Some professing Christains say that God's law is a curse. What? Why?

[peacefulbeliever]

First, I have never preached that it is necessary to be "under the law" and it is true that the whole of the Old Testament is more than the law God gave to Israel through Moses. Do people who claim the salvation of Christ Jesus have to reject certain parts of God's word in order to be saved because they are unable understand the Spiritual truths that the complete Pentateuch endorses?

It's just that every thread you present is concerning the law. There is NO part of God's word that is rejected . . . we are just NO longer under the law for salvation. ALL God's word is there for instruction . . . that written in the OT and gospels were written for our learning, enabling us to learn through their examples and have hope. I cannot keep the law for salvation . . . but I can apply God's instructions for my life given throughout the OT in my walk.

I have found that by reading and searching for the spiritual principles and precepts of the Pentateuch that I become more and more appreciative of the wonder and glory of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, for He created all things including the law. Therefore, I am adamant that we should never even think about installing our changes into God's everlasting word. It is "sin" to take away, or add anything to God's word, for His Word created all things. If these principles are teaching others that they must be "under the law" then we would have to say that the law was given without love, making it only a form of condemnation, and nothing else.

Do you not think that we all look at the prophecy of scripture and see how it applied to the coming of our Lord? That we do not reflect upon the significance of those prophecies in relationship to our Lord? ALL I am saying is that we are NOT under the law for salvation -

God set a perfect plan concerning the law. If we throw it away and preach that it is void, then we are teaching without the law, and the end result is lawlessness. Then, because the law is for the lawless, we render ourselves to be "under the law" of condemnation. I'm not condemned just because I think it's important for believers. That puts me in a category of not being "under the law" because I'm not condemned by it because like King David said;

"O how love I thy law! it is my meditation all the day." Psalm 199:97

I find it impossible to love something that is consistently condemning me. It's no wonder that some professing Christians reject the law because it is always condemning to them. Woe to the ministers/shepherds that don't feed the flock!

[Psalm 119:97) I can also say - O how I love thy instruction! I do endeavor to meditate upon it all the day. We preach that salvation no longer comes from obedience to the law . . . salvation comes through belief in our Lord Jesus Christ. [John 3:16; Romans 10:9,10] Why did Jesus Christ come? So that we would still have to struggle with the burden of obedience to the law for salvation?
For as many as are under the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is everyone that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, the just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but the man that doeth them shall live in them. Christ hath redeemed us from he curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is everyone that hangeth on a tree. [Gal. 3:10-13]

Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the "seed" should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. . . Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. [Gal. 3:19,21,22]

For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect by reason of the glory that excelleth. For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. [2 Cor. 3:9-11]

 

[just-me]

#1. OT was an eye for an eye. NT is turn the other cheek.
#2. OT, God blessed Solomon with great wealth, NT, Jesus says it is hard for richman to enter the kingdom of God.
#3. OT, Levite priests and animal sacrifices was required. NT, Jesus is our Heavenly Highpriest and Passover Lamb.
#4. OT, not allowed to eat unclean animals. NT says you can eat unclean animals.
#5. OT, you can be stoned for adultery. NT, Jesus does not stone a woman who committed adultery.

You make some good points. These 5 things that you mentioned still have spiritual application in the New Testament that haven't changed from the Old Testament with the exception of physical to the Spiritual. The Spiritual applications have always been there from the beginning of its issuing. The eye for an eye thing seems to be a stickler for many people. The turning of the other cheek has everything to do with Hebrew tradition in the New Testament, related to the endorsing God's equity in the Old Testament. It hasn't changed in Spirit and in truth. We worship God in Spirit and in truth.

It is amazing that Jesus is defined as an animal. It's the lamb thing ya know. That certainly doesn't make Jesus an animal, but the relationship is still there with great Spiritual meaning.

The sin is still stoned and killed but we fight against the principalities of darkness, not against other people. Salvation is separation.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Maybe this will help.

Deu 28:1 And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command thee this day, that the LORD thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth:

Never in the history of physical Israel did they do all of God's commandments... never. So unless God is a liar, physical Israel was never set on high above all nations of the earth. Spiritual Israel however did do all of God's commandments because they sought it by faith through the finished work of Jesus Christ... the only person that kept the law perfectly in his flesh. The nation that is set above all nations is spiritual Israel... folks of all time that have been saved by grace. These people inherit the promises and are not under the curse of the law.

The blessings and the curses still exist. Those under the flesh get the curses and those in the spirit get the blessings... always has been that way and always will be that way.

I can't find any term in scripture regarding "spiritual Israel" . . . What exactly is "spiritual Israel"?

I see these three groups of people: Jew, Gentile, church of God [neither Jew nor Gentile] [1 Cor. 10:32]

 

[Elin]

You do know when someone comes to Christ they are grafted into Israel?

You do know that Israel is not the olive tree, but branches on the tree as are the Gentiles?

All are grafted into Christ, the tree, whose roots are the holy patriarchs.

 

[Elin]

Well, I think the confusion has arised because there are two camps of belief in Pauline Christianity.

Pauline Christianity is the Christianity associated with the beliefs and doctrines espoused by Paul the Apostle through his writings. Most of Christianity relies heavily on these teachings and considers them to be amplifications and explanations of the teachings of Jesus. Others perceive in Paul's writings teachings that are different from the original teachings of Jesus documented in the canonical gospels, early Acts and the rest of the New Testament, such as the Epistle of James

Wikipedia:.
Pauline Christianity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pauline Christianity is a term applied to what some perceive as the religious teaching unique to Paul’s writings and distinct from the gospel of Jesus. That is, Jesus taught one thing, and Paul taught something completely different. Those who believe in a separate Pauline Christianity believe that the Christianity of today has little to do with Jesus’ teachings; rather, it is the product of Paul’s corruption of those teachings.

OK. . .for the sake of clarity, instead of Pauline Christianity,
I'm going with Full-Bible Christianity, understood in the light of
the words spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers.

Gotquestions:

What is Pauline Christianity?

As for Mid Acts Dispensationalism: Well, you either are of a different church that has a completely different belief concerning how most regard that name or you are unaware of what your church really teaches.

Here is what it says from a Mid Acts Dispensationalism Site:

A Different gospel

Based upon the necessary conditions for righteousness, we can see that Paul not only taught a different message but a different gospel than the disciples. Whereas, the disciples taught faith in the Christ as the Son of God and commandment-keeping as their standard for righteousness,...


A Mid Acts Dispensational Website:
Did Paul Preach A Different Gospel?

 

[Elin]

My husband and I read through Romans 1-2 last night and it totally goes into the topic of this thread. Most of the time one chapter carries through to the next, and brings more clarification to what is being said...(any way, thought I'd share some of the points that we saw as we read.)

In Romans 1, Paul starts off speaking of the grace and apsotleship, "for odedience" to the faith among all nations, for His (Jesus) name.

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Romans 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Romans 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Romans 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Romans 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Romans 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Romans 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Romans 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Romans 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

All of those things that Paul mentions are part of the law delivered to Moses. The chapter ends with Paul showing that those are the things that bring judgment. They were handed over to uncleanness because they "did not like to retain God in their knowledge." They were given over to a reprobate mind. (It's only in Christ that we overcome, and being out of line with His will and His instruction brought a separation.) As it did naturally in Israel each time they walked contrary to God.


There certainly couldn't be any blessings at all in the result of their being handed over to those things.

The next Chapter follows through.

Paul starts the chapter with judging others and doing the same things.

Romans 2:3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

This is part of examining ourselves by that measuring line. Paul goes on to say this:

Romans 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

Repentance itself always involves being out of line with God's will "sin is the transgression of the law." He forbears us and is long-suffering and His goodness and mercy leads us to repentance.

Then Paul goes back to the principle from the previous chapter. "They did not like to retain God in their knowledge."

Romans 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Romans 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

Romans 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: Romans 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Paul includes both the Jews and the Gentiles in this, and says, "God is no respecter of persons."

Romans 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

In the chapter before this, Paul said that they would perish, he said that they were deserving of this, "not knowing the righteous judgment of God."

Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Romans 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another,
Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Being out of line with God places a person under the law and we are to judge ourselves by those things, if we judge others and are doing the same things and not judging ourselves, it is hypocrisy.

Romans 2:17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
Romans 2:18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law; Romans 2:19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
Romans 2:20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law. Romans 2:21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
Romans 2:24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
Romans 2:25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.

That also makes sense in regards to the previous chapter, where he spoke of those who were given over to uncleanness, and then Paul lists the things that showed their uncleanness, the things that bring judgment (all of which are contained in the law.)

Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

It's all part of the maturing process in continuing and seeking His righteousness, "line upon line, precept upon precept, and going from faith to faith."

It's definitely not about rejecting any part of God's word.

Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Good stuff. . .

Keeping in mind that Paul, as an introduction to salvation in Jesus Christ, is showing in Ro 1-3 the righteousness of God and the unrighteousness of all mankind.

In Ro 1 is the righteousness of God.
In Ro 2 he the unrighteousness of the Jews,
which includes a presentation of the three principles of God's judgment,
and in Ro 3 is the unrighteousness of the Gentiles,

concluding with all mankind locked up in sin, their helpless estate.

 

[Elin]

I would like to see scripture that says that the law "is" a curse.

Straw man. . .Full-Bible Christians do not believe "the law is a curse."

They believe what Paul states, "the curse of the law."

 

[just-me]

“Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment..And this will we do, if God permit.” church members should “judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment,” “for all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.” (Hebrews 6:1-3, John 7:24, and 1 John 2:16)

Let's take a good look at the environment of the world for a moment, and think abut the corruption we see right in front of us on the news, and in some cases right smack dab in our own neighborhood.

Doctrines that say the law is for the lawless is correct doctrine. Yet if the church denies the instructions given to Israel in God's law, they render themselves as having no influence of how to define lawlessness, and how to influence proper policing. After all, a disciple is one who is self-disciplined, and is also related to what a policeman is. “For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same.” (Romans 3:3)

This lack of understanding is transfered to the lawmakers, and then they make laws according to their carnal understanding. Now I'm not talking about the doctrine of salvation here. I'm attempting to enlighten believers about what brings the curse of the law to the people we live around. Now if we are to love our enemies, the law says; “thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbor, and not suffer sin upon him.” (Leviticus 19:17b)

So if the church preaches that the law is for the lawless, yet doesn't teach the law to the church, then the church renders itself useless to minister to the lawless and the lawmakers in God's way, rather than man's. Curses will follow, and the Bible proves that. Even though we are not of this world, according to the ministry of Christ, we are to be a substantial influence in righteousness. Yes, we are to minister to the lost, but if the law is for the lost lawless people, how are we to properly minister if we tell everyone that it has been abolished? How are we supposed to contribute to peace like in Baltimore, Ferguson, New York, Chicago, and on and on? Are we just waiting to be raptured out with an apathetic mindset? The love of God is defined first in the law God gave to Israel. The love never changed with Christ.

Granted, the law by itself is not a curse, and the works thereof doesn't justify us unto salvation, but to say that it is an adversary of salvation and Christians must purposely reject it, will definitely bring a curse to the nation the same way it came to Israel. As is confirmed in scripture, God doesn't change, and Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever. If we don't learn from the mistakes in history, (including Biblical history) we are bound to repeat them.

 

[Elin]

First, I have never preached that it is necessary to be "under the law" and it is true that the whole of the Old Testament is more than the law God gave to Israel through Moses. Do people who claim the salvation of Christ Jesus have to reject certain parts of God's word in order to be saved because they are unable understand the Spiritual truths that the complete Pentateuch endorses?
I have found that by reading and searching for the spiritual principles and precepts of the Pentateuch that I become more and more appreciative of the wonder and glory of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, for He created all things including the law. Therefore, I am adamant that we should never even think about installing our changes into God's everlasting word. It is "sin" to take away, or add anything to God's word, for His Word created all things. If these principles are teaching others that they must be "under the law" then we would have to say that the law was given without love, making it only a form of condemnation, and nothing else.

God set a perfect plan concerning the law.

Yes, and in the light of the NT, we learn that his perfect plan concerning the Mosaic law was to reveal his own perfect righteousness, and the unrighteousness of all mankind according to it.

Having accomplished its purpose in his plan, God continued his perfect plan in setting aside the law, for a new covenant where righteousness (justification) is through faith in Jesus Christ, and sanctification (righteousness) is through the Holy Spirit by the obedience of saving faith.

If we throw it away and preach that it is void, then we are teaching without the law, and the end result is lawlessness. Then, because the law is for the lawless, we render ourselves to be "under the law" of condemnation. I'm not condemned just because I think it's important for believers. That puts me in a category of not being "under the law" because I'm not condemned by it because like King David said;

"O how love I thy law! it is my meditation all the day." Psalm 199:97

I find it impossible to love something that is consistently condemning me. It's no wonder that
some professing Christians reject the law because it is always condemning to them.

Christians "reject" the law as the means of justification (righteousness), which is salvation.
Christians do not reject the obedience of saving faith through the Holy Spirit as the means of sanctification (righteousness).

There is advantage in confusion. . .

Woe to the ministers/shepherds that don't feed the flock!

Or subtlely divert the flock. . . .

 

[just-me]

Straw man. . .Full-Bible Christians do not believe "the law is a curse."

They believe what Paul states, "the curse of the law."

I have never believed or said that the "law is a curse." I said others that I've heard, who profess Christianity, describe it as such, because it is so detrimental and adversarial against the salvation of Jesus Christ. Even if it would have never been said, the negative rhetoric concerning the law might as well be labeled as such. I think the straw man went to see the wizard. Are you still searching for him?

 

[crossnote]

My husband and I read through Romans 1-2 last night and it totally goes into the topic of this thread. Most of the time one chapter carries through to the next, and brings more clarification to what is being said...(any way, thought I'd share some of the points that we saw as we read.)

In Romans 1, Paul starts off speaking of the grace and apsotleship, "for odedience" to the faith among all nations, for His (Jesus) name.

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Romans 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Romans 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Romans 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Romans 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Romans 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Romans 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Romans 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Romans 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

All of those things that Paul mentions are part of the law delivered to Moses. The chapter ends with Paul showing that those are the things that bring judgment. They were handed over to uncleanness because they "did not like to retain God in their knowledge." They were given over to a reprobate mind. (It's only in Christ that we overcome, and being out of line with His will and His instruction brought a separation.) As it did naturally in Israel each time they walked contrary to God.


There certainly couldn't be any blessings at all in the result of their being handed over to those things.

The next Chapter follows through.

Paul starts the chapter with judging others and doing the same things.

Romans 2:3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

This is part of examining ourselves by that measuring line. Paul goes on to say this:

Romans 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

Repentance itself always involves being out of line with God's will "sin is the transgression of the law." He forbears us and is long-suffering and His goodness and mercy leads us to repentance.

Then Paul goes back to the principle from the previous chapter. "They did not like to retain God in their knowledge."

Romans 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Romans 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

Romans 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: Romans 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Paul includes both the Jews and the Gentiles in this, and says, "God is no respecter of persons."

Romans 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

In the chapter before this, Paul said that they would perish, he said that they were deserving of this, "not knowing the righteous judgment of God."

Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Romans 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another,
Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Being out of line with God places a person under the law and we are to judge ourselves by those things, if we judge others and are doing the same things and not judging ourselves, it is hypocrisy.

Romans 2:17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
Romans 2:18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law; Romans 2:19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
Romans 2:20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law. Romans 2:21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
Romans 2:24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
Romans 2:25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.

That also makes sense in regards to the previous chapter, where he spoke of those who were given over to uncleanness, and then Paul lists the things that showed their uncleanness, the things that bring judgment (all of which are contained in the law.)

Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

It's all part of the maturing process in continuing and seeking His righteousness, "line upon line, precept upon precept, and going from faith to faith."

It's definitely not about rejecting any part of God's word.

Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Yes all the moral righteousness Paul mentions is covered in the Mosaic Law but not all the non moral regulations is covered by Paul.

 

[crossnote]

Dear Cross Note:

I just seen your recent post on Mid Acts. It appears you do not believe that there were two gospels. Is that correct?

However it appears that you believe like they do in regards to Paul’s view on Justification. Is that true?

We are justified by grace alone through faith alone on account of Christ alone.

 

[Elin]

Maybe this will help.

Deu 28:1 And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command thee this day, that the LORD thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth:

Never in the history of physical Israel did they do all of God's commandments... never. So unless God is a liar, physical Israel was never set on high above all nations of the earth.
Spiritual Israel however did do all of God's commandments because they
sought it by faith through the finished work of Jesus Christ... the only person
that kept the law perfectly in his flesh.

This was known and believed in the OT?

The nation that is set above all nations is spiritual Israel... folks of all time that have been saved by grace. These people inherit the promises and are not under the curse of the law.

The blessings and the curses still exist.

God has abolished, in the flesh of Christ, the law with it commandments and regulations (Eph 2:15).

Those under the flesh get the curses and those in the spirit get the blessings... always has been that way and always will be that way.

Spiritual blessing now is only in Christ, and the curse (condemnation) is for all who die in unbelief, outside of Christ.

 

[Jason0047]

You make some good points. These 5 things that you mentioned still have spiritual application in the New Testament that haven't changed from the Old Testament with the exception of physical to the Spiritual. The Spiritual applications have always been there from the beginning of its issuing. The eye for an eye thing seems to be a stickler for many people. The turning of the other cheek has everything to do with Hebrew tradition in the New Testament, related to the endorsing God's equity in the Old Testament. It hasn't changed in Spirit and in truth. We worship God in Spirit and in truth.

It is amazing that Jesus is defined as an animal. It's the lamb thing ya know. That certainly doesn't make Jesus an animal, but the relationship is still there with great Spiritual meaning.

The sin is still stoned and killed but we fight against the principalities of darkness, not against other people. Salvation is separation.

Personally, I have no problem with God's justice in the Old Testament. Many atheists seek to attack God and make their biggest case against Him on their wrong understanding of the Old Testament. They do not seek to see how the Lord's judgments are loving in good (even though they might appear to be harsh at first glance). We have to realize that:

#1. Sin is always man's fault and any Judgments we see are the result of our bad behavior.
#2. Correction brings us to our knees. When we see God's Judgments or when we are chastened, we draw closer to God and His goodness.​

I see both the Old and the New as a balanced scale. On one side God clearly shows us that He will not tolerate sin and evil and that He will judge it and put an end to it. On the other side in the New, we see God show His great love and mercy in a way that is easy for all to see. Seeing the love in the Old is a little more challenging for those who do not strive to look at the Word a little deeper by the Spirit. For example: Some atheists have made the claim that the global flood is immoral because it killed innocent lives such as babies and animals. They think it was overly harsh that God destroyed everyone. But we have to realize that God is good and then work are way backwards from that truth. This means, that the Scriptures are true in Genesis 6 when they say that their thoughts were evil continually. We also have to realize that children are of the Kingdom of God. So any innocent children that die, they go to be with the Lord with Him in Heaven. Another thing they do not realize is that this life is not the end. We continue on. For the spirit returns to God unto who gave it. See, to the atheist, death is a tragedy because all that awaits them in their mind is blackness or nothingness. But if one returns to God it is not a tragedy if they are in service to Him. It is victory and a joyous occasion to be with the Lord after this body is gone. For the sufferings of this present time shall not compare to the glory that shall be revealed in us.

 

[crossnote]

Today we are under the Law of Christ which is a fulfillment of the Law of Moses (Sort of like how an apple seed that is planted becomes an apple tree). The Law of Moses was never a curse or bad for believers under the Old Covenant (before Christ died upon the cross). Yes, there was a curse or "condemnation" if the Old Testament saint did not obey the old law. Yet, it is no different if a saint today disobeys the laws or commands in the New Covenant, though.

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." (Hebrews 10:26-31).

No Law of God was or is ever bad or a curse. All His Laws are holy, just, and good. Yes, certain of His laws of the Old Testament are no longer binding for us as New Testament believers today. But they still have great spiritual significance and meaning to us that points us to Jesus Christ. So every word of God is good. The Law of Moses was a school master to bring us unto Christ. A school master is a teacher and teachers are good (and not bad). However, some believers get tripped up and still think the Law of Moses is still binding and we need to obey that, too. However, Galatians 3:25 says, "But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster." Meaning, we are no longer under the Law of Moses. We are under the Law of Christ (that has certain Laws or Commands) in the New Testament.

The curse only comes when somebody tries to go back and obey all the Old Laws when they no longer are binding anymore. For many of the New Covenant Commands conflict with the Old Covenant Commands.

#1. OT was an eye for an eye. NT is turn the other cheek.
#2. OT, God blessed Solomon with great wealth, NT, Jesus says it is hard for richman to enter the kingdom of God.
#3. OT, Levite priests and animal sacrifices was required. NT, Jesus is our Heavenly Highpriest and Passover Lamb.
#4. OT, not allowed to eat unclean animals. NT says you can eat unclean animals.
#5. OT, you can be stoned for adultery. NT, Jesus does not stone a woman who committed adultery.

Now, it's not that we are justified by any law keeping in and of itself. No, no. Most certainly not. When a person repents of their sins and accepts Jesus Christ as their Savior, the Lord will then do the "good work" within them (when they surrender or yield their life to Christ according to His Word). For if we sin, we do not get our hearts right with God by doing a bunch of good works, etc. We get our hearts right with God by God's grace by confessing our sin and forsaking it (By His power and Spirit).

I hope this helps.
And may God bless you all.

Sincerely,

~ Jason.


...

As Paul shows in Galatians the curse of the law happens when one tries to secure their own righteousness thru ANY part of the law e.g. circumcision since the law is a whole, breaking it at any point breaks the whole.

 

[Jason0047]

We are justified by grace alone through faith alone on account of Christ alone.

But how do you define "faith"? Is it a demon belief type faith that is dead that James talks about that is without fruit? Or is it the faith that Hebrews 11 talks about that ties the word "faith" with various actions? Granted, we are not saved by our works. We are saved by God's grace and mercy, the renewing of the Holy Ghost (Titus 3:5). Then God does the "good work" within the believer once they have been renewed by the Spirit (See Ezekiel 36:26-27). So a believer cannot claim they are doing the work and saving themselvies.

 

[just-me]

As Paul shows in Galatians the curse of the law happens when one tries to secure their own righteousness thru ANY part of the law e.g. circumcision since the law is a whole, breaking it at any point breaks the whole.

Just curious. How does circumcision apply to the law that God gave to Moses? Is it of the heart, or of the flesh according to your undertanding?
"Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers;) and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man." John 7:22

"Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked. And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live." Deuteronomy 10:16 and 30:6

 

[crossnote]

I'm just wondering, when the 'law keepers' here are facing excruciating torture will they be looking to their law keeping for comfort or to Jesus Christ and His perfect righteousness?

 

[crossnote]

Just curious. How does circumcision apply to the law that God gave to Moses? Is it of the heart, or of the flesh according to your undertanding?
"Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers;) and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man." John 7:22

"Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked. And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live." Deuteronomy 10:16 and 30:6

I'm applying it to those who point to the law of Moses and say we must keep it.

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

 

[Elin]

Now if a person truly accepts Christ as their personal Savior, the Holy Spirit will teach a person to esteem all of God's word without being condemned. Even the law will be understood as a blessing from God. Now
if a person is a quasi-believer, they will always be threatened by the curse that is defined in the law.
That is being "under the law."

Where is it found in Scripture that a quasi-believer will always be threatened by the curse of the law, and is "under the law"?

That's a human notion, not a Biblical one.

Now why do you always jump to the conclusion that I am "under the law" because I find no condemnation in it? I believe its spiritual truth that never will change, for man shall live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.
If we reject even a smidgen of God's word, that smidgen will condemn us, and
that rejection places us "under the law."

Do you just make it up as you go?

Where is it found in Scripture that to "reject even a smidgen of God's word" places one "under the law"?
More human notions, not Bbiblical ones.

I would suggest to you that you think about your position concerning the law. Just because
we like to throw it away by saying it's void, or abolished,

I'm thinkin' you could use a hard look at the word of God in Eph 2:15 where Christ has "abolished in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations."

And I'm thinkin' you need to think about your own position concerning the law.
Because per your own rule:

"rejection of even a smidgen of God's word (as in Eph 2:15). . .will condemn one, and that
rejection places one 'under the law' ",

you yourself are "under the law."

It is inescapable. Love the Word of God, or
be cursed because of rejection.

"Physician, heal thyself."