Some clarity needed.

[Locoponydirtman]

Judas is the archetypal apostate

... never saved

2 Peter 2:20-22 - For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. (Read More...)

1 Timothy 4:1 - Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Hebrews 6:4-8 - For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

2 Chronicles 15:13 - That whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

2 Timothy 3:1-9 - This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

Hebrews 10:26-29 - For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Matthew 24:10 - And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

2 Timothy 4:3 - For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

Luke 8:13 - They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

1 Timothy 4:1-3 - Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

2 Thessalonians 2:3 - Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Hebrews 3:12 - Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

2 Peter 3:17 - Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

Matthew 24:12 - And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

All warn of apostasy and falling away. Carefully read what is written. Things like, partakers of the Holy Spirit, and beware lest you also be lead away.

 

[tourist]

A strong unequivocal NO!

The same here.

 

[Beckie]

ok Becky but my 70 posts so far where to gain wisdom not to be rude. Befor I started to fully truly believe.

Also I'm having patience into trying to understand wisdom of others like yours right now befor answering lol.

Lol the only wisdom I can see you lack right now is my intentions,

When posting if forums we do not have the advantage of reading one another's faces. Words on paper can seem harsh because we do not see the smile, or the light in the posters eyes. A Scripture i fail way to often to recall

Pro_15:1 A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger.

 

[Edify]

ok read what I quoted in post 14 and please have a think about it then answer how a person could promote blasphemy of the holy spirit if they don't believe what is being suggested, and then go on to say you can still forfeit salvation.

Because why, because salvation is the second birth where a persons soul is born of the holy spirit.
The simple logic is how on earth can a person eject there own soul.

Re read it please and come back and answer.


Well my question was not based on pass threads, of eternal security. But the present. Here and now.

The simple ,Question was is John 3:16 100 percent saying a born again Christians soul is born of the Holy spirit.

I think this an important Question to ask, because if this means yes. Then this means you now have citizenship in Heaven.

I tell you that a man can not enter heaven unless hes born of the spirit.

I would have thought the soul after being born of the holy spirit could not expell its own soul from its body..

Unless people are thinking you have two spirits living in you after your born again. I think you would end up becoming double minded if that was the case.

I'm pretty certain that being born of the spirit means the soul has had a new birth.

How can a person eject there own soul from there body,

You think being born of the Spirit forces a change. It doesn't. That's why the Scriptures say we need to be renewed every day.

Being born again is where your soul undergoes a second birth full of the fruits of the spirit.

A Christian doesn't automatically have the fruit of the Spirit.
You think salvation is a "gimme" that requires nothing else. You're wrong & are being a false teacher for pushing your wares on CC

 

[Fundaamental]

You think being born of the Spirit forces a change. It doesn't. That's why the Scriptures say we need to be renewed every day.

A Christian doesn't automatically have the fruit of the Spirit.
You think salvation is a "gimme" that requires nothing else. You're wrong & are being a false teacher for pushing your wares on CC

we shouldn't fall out over this, but you don't renew your mind the holy spirit does.

I don't see anything edifying in this post.
Hopefully that will happen soon for you.

 

[Fundaamental]

When posting if forums we do not have the advantage of reading one another's faces. Words on paper can seem harsh because we do not see the smile, or the light in the posters eyes. A Scripture i fail way to often to recall

Pro_15:1 A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger.

the start of an argument is like the first break in a dam, plug it befor it goes any further.

Or it's better to live on a corner of dripping roof than to share a house with a quarrelling wife. .

Haha.

 

[Fundaamental]

Getting involved in two people's argument is like pulling a mad dog by it's ears. Your just going to get bit.

Don't do it.

 

[Edify]

we shouldn't fall out over this, but you don't renew your mind the holy spirit does.

I don't see anything edifying in this post.
Hopefully that will happen soon for you.

Romans 12:2 And(you) do not be conformed to this world, but(you) be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.
Being saved isn't automatic renewal, that's why we're commanded to do so.

 

[Edify]

the start of an argument is like the first break in a dam, plug it befor it goes any further.

Or it's better to live on a corner of dripping roof than to share a house with a quarrelling wife. .

Haha.

BTW, that's not a renewed spirit showing, jus' sayin'

 

[Fundaamental]

Romans 12:2 And(you) do not be conformed to this world, but(you) be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.
Being saved isn't automatic renewal, that's why we're commanded to do so.

so this proves what exactly. ?.

I'm going to try to understand your reasoning, but are you saying if you don't renew your mind, your in danger of losing your salvation ?.

When you sin you confess, the holy spirit then clears your guilty conscience. That is how your mind is renewed. If you sin and you don't have a guilty conscience there's a good chance your not saved.



When a mature Christian in Christ sins, there punishment will be more harsh on earth. But they won't go to hell. Because a mature Christian would know to confess.

And a truly saved born again Christian would not commit grave sins.

Come to your senses please.

 

[Fundaamental]

I didn't come here to lecture, but I'm no teacher. But what I am guilty of is assuming that some things would be common knowledge of other Christians.

I can't think for other people. But i will assume that when Christians sin.
Christians get convicted and confess.
Or when Christians get tempted to sins they hold there ground and don't sin.
How ever we can get enticed to lose are cool we can say the wrong thing.
I've learned that if a person is guilty of one sin and he doesn't confess. the sin of not confessing is no different to any other sin.
Unrepentant sin of any sin from lying to killing is worthy of hell if your not a Christian. But if your a Christian you would know to confess your sin. As you would get a guilty conscience.

This I assumed would be common knowledge for christians. Which has nothing to do with works or maintaing your salvation.
I think you call it a fruit of the spirit.
When a Christian sins they automatically get a guilty conscience and confess.

 

[Beckie]

I didn't come here to lecture, but I'm no teacher. But what I am guilty of is assuming that some things would be common knowledge of other Christians.

Yes you did !

This is an open forum if you want a privet argument take it to 'conversations'. There is a little envelop kinda up in the right corner. Many things are common knowledge between Christians . Some folks only want to look for the slight differences and make a big deal of it.

 

[LenMcM]

God promises the believer eternal life and offers him/her free salvation. He has said that none can remover the believer from His hand. He has also said that He adopts the believer into his family. However, He has also given us a free will. He has also warned us of the consequences of turning away. No one can take us from Gods hand but that does not stop us from jumping out. We also know that in this life children are adopted by loving people yet some of the adopted choose to run away and disown them and in the same way we can reject the God who has adopted us. True believers are known by the fruits of the Spirit. This has nothing to do with earning salvation by works. We are no longer under the law written on stone. Rather Gods moral laws are written on the heart of the true believer. It is no longer "I must or must not out of fear" but "I will or I wont out of love". Whether we are Gods children or not will always be our free choice. Which do you choose?

 

[Evmur]

2 Peter 2:20-22 - For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. (Read More...)

1 Timothy 4:1 - Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Hebrews 6:4-8 - For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

2 Chronicles 15:13 - That whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

2 Timothy 3:1-9 - This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

Hebrews 10:26-29 - For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Matthew 24:10 - And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

2 Timothy 4:3 - For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

Luke 8:13 - They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

1 Timothy 4:1-3 - Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

2 Thessalonians 2:3 - Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Hebrews 3:12 - Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

2 Peter 3:17 - Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

Matthew 24:12 - And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

All warn of apostasy and falling away. Carefully read what is written. Things like, partakers of the Holy Spirit, and beware lest you also be lead away.

Judas fits all of these scripture, including even tasting the heavenly gift [but not imbibing] but Judas was never saved.

 

[Fundaamental]

Where is the hope in believing you can forfeit your salvation if you want to.

Hope is also a fruit of the spirit because hope goes with will.

Can the holy spirit forfeit its own salvation ?

Willpower of the holy spirit is something every new believer who is born again will receive, where there soul has undergone a second birth, which is where the soul of living person is filled with the fruits of the spirit.

There is no way eject your own living soul out of your body.

This has nothing to do with free will. You simply can not eject your own soul out of your body of which has undergone a second birth.

When you had free will as an unsaved person, you where not confessing your sins, and your free will was taking you right to hell.

When you accepted Jesus as your lord and saviour who died for the sins of the whole world and rose again from the grave your free will became blessed with the fruits of the holy spirit.

And when you truly believed God the son, Jesus could rebirth your soul with a new seed from God God the holy spirit,
and believed that God the father could fill your living soul with the fruits of the God the holy spirit, so that you could be born again, and be forgiven of all your sins. You where saved.


When your mind became clear and free after this, you where baptised by fire from the holy spirit washed clean, and new birth in your soul started to take place.

After this baptism you started to grow with the will power of the holy spirit, then each time you had discerning or lacked in fruits of the spirit or sinned, your conscience became pricked where you then became convicted and sat with the holy spirit who renewed your mind.
And help to grow each and every day.

If none of these things where happening to you then you haven't truly believed and you never received the fruits of the spirit and your soul has yet to undergo a second birth.
If you don't get a guilty conscience when you sin you sin you where not saved.


The guilty conscience you get when you sin is a fruit of the holy spirit. Why because it's related to forgiveness.

The fruits of forgiveness you never truly had when you where not saved because you never be forgiven of your sins until you where born again.

That was the whole point of becoming a Christian.

You became saved and started to overcome anger frustration grievance unbelief, being unkind.
Greed, lying, doubt.

Which is now a better state of free will.

All tho the flesh now needs to be disciplined with these fruits and now you have a better free will you can do that each and every day.
Which is an automatic process for a Christian.

You now have the free will of the holy spirit to stand the test of the time to endure.
And just like the holy spirit can not undo its own salvation neither can you.

Why because the holy spirit wants to save your soul from somebody who wants to take you hell with them.
If you don't have this hope your lost. But can be found.

If for some un be known reason you became lost in your way as a born away Christian God sent you a thorn in your side for punishment like he did with Paul.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

Judas fits all of these scripture, including even tasting the heavenly gift [but not imbibing] but Judas was never saved.

The subject isnt judas. Its apostasy.

 

[JesusFreak1992]

John 3:6

6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Are these two verses in any way related.

If there not related does each new person get given a unique soul from birth.

Other old testament verses talk about people taking about there soul.

I'm assuming flesh does not give birth to a soul either.

__________________
To me, this means, humans give birth to humans. Jesus blesses us with the Holy Spirit (Spirit gives birth to spirit)
Second verse.
God gives us a soul. .
Dont feel comfortable saying they are or aren't related, but we all get a soul from birth, or even before, because God knows our lives and struggles before we ever came to be. this is my understanding.

 

[Fundaamental]

__________________
To me, this means, humans give birth to humans. Jesus blesses us with the Holy Spirit (Spirit gives birth to spirit)
Second verse.
God gives us a soul. .
Dont feel comfortable saying they are or aren't related, but we all get a soul from birth, or even before, because God knows our lives and struggles before we ever came to be. this is my understanding.

1 Peter 1:3 -4

Born Again to a Living Hope
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading,


Gifts of the Holy Spirit
12 Brothers and sisters, I want you to know about the gifts of the Holy Spirit. 2 You know that at one time you were unbelievers. You were somehow drawn away to worship statues of gods that couldn’t even speak. 3 So I want you to know that no one who is speaking with the help of God’s Spirit says, “May Jesus be cursed.” And without the help of the Holy Spirit no one can say, “Jesus is Lord.”

4 There are different kinds of gifts. But they are all given to believers by the same Spirit. 5 There are different ways to serve. But they all come from the same Lord. 6 There are different ways the Spirit works. But the same God is working in all these ways and in all people.

7 The Holy Spirit is given to each of us in a special way. That is for the good of all. 8 To some people the Spirit gives a message of wisdom. To others the same Spirit gives a message of knowledge. 9 To others the same Spirit gives faith. To others that one Spirit gives gifts of healing. 10 To others he gives the power to do miracles. To others he gives the ability to prophesy. To others he gives the ability to tell the spirits apart. To others he gives the ability to speak in different kinds of languages they had not known before. And to still others he gives the ability to explain what was said in those languages. 11 All the gifts are produced by one and the same Spirit. He gives gifts to each person, just as he decides

Ok I hoped you enjoyed this read if you did please say amen.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The first life
Gen 2.7 and God breathed a living Soul in to man.
It's this soul that lives for ever
This is the first life.


The second life
John 3.6 flesh gives birth to flesh, spirit gives birth to spirit.

The soul is born of the holy spirit.
This is also the soul that lives for ever but does not perish.

This is my understanding.

I hope you can see my question now.

God didn’t breath a soul
Into man man became a living soul when God breathed the spirit of life into him.

Your soul is your while being body and spirit United as one is a soul

“And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, ( body)

and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; ( spirit )

and man became a living soul.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We are all living souls like Adam was , but God is making us o to spiritual beings

“And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul;

the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:45‬ ‭

living soul has flesh and blood and a spirit inside

“And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We aren’t being raised up as flesh and blood forever but spiritual beings incorruptible

“it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:44-45, 47, 49-53‬ ‭

were becoming something better than Adam spiritual children of God whos souls were saved and glorified eternal living spirits with spiritual and incorruptable eternal bodies made for an eternal world

 

[Fundaamental]

Amen

16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.