of the city and stoned them to death?
 
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disciplemike said:
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:But the seventh day
[is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates:For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Exodus 20:8-11 (KJV)
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But Lord, Lord! Did we not keep the Sabbath day on Saturday?
 
Trail-of-Truth said:
It is not just churchy, it is scripture. In the Old Testament God wrote His laws on stone tablets, but in the New Testament God says He will write His laws on our hearts and minds- one is physical, the other spiritual. Just like in the Old Testament David physically killed his tens of thousands, but in the New Testament our battles change from physical to spiritual- just read Ephesians chapter 6. This is not churchy man made doctrine, this is biblical truth. When is the last time you paid for something with an animal instead of money, or took someone out of the city and stoned them to death?
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maybe that will work out for you. we shall see.
 
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