Some thoughts on the Sabbath...

[memberofthebride]

Do you not read the whole Bible?

Acts 10:44-46 "While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all who heard his message. All the circumcised believers who had accompanied Peter were astounded that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and exalting God."

No laying on of hands there.

Gideon300, Here is what I have learned over the years.

At this point, gentiles were still unclean, Christ had to demonstrate, prove to the Apostles that He will now accept gentiles into the Body.

The apostle would have never baptized a gentile, or even touched one. Even Christ called them "dogs"

Speaking in "Known languages" was used by Christ to prove the Holy Spirit was now in a person.
Cornelius spoke in "languages" before baptism to prove to Peter he was to baptize Cornelius and his family.

Speaking in languages was only used at the beginning to prove to the apostles and disciples Gentile have been made clean by Christ.. remember the sheet from heaven with the unclean animals -- Christ was showing Peter I have cleansed
the Gentiles.

Do not forget Hebrews 6
1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands,

I was explaining this to a "christian" women and it repelled her "I would never do that",
I may be wrong on this but it seems few do more then some form of baptism

 

[Gideon300]

Gideon300, Here is what I have learned over the years.

At this point, gentiles were still unclean, Christ had to demonstrate, prove to the Apostles that He will now accept gentiles into the Body.

The apostle would have never baptized a gentile, or even touched one. Even Christ called them "dogs"

Speaking in "Known languages" was used by Christ to prove the Holy Spirit was now in a person.
Cornelius spoke in "languages" before baptism to prove to Peter he was to baptize Cornelius and his family.

Speaking in languages was only used at the beginning to prove to the apostles and disciples Gentile have been made clean by Christ.. remember the sheet from heaven with the unclean animals -- Christ was showing Peter I have cleansed
the Gentiles.

Do not forget Hebrews 6
1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands,

I was explaining this to a "christian" women and it repelled her "I would never do that",
I may be wrong on this but it seems few do more then some form of baptism

You can put any spin on it that you like. Countless people have received the Holy Spirit without the laying on of hands, including myself.

 

[BBerean]

Inquisitor, not arguing, just informing.
the Old is only "ready to disappear"
If the Old Covenant was not still in effect there could not be The Time of the End.

This is Lev 26, the Old Covenant, from verse 27 to 39 is the 7 years time of the end, which is divided into two periods of 3 1/2 years.
The New Covenant was never written in the Bible, word for word, like the Old was.
The Old is a physical covenant and what is coming is physical punishment for physical sin for a physical people.
The New is a spiritual covenant for a spiritual people

As long as there are flesh and blood humans on earth the Old will be in effect.

27And if ye will not for all this hearken unto me, but walk contrary unto me; 28Then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins. 29And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat. 30And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you. 31And I will make your cities waste, and bring your sanctuaries unto desolation, and I will not smell the savour of your sweet odours. 32And I will bring the land into desolation: and your enemies which dwell therein shall be astonished at it. 33And I will scatter you among the heathen, and will draw out a sword after you: and your land shall be desolate, and your cities waste.

This is also "The time of Jacob's Trouble"

Yes the Old must be fulfilled! All prophecy will be fulfilled. Until then it cannot disappear! Good point . Lawlessness needs no laws to be lawless doing what ever is right in their own eyes . Nothing new under the sun, just more of it .

 

[DavidLamb]

Jesus Christ is God in the Old Testament, not the Father.
Before the Moses went up the mountain to be given the Covenant, a man picked up sticks and was slain by God, that was Christ
Christ came to reveal the Father, unknown until Christ came.
Moses and the 70 ate with and saw GOD and Christ said no one has seen or knows the Father but HIm
Moses spoke with Christ face to face
The Rock that was 40 years with them, is Jesus Christ.
The Father will not come to earth until the earth is burnt clean with fire.
There is another scripture which I can not remember where it is, I will look

I know that Christ appeared several times in the Old Testament before His incarnation in what are known as theophanies, or (better, I think) Christophanies, as your example of the Rock in the wilderness shows, but are you really saying that God the Father is not mentioned in the Old Testament? I know that He is only called Father 15 times in the OT, but that surely doesn't mean that every time "God" is mentioned it must refer to Christ.

 

[Mem]

The Sabbath was intended to help people, not burden them.

They couldn't even keep the commandment to rest. And they still can't. If that doesn't teach them that they need Jesus, I don't know what will.

 

[memberofthebride]

You can put any spin on it that you like. Countless people have received the Holy Spirit without the laying on of hands, including myself.

it is not my spin -- I am just posting scriptures that show it is one of the major doctrines of Christ that the Holy Spirit is given by the laying on of hands.

This my spin -- the "laying" must be done by a minister of Christ in whom is the spirit. it is by the hands, the spirit is transmitted, from one to another.

Remember when John baptized Christ, the dove coming down was, in my opinion, the Father Laying His hands of Christ.
It was the Father's Spirit that came to Christ.

I believe there is only ONE Church/congregation of God the Father, not tens of thousands
God is not confusion, HE is Order.
What is more confusing then tens of thousands of diverse churches each with their own beliefs.
Can this be if they all have the same spirit?

 

[Mem]

I know that Christ appeared several times in the Old Testament before His incarnation in what are known as theophanies, or (better, I think) Christophanies, as your example of the Rock in the wilderness shows, but are you really saying that God the Father is not mentioned in the Old Testament? I know that He is only called Father 15 times in the OT, but that surely doesn't mean that every time "God" is mentioned it must refer to Christ.

I don't think that God was ever known as the Father until the revelation of the Son. Although God always Is, Was, and Will Be, this can only be discerned? by the Holy Spirit (Rom 8:14-16). I would think that the OT saints would qualify as sons of God because they were 'led by the Spirit of God," even if they were not indwelt with the Holy Spirit (Heb 11:13; Heb 11:39-40).

 

[mailmandan]

This sentence, I do not agree with.
The sabbath was made at creation.
It was made for mankind.

Show me the word "sabbath" in Genesis 2:3 and also show me in scripture where sabbath keeping was "practiced from Adam to Moses." The word "sabbath" first appears in Exodus 16:23. Again, although God's rest on the seventh day (Genesis 2:3) did foreshadow a future sabbath law, there is no Biblical record of the sabbath being kept before the children of Israel left the land of Egypt. Sabbath keeping was a "sign" between God and the Israelites and was commanded to the Israelites to keep and not all mankind. (Exodus 20:2-11; 31:12-17; 35:1-3; Leviticus 23:24; Deuteronomy 5:12-15; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; Nehemiah 10:31 Ezekiel 20:10-12) So, sabbath keeping with all its rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel that is not binding on Christians under the new covenant. (Colossians 2:16-17)

Just because God gave the sabbath to Israel does not mean the sabbath does not apply to all mankind.

So, you admit that God gave the sabbath to Israel. That's a start. Now show me where all mankind was keeping the sabbath.

God gave the Law.... "thou shalt not covet" to Israel. But that does not mean the same law does not apply to all of mankind.

That command is reiterated under the new covenant (Romans 13:0-10; Ephesians 5:3) but not the sabbath. (Colossians 2:16-17) Under the new covenant, Christians find their sabbatismos rest in Jesus Christ (Hebrews 4:9) in contrast with keeping the weekly sabbath day under the law.

God said REMEMBER the sabbath day..
He did not say, start keeping it from today. The reason God gave it when they left Egypt was because they were slaves for many years and had lost many of their teachings.

Who did God tell to REMEMBER the sabbath day? The ISRAELITES. (Exodus 20:2, 8; Deuteronomy 5:15)

 

[memberofthebride]

it is not my spin -- I am just posting scriptures that show it is one of the major doctrines of Christ that the Holy Spirit is given by the laying on of hands.

This my spin -- the "laying" must be done by a minister of Christ in whom is the spirit. it is by the hands, the spirit is transmitted, from one to another.

Remember when John baptized Christ, the dove coming down was, in my opinion, the Father Laying His hands of Christ.
It was the Father's Spirit that came to Christ.

I believe there is only ONE Church/congregation of God the Father, not tens of thousands
God is not confusion, HE is Order.
What is more confusing then tens of thousands of diverse churches each with their own beliefs.
Can this be if they all have the same spirit?

Something to think about

When the 120 came together on Pentecost, Christ was in the third heaven and John the Baptist was dead, there was no one on earth in which was the Holy Spirit. not Even Mary.

Who laid hands on the 120??
the fingers of fire was the Father laying HIS hands on the 120
and It had to be the Father, as the spirit is His seed begetting, impregnating us as His sons.
Who impregnated Mary? the Father which makes Him Christ's Father.
The Truth of God is order and logical.
The physical is a temporary copy of the spiritual.

 

[mailmandan]

yes, that is what is taught in the word.
18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,

The laying on of hands in Acts 8:16-17 before they received the Holy Spirit is the exception and is not the rule/standard for all. The Jews were hostile towards the Samaritans and the laying on of hands by the apostles was for the purpose of authenticating God's purpose and promoting church unity. Where is the laying on of hands mentioned with the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8:35-39? or on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2:37-41? or with Cornelius and his household in Acts 10:43-47? Where do you attend church?

 

[memberofthebride]

I don't think that God was ever known as the Father until the revelation of the Son. Although God always Is, Was, and Will Be, this can only be discerned? by the Holy Spirit (Rom 8:14-16). I would think that the OT saints would qualify as sons of God because they were 'led by the Spirit of God," even if they were not indwelt with the Holy Spirit (Heb 11:13; Heb 11:39-40).

I agree, but the Prophets, Joseph, David and others did have the Holy Spirit in them. and most by the laying on of hands.
I have read, not counted my self, over 100 had the Holy Spirit and possibly at total of 4 or 500. no one else until Christ.

 

[TMS]

Resting on Saturday is not a moral law, it is a civil law.

Google said....
Moral law consists of universal, unchanging principles of right and wrong, often based on divine command or natural law, like the Ten Commandments (e.g., "do not murder"). Civil law is temporary, man-made legislation designed by governments to manage daily society, maintain order, and enforce justice (e.g., traffic rules, property disputes).

Moral laws are unchanging principles and the fact that God sanctified the Sabbath has not changed..

Prove where God has ever said not to keep the sabbath holy.

Of course, even so, the Law concerning resting on a Saturday is a civil law binding on Israel, not on the Gentiles. Here in the United States, no one suffers the death penalty for working on a Saturday.

The penalty for murder in most countries is not the death penalty. And murder is a moral law.

A moral law is a law that God set in place and applies to all people. Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

Murder is a moral law and so all 10 of the commandments

The sabbath was made holy at creation and made for man to obey from that day.
The weekly Sabbath was made in Eden before sin entered the world, whereas ceremonial sabbaths and the passover were related to types and shadows of redemption.

To observe the Sabbath is to render to God what is rightfully His; to do otherwise is described as robbing God of His reserved rest-day.
Therefore, the obligation to keep the seventh-day Sabbath remains a perpetual sign of allegiance to the Creator.

Who are we to change what God set in place and sanctified?

 

[TMS]

I've been born again for 55 years. I've never observed the Sabbath or the Levitical laws. I could not be more blessed.

How do you know.? You might be surprised at what blessings The Lord has in store for you.

Eph 3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,

Phi 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

Don't be so quick to think you are fully blessed. Or understand the fullness of God's blessing..

Eph 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

Unreachable riches, peace that passeth all understanding, and able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think.

And you claim that you could not be more blessed... ??

 

[memberofthebride]

The laying on of hands in Acts 8:16-17 before they received the Holy Spirit is the exception and is not the rule/standard for all. The Jews were hostile towards the Samaritans and the laying on of hands by the apostles was for the purpose of authenticating God's purpose and promoting church unity. Where is the laying on of hands mentioned with the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8:35-39? or on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2:37-41? or with Cornelius and his household in Acts 10:43-47? Where do you attend church?

There is no conformation the eunuch was given the Holy Spirit, Baptized, but maybe not converted? don't know.

On The day of Pentecost, there was not one in the world in which was the Holy Spirit, Christ in heaven and John the Baptist dead.

GWT 3 Tongues that looked like fire appeared to them. The tongues arranged themselves so that one came to rest on each believer.

My belief, this was the Father that rested HIS hands on each believer. Fact: they were given the Holy Spirit, Who else could this have been. For us to be sons of the Father it had to be the Father's hands.

Peter would have never baptized or laid hands on a gentile, they were still unclean. Christ had shown Peter that He was making gentiles clean with the animals in the sheet, Peter did not understand until Cornelius spoke in a KNOWN language.
Proving to Peter gentiles are now accepted into the Body of Christ.

I am in the same body/church since 1969.
As I am certain we are in the time of the end and persecution is coming soon on the body of Christ, I am reluctant to reveal the "corporate" name.

the doctrine, which you have seen coming from me, is not at all the same as all the other churches.

It is my "guess" based on scripture, christian's will persecute those in the Body, just like the Jews persecuted Christians.

1 These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.
2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

The early Christians were put out of the synagogues and churches and persecuted to the death.
After 300 AD the Body of Christ was very small in numbers and hunted.
I believe Rome is not of God. change that to "KNOW"!

 

[Cameron143]

I was baptized in 1969 at 29 years old

You didn't answer the question I asked. Getting baptized doesn't make one a Christian. When did what is spoken of in Ezekiel 36:26-27 occur?

 

[GWH]

You didn't answer the question I asked. Getting baptized doesn't make one a Christian. When did what is spoken of in Ezekiel 36:26-27 occur?

It does if it is done by the HS (1Cor. 12:13, Rom. 5:5, 8:9).

 

[memberofthebride]

You didn't answer the question I asked. Getting baptized doesn't make one a Christian. When did what is spoken of in Ezekiel 36:26-27 occur?

26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.

At the laying on of hands, what is written above, begin to happen to me, slowly on a scale of 1 to 10,
I considered myself to be a - 5, that amount of change does not happen over night. the Book of Acts also attest to that fact.

it was through years of trials and testing that God's Divine Nature began to suppress my carnal human nature.
I, thankfully, am not the man if was 60 years ago, a new heart/nature and new Spirit in not instance.

We must grow in knowledge, wisdom, faith, love. We must grow and produce the attributes/fruits of the Divine Nature.

If you are asking if I felt a sudden change at the moment hands were on me --- no. I was not made perfect all at once and am still not close to perfect.

Without the Father's Spirit in me I would not be here today, the process of salvation is over a life time which I can attest to.

If you have spent any time in Matthew 25 and the 10 virgins, that should explain the reality of the process of salvation.
The Father's Spirit is fruitful in some, some gain 100, some 50 and some 0. there is not one of us like another our Father made us all different.

I believe Matthew 25, 50% of those I fellowship with every Sabbath will leave.

if this does not answer -- I need a clearer question.

 

[memberofthebride]

26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.

At the laying on of hands, what is written above, begin to happen to me, slowly on a scale of 1 to 10,
I considered myself to be a - 5, that amount of change does not happen over night. the Book of Acts also attest to that fact.

it was through years of trials and testing that God's Divine Nature began to suppress my carnal human nature.
I, thankfully, am not the man if was 60 years ago, a new heart/nature and new Spirit in not instance.

We must grow in knowledge, wisdom, faith, love. We must grow and produce the attributes/fruits of the Divine Nature.

If you are asking if I felt a sudden change at the moment hands were on me --- no. I was not made perfect all at once and am still not close to perfect.

Without the Father's Spirit in me I would not be here today, the process of salvation is over a life time which I can attest to.

If you have spent any time in Matthew 25 and the 10 virgins, that should explain the reality of the process of salvation.
The Father's Spirit is fruitful in some, some gain 100, some 50 and some 0. there is not one of us like another our Father made us all different.

I believe Matthew 25, 50% of those I fellowship with every Sabbath will leave.

if this does not answer -- I need a clearer question.

another thought -- over the last 60 years a guess would be over 50% of those in the Body -- left, went back in to the world.

 

[mailmandan]

I am in the same body/church since 1969. I am reluctant to reveal the "corporate" name.

Why are you reluctant to reveal the "corporate" name?

 

[memberofthebride]

another thought -- over the last 60 years a guess would be over 50% of those in the Body -- left, went back in to the world.

I reread your question--- baptism does not give any the Holy Spirit,
John the Baptist's baptism, gave no one the Spirit ever except Christ.