Some thoughts on the Sabbath...

[TMS]

What is imputed or imparted righteousness in your view?

Imputed = Justification, by grace God sees us as if we have never sinned, like a legal declaration. Making us righteous before God. Only by faith in the blood of the lamb.

Imparted = sanctification, by grace Jesus gives us the victory over sin. A new heart and life by the power of God in us.
This is by the grace of God also and it saves us from being a slave to sin.

Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

 

[Genez]

What is imputed or imparted righteousness in your view?

Imputed? God 'puts' His official legal declaration upon you and signs it.
Imputed is not something we experience in our walk, but we are legally declared to be righteous by God.

Imputed righteousness is God's justice declaring righteousness he has secured for you.
It is possible because of God's justice has secured what God knows you shall be without fail.

Because God can not fail? God sees what causes your imputed righteousness to be as good as done.
Example? God's omniscience already sees you in your resurrection body. He already sees you perfect and in Heaven.

As far as imparted righteousness?
That is when what God has done to secure this righteousness is made to be a part of our experience now.
Imparted = made to be part of you.

Example?
Imparted righteousness is walking in the Spirit! It is a part of our experience in Christ.

Imparted righteousness is seen in Galatians 5:18.

"But if you⁺ are led by the Spirit, you⁺ are not under the law."​

​

grace and peace....

 

[frederickdoc]

Imputed? God 'puts' His official legal declaration upon you and signs it.
Imputed is not something we experience in our walk, but we are legally declared to be righteous by God.

Imputed righteousness is God's justice declaring righteousness he has secured for you.
It is possible because of God's justice has secured what God knows you shall be without fail.

Because God can not fail? God sees what causes your imputed righteousness to be as good as done.
Example? God's omniscience already sees you in your resurrection body. He already sees you perfect and in Heaven.

As far as imparted righteousness?
That is when what God has done to secure this righteousness is made to be a part of our experience now.
Imparted = made to be part of you.

Example?
Imparted righteousness is walking in the Spirit! It is a part of our experience in Christ.

Imparted righteousness is seen in Galatians 5:18.

"But if you⁺ are led by the Spirit, you⁺ are not under the law."​

​

grace and peace....

when you Parah (bear fruit) by the Ruach (the Holy Spirit), you are completely in the perfect will of God and His law
It Moves You From "Rules" to "Relationship"
As noted earlier, Godly knowledge is hands-on and built on Aman (leaning on Him).

• The old way: Trying to obey the law by reading a page of rules and forcing yourself to comply. This is Dry and doesn't produce life.
• The Ruach way: God promised in the prophets that He would put His Ruach inside us and write His laws directly on our hearts (Ezekiel 36:26-27).

When you Parah Ruach, you are living out God's will because His otwn Spirit is the SAP flowing through your Branches. The fruit just happens naturally because of who you are Connected to. You are Free From the Fear of Missing the Mark
When you walk in the Spirit, you are in His perfect will because you are driven by Love, not by the fear of punishment. Romans 8:4 says that the righteous requirement of the law is fully met in us when we "walk Not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."
You are exactly where God wants you to be when you let the Ruach guide your actions, because the Spirit will never lead a branch to produce bad Parah

 

[frederickdoc]

when you Parah (bear fruit) by the Ruach (the Holy Spirit), you are completely in the perfect will of God and His law
It Moves You From "Rules" to "Relationship"
As noted earlier, Godly knowledge is hands-on and built on Aman (leaning on Him).

• The old way: Trying to obey the law by reading a page of rules and forcing yourself to comply. This is Dry and doesn't produce life.
• The Ruach way: God promised in the prophets that He would put His Ruach inside us and write His laws directly on our hearts (Ezekiel 36:26-27).

When you Parah Ruach, you are living out God's will because His otwn Spirit is the SAP flowing through your Branches. The fruit just happens naturally because of who you are Connected to. You are Free From the Fear of Missing the Mark
When you walk in the Spirit, you are in His perfect will because you are driven by Love, not by the fear of punishment. Romans 8:4 says that the righteous requirement of the law is fully met in us when we "walk Not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."
You are exactly where God wants you to be when you let the Ruach guide your actions, because the Spirit will never lead a branch to produce bad Parah

• The Wrong Order: Try to keep the commandments → Hope the Spirit is pleased → Force the fruit. (This fails every time).
• The Godly Order: Rest in God is love → Let the Ruach fill your heart → The fruit (Parah) grows → The commandments are naturally fulfilled!

When you Parah Ruach, you will find yourself keeping the Heart of the Commandments (loving God and loving your neighbor) without even tracking it, because the Holy Spirit is the one doing the work through your hands.

 

[Roger316]

Imputed = Justification, by grace God sees us as if we have never sinned, like a legal declaration. Making us righteous before God. Only by faith in the blood of the lamb.

Imparted = sanctification, by grace Jesus gives us the victory over sin. A new heart and life by the power of God in us.
This is by the grace of God also and it saves us from being a slave to sin.

Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

You mean God lies to himself? Even though we are sinners to our core, God pretends that we aren't?

 

[Genez]

You mean God lies to himself? Even though we are sinners to our core, God pretends that we aren't?

The question you are not asking?
Why are we sinners?

Where does the sin nature reside?
In our soul?
Or, in our body?

Broad brush theology always fails to make us think the truth.

For example?

Take your soul out of your body.
Are you then a sinner to your "core?"

And, look here!

​

In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. ​

Therefore, do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. Romans 6:11-12​

Before salvation, we were totally effected by our sin nature.
But, as for our soul?
Our soul may have been hating what our flesh was desiring for you to do.

Total depravity is a misnomer and causes the suppression of how things are.
We were totally EFFECTED by our depravity.
But God saves the soul... Not the flesh.

If we were totally depraved God could not save our soul.

In Christ.

 

[Roger316]

The question you are not asking?
Why are we sinners?

Where does the sin nature reside?
In our soul?
Or, in our body?

Broad brush theology always fails to make us think the truth.

For example?

Take your soul out of your body.
Are you then a sinner to your "core?"

And, look here!

​

In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. ​

Therefore, do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. Romans 6:11-12​

Before salvation, we were totally effected by our sin nature.
But, as for our soul?
Our soul may have been hating what our flesh was desiring for you to do.

Total depravity is a misnomer and causes the suppression of how things are.
We were totally EFFECTED by our depravity.
But God saves the soul... Not the flesh.

If we were totally depraved God could not save our soul.

In Christ.

The Reformers came up with the mistaken notion of "Imputed Righteousness" because they couldn't wrap their mind around the scandal of Grace. They reasoned that God couldn't hang around with sinners, so he had to invent a "work-around" in which he decided to pretend that we are no longer sinners, and it's as if we didn't sin.

None of that is true, of course. Jesus didn't have any problem hanging out with sinners. He ate with them regularly. God sees us as we are, sinners in need of grace, and he is more than willing to be gracious to us.

We are sinners, honesty and integrity demand that we admit it. God will not forgive those who refuse to admit it, but he for gives and blesses those who have a contrite heart.

Concerning the depraved mind, in my current study in Romans I am learning that when Paul says, "God gave them over to a depraved mind" he is speaking historically. From his point of view, God has no longer abandoned humanity to a depraved mind. First, he sent the Jewish people prophets and teachers, to bring them out of the darkness. Second, he sent the Greeks philosophers like Socrates to bring the Greeks out of the Darkness, and finally, and most importantly, he sent his son Jesus to be the light of the world to bring us all out of darkness.

Paul didn't mean to say, as the Reformers thought, that humanity is inherently deprived of mind. We can all think rationally, but some of us start with the wrong suppositions or let our pleasures and desires rule us instead of rational thought. In Romans 6, Paul argues that we have a choice: we can serve sin or serve righteousness. And Paul choose to serve righteousness. But in a quiet moment of reflection, he came to realize that he was a sinner at the core of his being and in order to serve righteousness he had to be at war with his members. All of us are the same way. We want to serve righteousness and we do serve righteousness but while we do, we must resist our sinful desires.

 

[Genez]

The Reformers came up with the mistaken notion of "Imputed Righteousness" because they couldn't wrap their mind around the scandal of Grace. They reasoned that God couldn't hang around with sinners, so he had to invent a "work-around" in which he decided to pretend that we are no longer sinners, and it's as if we didn't sin.

None of that is true, of course. Jesus didn't have any problem hanging out with sinners. He ate with them regularly. God sees us as we are, sinners in need of grace, and he is more than willing to be gracious to us.

We are sinners, honesty and integrity demand that we admit it. God will not forgive those who refuse to admit it, but he for gives and blesses those who have a contrite heart.

Concerning the depraved mind, in my current study in Romans I am learning that when Paul says, "God gave them over to a depraved mind" he is speaking historically. From his point of view, God has no longer abandoned humanity to a depraved mind. First, he sent the Jewish people prophets and teachers, to bring them out of the darkness. Second, he sent the Greeks philosophers like Socrates to bring the Greeks out of the Darkness, and finally, and most importantly, he sent his son Jesus to be the light of the world to bring us all out of darkness.

Paul didn't mean to say, as the Reformers thought, that humanity is inherently deprived of mind. We can all think rationally, but some of us start with the wrong suppositions or let our pleasures and desires rule us instead of rational thought. In Romans 6, Paul argues that we have a choice: we can serve sin or serve righteousness. And Paul choose to serve righteousness. But in a quiet moment of reflection, he came to realize that he was a sinner at the core of his being and in order to serve righteousness he had to be at war with his members. All of us are the same way. We want to serve righteousness and we do serve righteousness but while we do, we must resist our sinful desires.

We do get imputed righteousness.

God sees us not as we are, but as He has made us to become, before we become it experientially.

 

[Roger316]

We do get imputed righteousness.

God sees us not as we are, but as He has made us to become, before we become it experientially.

Again, I ask. Why would God pretend?

 

[Genez]

Again, I ask. Why would God pretend?

God is not pretending.
His omniscience sees the future as if it is now in the present.

Was God pretending that Jesus was the Lamb slain before the foundations of the world?
It is the reason God saved OT believers.

 

[frederickdoc]

God is not pretending.
His omniscience sees the future as if it is now in the present.

Was God pretending that Jesus was the Lamb slain before the foundations of the world?
It is the reason God saved OT believers.

I would be looking at Jesus wanting Fruit .The tree bear no fruit jesus cursed the tree it died instantly inside ! The Proof was i think the next Day .tree didnt know to be in season to yeild fruit at all times .
im required to yeild Fruit on demand, thats my Will! Joy peace God is Love he gave me one word You read it as grow ,myself i know it as death to lifelive from heaven Alone! Read other posts if you want More

 

[Genez]

Again, I ask. Why would God pretend?

God is not pretending.
He counts us righteous because He knows that we will be perfect in our resurrection body forever.

And, at present? As far as sin?
He sees us as co-crucified with Christ. Gal 2:20

We must learn to see reality from God's perspective.

When the justice of God says something is so about the believer?
God can not fail to bring it too pass.

......

 

[TMS]

You mean God lies to himself? Even though we are sinners to our core, God pretends that we aren't?

No
God is Just
God accounts the righteousness of Jesus to you and me.

Like a court case....
You are guilty and fined 1m dollars.

Jesus steps up and pays the fine in full.

Your debts are paid in full by Jesus.

We are free from the result of sin..

Imputed righteousness.

 

[TMS]

You mean God lies to himself? Even though we are sinners to our core, God pretends that we aren't?

It seem like you believe in "original sin"

We are sinful by nature.
But we are only guilty when we choose to sin.

If all our sins are paid for and covered by the righteousness of Christ. We are guilt free at that point. We are free from sin at that time.
To forgive means ....
1. to cease to blame or hold resentment against (someone or something)
2. to grant pardon for (a mistake, wrongdoing, etc)
3. (transitive) to free or pardon (someone) from penalty
4. (transitive) to free from the obligation of (a debt, payment, etc).

To free from a debt. Because Jesus paid it in full.

If you are truly forgiven, you can know that you are guiltless before God and know you have Justification at that Time.

But if you sin again.... you need forgiveness again.

 

[Roger316]

God is not pretending.
His omniscience sees the future as if it is now in the present.

Was God pretending that Jesus was the Lamb slain before the foundations of the world?
It is the reason God saved OT believers.

The concept is not foreknowledge. We are talking about the theological idea of imputed righteousness.

 

[Roger316]

God is not pretending.
He counts us righteous because He knows that we will be perfect in our resurrection body forever.

And, at present? As far as sin?
He sees us as co-crucified with Christ. Gal 2:20

We must learn to see reality from God's perspective.

When the justice of God says something is so about the believer?
God can not fail to bring it too pass.

......

Many Christians misunderstand the Reformed doctrine of imputation because they assume what is imputed is moral righteousness. But imputation is a forensic act — a legal declaration, not a transfer of moral quality. If God merely looked ahead in time and saw me as righteous, He wouldn’t be imputing righteousness to me; I would simply be righteous. Imputation names God’s verdict, not my virtue. What is imputed is not moral performance but justifiedness — the legal status of being declared right with God through Christ.

 

[Roger316]

No
God is Just
God accounts the righteousness of Jesus to you and me.

That is incorrect. God accounts justification to you and me. There is a difference.

Like a court case....
You are guilty and fined 1m dollars.

Jesus steps up and pays the fine in full.

Your debts are paid in full by Jesus.

We are free from the result of sin..

Imputed righteousness.

Jesus didn't pay our dept to justice. God forgives our sins, he doesn't require payment.

 

[Roger316]

It seem like you believe in "original sin"

No. The doctrine of Original Sin is not Biblical. According to the Bible, a man is responsible for his own sins.

We are sinful by nature.
But we are only guilty when we choose to sin.

Not only are we guilty for what we do; we are guilty for who we are.

If all our sins are paid for and covered by the righteousness of Christ. We are guilt free at that point.

Our sins were not paid for. They are forgiven. We won't be free of sin until our glorification.

We are free from sin at that time.
To forgive means ....
1. to cease to blame or hold resentment against (someone or something)
2. to grant pardon for (a mistake, wrongdoing, etc)
3. (transitive) to free or pardon (someone) from penalty
4. (transitive) to free from the obligation of (a debt, payment, etc).

To free from a debt. Because Jesus paid it in full.

Either Jesus paid our debt or he forgives our sins. It can't be both. And the scriptures teach that our sins are forgiven, not paid for.

If you are truly forgiven, you can know that you are guiltless before God and know you have Justification at that Time.

But if you sin again.... you need forgiveness again.

Many Christians fall into that trap and some pay a heavy price.

 

[Genez]

Many Christians misunderstand the Reformed doctrine of imputation because they assume what is imputed is moral righteousness. But imputation is a forensic act — a legal declaration, not a transfer of moral quality. If God merely looked ahead in time and saw me as righteous, He wouldn’t be imputing righteousness to me; I would simply be righteous. Imputation names God’s verdict, not my virtue. What is imputed is not moral performance but justifiedness — the legal status of being declared right with God through Christ.

Well said...

 

[TMS]

Not only are we guilty for what we do; we are guilty for who we are.

This is a trap

Guilty for being born

Was Mary guilty of sin for having a sinful nature?

How are we guilty for having a nature inherent from our parents?

Sin is a choice.