Some of the reasons I pulled away from Dispensationalism.
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How would you know? We see the resurrection of OT saints correlating to the crucifixion in Matthew 27. Are you assuming that Noah wasn't among them? And more than that, we know that Abraham looked forward to Christ's coming and saw it. That could be explained by Abraham being conscious in death or by a prophetic vision he received in life.
How would you know Noah didn't believe in Christ? And what purpose does that assumption serve?
How would you know Noah didn't believe in Christ? And what purpose does that assumption serve?
That statement, sister, is as stark as the one you made in another thread which had me raise the question as to how you could make such a claim. That post is in the thread op here. Wasn't that your stated reason for beginning this thread - because I asked you to answer that former claim and explain why you hold such a stern view of Scofield and Dispensationalism?
How does Scofields' written works attack the body of Christ?
How does Scofields' written works attack the body of Christ?
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Precious friend, Most are fearful of such a looooong word, But, if
you are interested in plenty Of Scriptural study of the matter, this
(Fundamentals Of Dispensationalism) may be helpful: "Things That Differ"
Please be VERY Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified
In The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided (2 Timothy 2:15).
GRACE And Peace...
you are interested in plenty Of Scriptural study of the matter, this
(Fundamentals Of Dispensationalism) may be helpful: "Things That Differ"
Please be VERY Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified
In The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided (2 Timothy 2:15).
GRACE And Peace...
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Isa 53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
Isa 53:2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
Isa 53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
Isa 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
Isa 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Isa 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
Isa 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
Isa 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
Isa 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
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Isa 53:2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
Isa 53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
Isa 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
Isa 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Isa 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
Isa 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
Isa 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
Isa 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
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Your opinion is contrary to scripture.
"Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying. Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am." - John 8:54-58 KJV
"Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying. Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am." - John 8:54-58 KJV
I have company coming and must get ready. This will be a answer from living reading hearing Scofield for the greater part of my life.. his works divide God's people. He speaks his truth over that of the Lord Jesus. The earthly Kingdom is kinda the topic just now... Should have company for a few days Hope to get back with the Scripture reply . 
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Perhaps @John146 would have been better saying that few Old Testament saints understood the prophetic meaning of the cross. In any case, sister there are more than 200 prophecies in the Old Testament that directly prophecy the advent of Christ and even the very means of stretching our His hands to deliver its meaning to mankind. Yet the brother is not mistaken in his general meaning is he? If he were, Israel would not have rejected Christ and crucified Him by the hands of unbelieving men. Isn't that why Jesus made reference to the fulfilling of a prophecy of Isaiah when he explained to the disciples why He had begun to speak in parables? It's a paradox - as with all prophetic speech - it makes for a schism and in the schism those who become the beneficiaries of the fullness of Christ at the end of this age are revealed.
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You mean, kinda like This?:
Rightly Divided – "VERY Brief" Intro!
1) Doctrine of "The Dispensation Of The Law, According To Prophecy!":
"Prophecy/Law" {earthly} Christ And The TWELVE, gospel of the kingdom,
ISRAEL prominent! {past/future}
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:
2) Doctrine Of "The Dispensation Of GRACE, According To The
Revelation Of The MYSTERY!":
"Mystery/GRACE!" {Heavenly!} Gospel Of GRACE, Jew And Gentile "Equal!"
{Current, Today!} for The Body Of CHRIST!
CHRIST, And ONE “apostle TO THE GENTILES, our Pattern to follow!”
(Romans 11:13; 1 Timothy 1:16 KJB!)
--------------------------------
Amen? More "Distinctions" in These TWO Doctrines:
Distinctions In God's Two Different Programs: Prophecy vs Mystery!
GRACE And Peace...
Rightly Divided – "VERY Brief" Intro!
1) Doctrine of "The Dispensation Of The Law, According To Prophecy!":
"Prophecy/Law" {earthly} Christ And The TWELVE, gospel of the kingdom,
ISRAEL prominent! {past/future}
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:
2) Doctrine Of "The Dispensation Of GRACE, According To The
Revelation Of The MYSTERY!":
"Mystery/GRACE!" {Heavenly!} Gospel Of GRACE, Jew And Gentile "Equal!"
{Current, Today!} for The Body Of CHRIST!
CHRIST, And ONE “apostle TO THE GENTILES, our Pattern to follow!”
(Romans 11:13; 1 Timothy 1:16 KJB!)
--------------------------------
Amen? More "Distinctions" in These TWO Doctrines:
Distinctions In God's Two Different Programs: Prophecy vs Mystery!
GRACE And Peace...
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Again, the prophets and even angels desired to understand what the prophets were writing about.
1 Peter 1
7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
1 Peter 1
7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
I am not going to content with you, brother, because what I wrote agreed with what you said. And another has answered that meaning already. Perhaps we should all learn to wait on the Lord and see what He will have us understand that edifies us all - and resist any contention that does not form a prophetic substance equal to the very Gospel itself.
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We were talking about OT saints and now you've switched to talking about NT saints? It doesn't follow that because a few NT saints did not have a clear understanding that all OT saints did not have a clear understanding. Abraham not only saw the coming of Christ but stood beside Christ during the transfiguration.
Your assumption that OT saints had no concept of things to come is speculative and ultimately unjustified.
Your assumption that OT saints had no concept of things to come is speculative and ultimately unjustified.
I simply stated that the d,b,r was hid. Certainly they looked for a Messiah. The following is a clear picture of what Israel was looking including the disciples.
Luke 1
67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,
68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;
72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;
73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,
74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,
75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.
Luke 1
67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,
68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;
72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;
73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,
74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,
75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.
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You can have a multitude of different interpretations that are consistent with scripture. Sometimes, however, there are doctrines which come up that are contrary to scripture and can in no way be compatible. It is possible that people develop an emotional attachment to an incorrect understanding and are reluctant to let go of that which they have erroneously grown attached to.
You've provided a link to a pdf. I appreciate resources like that but it takes time to properly peruse written material. Can you summarise your perspective on dispensation and what you perceive it to mean and imply? There are understandably numerous possible versions of dispensationalism. It is hard to navigate any one person's meaning unless they take the time to explain.
You've provided a link to a pdf. I appreciate resources like that but it takes time to properly peruse written material. Can you summarise your perspective on dispensation and what you perceive it to mean and imply? There are understandably numerous possible versions of dispensationalism. It is hard to navigate any one person's meaning unless they take the time to explain.