Sober in the Spirit excludes what exactley?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I know a lot of the Toronto blessing.
I would say being sober in the Spirit excludes the Toronto blessing.
One video does not make them.
Many videos support they are off the wall with no scriptural backing for their activities.
There are many church organizations out there today that support the Toronto blessing.
They all have problems applying Scripture to their beliefs.
 
AllenW said:
I know a lot of the Toronto blessing.
I would say being sober in the Spirit excludes the Toronto blessing.
One video does not make them.
Many videos support they are off the wall with no scriptural backing for their activities.
There are many church organizations out there today that support the Toronto blessing.
They all have problems applying Scripture to their beliefs.
Click to expand...

That is exactly why John Wimber pulled our support of that movement when it got into things that seemed, to him, to be of the flesh.
 
Willie-T said:
That is exactly why John Wimber pulled our support of that movement when it got into things that seemed, to him, to be of the flesh.
Click to expand...

It seems that all moves of God throughout church history have been ruined by the flesh. Some times it's these weird manifestations that people themselves do and sometimes it's the in-house fighting and bickering, malice and slandering we see being done.

Both are of the flesh. The malice-filled slandering group think the others are in the flesh or ungodly, demonic, or whatever other derogatory names they come up with..etc - and the manifestation people think the malice slanderous group are being in the flesh and are against the manifestation of the Spirit in meetings.

Both are simply trying to grow up in the Lord if we are open to the Spirit of God inside of us..
 
Last edited:
strange, thing about judgement from the flesh, from a biblical point of view, would be, who appointed anyone judge. lol
my point,
dose it show, full understanding or part understanding. without change , how would grace be involved etc
 
There's been some talk of "the fruit" of these manifestations of God's.

What do you guys think "fruit" is? Was Paul falling off his horse and being blind, "fruit?" Np. it was a pretty violent and wild manifestation tnat three years later began to show "fruit."

The reactionist calls something that upsets him occurring at a church, "fruit." But God calls what is walked out in the lives of those receiving those ridiculed manifestations, "fruit."

What do any of you know of what has occurred in the lives of people who have laughed in church? I would suggest.... you know absolutely nothing. However, those of us who have lived with them for years since then have seen what great things many of them have done for God's kingdom.
 
did they go home, in unbelief or believing.

For God So Loved the World
16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.John 3

is fruit, a produced by unbelief or believing.

so the answer would be in the last statement.dose it show, full understanding or part understanding ,if it divides others. the answer to the first statement.(allenw) etc (these manifestations)
 
KJV1611 said:
Where exactly is "getting drunk" in the spirit found in the bible?
Click to expand...

Only some thought those speaking in the tongues of other men were drunk, while the rest were hearing them in their own native tongue.

To some folks that apparently means cows, chicken, dogs and the rest of the animal kingdom.

Tongues of men and angels and the tongues of beast and fowls, why not eh'?
 
Willie-T said:
"Appearing drunk" is right there in the beginning of Acts. (People don't call you drunk for speaking in their language.
Click to expand...
Let's stick with what the bible tells us and not add to it, false doctrines come about that way. The men speaking in other tongues weren't speaking just one language, they were speaking several different languages at different times. So yeah the mockers hearing several different people speaking multiple languages that they didn't understand probably would assume they were drunk.
 
Willie-T said:
"Appearing drunk" is right there in the beginning of Acts. (People don't call you drunk for speaking in their language.
Click to expand...

I don't think they accused them of being drunk because they spoke in their language, it was because they were speaking in so many OTHER languages that they didn't understand....probably sounded like gibberish to them... hence the accusation "they are drunk".. there is NO indication the apostles were barking with laughter, or rolling around on the floor, kicking their heels on the floor like a 4 year old having a tantrum. That behavior smacks of mass-hysteria theatrics, and has no place in the assembly of believers....IMO of course.
 
PilgrimPassingThru said:
Only some thought those speaking in the tongues of other men were drunk, while the rest were hearing them in their own native tongue.

To some folks that apparently means cows, chicken, dogs and the rest of the animal kingdom.

Tongues of men and angels and the tongues of beast and fowls, why not eh'?
Click to expand...

Here's the real story of Acts 2... God prophesied through the mockers when they said those men are full of new wine because new wine is the biblical symbol for the Holy Spirit. Notice that Peter didn't correct them for saying they were full of new wine, he only said that they were not druken as they supposed. Get it??? They were full of new wine (the Holy Spirit).
 
KJV1611 said:
Here's the real story of Acts 2... God prophesied through the mockers when they said those men are full of new wine because new wine is the biblical symbol for the Holy Spirit. Notice that Peter didn't correct them for saying they were full of new wine, he only said that they were not druken as they supposed. Get it??? They were full of new wine (the Holy Spirit).
Click to expand...

Yeah I can see what you are talking about there makes sense, these not being drunk with wine but filled with the Spirit

I get it Tiger
 
PilgrimPassingThru said:
Yeah I can see what you are talking about there makes sense, these not being drunk with wine but filled with the Spirit

I get it Tiger
Click to expand...
New wine as spoken of in the bible is non--alcoholic... it's found in the cluster on the Vine.

Isaiah 65:8 KJV
Thus saith the Lord , As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all.
 
hornetguy said:
I don't think they accused them of being drunk because they spoke in their language, it was because they were speaking in so many OTHER languages that they didn't understand....probably sounded like gibberish to them... hence the accusation "they are drunk".. there is NO indication the apostles were barking with laughter, or rolling around on the floor, kicking their heels on the floor like a 4 year old having a tantrum. That behavior smacks of mass-hysteria theatrics, and has no place in the assembly of believers....IMO of course.
Click to expand...

That just reminds me of

1 Cr 14:23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues,and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

Like how they were all in one accord in place and the Spirit gave them utterance at penticost even, there were some who believed they were drunk, and there (as Paul puts it) say they are all mad.

Paul rightly discerns how they will be perceived (as nutso)
 
KJV1611 said:
New wine as spoken of in the bible is non--alcoholic... it's found in the cluster on the Vine.

Isaiah 65:8 KJV
Thus saith the Lord , As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all.
Click to expand...

Yes I know there is Carnal wine and Spiritual wine.
 
hornetguy said:
I don't think they accused them of being drunk because they spoke in their language, it was because they were speaking in so many OTHER languages that they didn't understand....probably sounded like gibberish to them... hence the accusation "they are drunk".. there is NO indication the apostles were barking with laughter, or rolling around on the floor, kicking their heels on the floor like a 4 year old having a tantrum. That behavior smacks of mass-hysteria theatrics, and has no place in the assembly of believers....IMO of course.
Click to expand...

The Holy spirit had NEVER, EVER manifested that way before, had He? No, He had not. So, by your reasoning, since this was something they had never seen before, or even imagined God doing, they should have been convinced... as you are of the stuff today... that what they saw could not possibly have been from God.

They put their own limits on what they would allow God to do.... just the same as you are putting your own limits on what you will allow God to do.
 
I dont think it was too difficult for God to open the mouth of an ass and cause her to speak as a man but most the time it doesnt take an act of God to make a man speak as an ass.
 
Last edited:
Galatians 6:1 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted.

Galatians 6:1 (NLT)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Dear brothers and sisters, if another believer is overcome by some sin, you who are godly should gently and humbly help that person back onto the right path. And be careful not to fall into the same temptation yourself.

Galatians 6:1 (NRSV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]My friends, if anyone is detected in a transgression, you who have received the Spirit should restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness. Take care that you yourselves are not tempted.

It is the responsibility of the "restorer" to show a spirit of gentleness, soberly & gently leading the wayward one back to restoration. Shepherds lead the flock gently.....they don't "drive" them like a herd of cattle.

Kenneth Hagin was a plagiarist of E.W. Kenyon, the true "father" of the Word of Faith Movement, which, WOF in turn is heresy.

The men in the video are correct..... but, as some have pointed out, their own attitudes weren't exactly kosher. Neither are most in here on both sides of this "dispute".

I don't know what the Toronto Blessing started out as, but the end result is not the work of the Holy Spirit.

When we see the power & manifestations of the Spirit in the NT, we see a plan, a purpose, & a direction that the Holy Spirit was leading the church. These "meetings" definitely don't have a purpose nor direction in them. But..... there is a plan.

This "new" move of God is a ploy of Satan to downplay the real work of the Holy Spirit in the church..... making it of none effect. Even now when Pentecostalism & the charismatic movement(started in the RCC, BTW) is mentioned or written about, they are named together with the emphasis on being spiritually false. This "plan" destroys faith in Pentecostalism & covers up the truth of what it's really about. One only needs to read Johnny Mac's writings on Strange Fire to see this "plan" in action.

Perhaps the one thing we all have in common in this thread is we need to chop up our soap boxes & start a real spiritual fire.:)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back