Like it or not, God chose Adam to represent humanity. His failure became ours. We are all born guilty before God.
Some thoughts on the Sabbath...
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But the law requires payment and God does not change the laws of the universe for us.
Sin = death.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
How are we free from the debt of sin. Death is what is required from us. We need to pay for the debt. Justice must be served.
God gave His son as a gift.
The life, death and resurrection of Jesus, is so that we can have full forgiveness and the grace to overcome sin.
What does Jesus say? Well, a certain man owed another man five hundred pence, and when he had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave him. He took the debt on himself.
While forgiveness is a free gift to the repentant sinner, it is not the same as the act of payment; rather, the payment made by Christ at Calvary is what enables a just God to grant pardon without setting aside the authority of His law.
I agree that paying the debt and forgiveness are not the same. His death makes our salvation possible but not necessary. Because he died for us God can forgive us without infringing on his infinite justice. It must appear evident to every one that if we are pardoned with, out a substitute, without any infliction of the penalty of our past sins, then justice is robbed of its due; for sin ought to be punished.
IF God freely forgives us but our debt is unpaid then God is unjust. But if only the debt is paid and no forgiveness then God isn't merciful.
He is both and they come together at the cross.
Yes, I agree. We all have a choice. But the decisions we make every day prove who we are. If I wasn't a sinner, I wouldn't sin. It's as simple as that.
Not according to the New Testament. God forgives our sins.
Yes, that is correct and very true. However, payment for our sins was not the gift. Eternal life is the free gift of God.
No. According to Paul, our debt to justice was canceled, not paid. Our sins were forgiven. Forgiveness is the release of an offense, the cancellation of moral debt, and the restoration of relationship. God chooses not to hold our sin against us.
I know it is hard to let go of some ideas but it isn't a matter of Justice. It's a matter of grace and mercy.
God is the offended. He is the one who can forgive.
That isn't true. What harm or injury come from forgiving us of our sins?
No, the cross was not intended to pay our debt to Justice. The Bible teaches us that the cross is a propitiation. Propitiation speaks to the God‑ward dimension of the Cross. It is not a mechanical transfer of punishment or a divine transaction in which Christ “pays” for sins like settling a debt. Propitiation is the Father’s acceptance of the Son’s voluntary obedience unto death—an obedience offered freely, lovingly, and without compulsion. In that obedient self‑offering, the Son embodies perfect righteousness, perfect submission, and perfect alignment with the Father’s will. Because the Father is pleased with the Son’s obedience, His wrath toward sin is mollified, not by a payment, but by the beauty and perfection of the Son’s self‑giving act. Propitiation is the Father’s delight in the Son’s obedience, and the turning away of wrath that flows from that delight.
Because the Father is pleased with the Son’s obedience, He grants the Son authority over salvation itself. This is the pattern of John 17 and Philippians 2: the Son humbles Himself, becomes obedient unto death, and therefore the Father exalts Him and gives Him the right to give life to whom He wills. Salvation is not a commodity purchased at the Cross; it is a royal prerogative granted to the Son because of His faithful obedience. The Cross is the moment where the Son’s offering is accepted, wrath is quieted, and the Father entrusts Him with the authority to save. Propitiation, then, is not about satisfying a transactional justice system—it is about the Father’s pleasure in the Son and the Son’s consequent right to bring sinners into the life He shares with the Father.
You have a sinful nature inherited from your father, and 6000 years of sinning.
A sinful nature results in an inclination to sin and internal struggles to lust for the flesh.
Sin is a choice. To sin is to choose to follow the lust. EG. When someone lies about their income to gain money. Or commits adultery and lies to their partner.
The fleshly desires are not a sin.
They may desire sin but it is not a sin until you choose to obey it.
We have two choices ....
Gal 5:16-17
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: .....
Without the help of God we would constantly follow the flesh. But God wants us to follow the Spirit.
1Jn 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
We Choose who we will follow. Self and our flesh. Or God and the Spirit.
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
No condemnation when you don't walk after the flesh but walk after the Spirit.
Rom 8:5-6
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
I'm seeing two options....
To be tempted by the flesh or by the something appealing to your selfish flesh is not a sin.
Sin is the choice to follow the sinful nature.
I agree with what you said up to this point. I just wrote a script for my next video. In that video we explore Romans 2:25-29. (It isn't published yet, so I can't direct you to it.) The New Testament often draws our attention to the fact that we have both an inner life, who we are on the inside, and our outer life: how we dress, what we do, who we pick as friends, what religion we practice etc.
In that context, Paul contrasts the **outward sign** and the **inward reality** of covenant life. Circumcision was the external badge of belonging to God’s people, but Paul presses deeper: the true covenant life is measured not at the level of the skin but at the level of the heart. He is slowly turning the camera from the outside of a person to the inside of a person—what he looks like externally versus what he actually is internally. In Paul’s argument, outward circumcision without inward obedience is a mismatch; inward obedience without outward circumcision raises a different kind of question. Either way, Paul is teaching his readers to evaluate covenant identity not by what is visible on the surface but by the moral and spiritual reality underneath.
Bottom line: What are we underneath?
What you say here is so vitally important. It's a lesson that all of us, all of our fellow believers, should learn. As Paul will argue in Romans 6, we have a choice whether to serve righteousness or to serve unrighteousness. And as you rightfully point out, the Holy Spirit will help guide us along the way.
Paul will argue that those of us who are serving righteousness, will be at war with our members. What we do on the outside is live with honesty, integrity, contrition, love the truth, love our brothers and sisters, help the needy, support widows and orphans and things such as this. But inside we know that our desires are like a tiger and we will fight the tiger until Glorification Day.
Interpretation....
Death has past on all because all have sinned. We have all choosen sin, because of the inherited sinful nature.
Are we guilty of the sin Adam choose?
Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Death reigned = sin reigned.
Because of Adam sin became part of our nature and leads us to sin.
The sinful nature became part of us so that we find it hard not to sin and therefore. We become sinners by choice.
By grace Jesus gives us righteousness....
Does that mean we are righteous by birth. Or everyone is righteous?
Righteousness is given as a gift to those that choose to follow Jesus.
Death and sin is also a choice.
Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
We have all sinned so that means we have all taken the same path a Adam...
Except Christ..
So all of us have inherited the death of Adam by choosing to sin.
If I never once choose to sin would I be guilty of sin? No
But we have all fallen short and we all need salvation.
Being born with a sinful nature is not a sin. Choosing to follow the sinful nature is a sin.
Except Christ..
So all of us have inherited the death of Adam by choosing to sin.
If I never once choose to sin would I be guilty of sin? No
But we have all fallen short and we all need salvation.
Being born with a sinful nature is not a sin. Choosing to follow the sinful nature is a sin.
I agree
The Jewish nation were so focused on the external that they missed the real meaning, and this was being pushed on the Gentiles so Paul needed to address it.
The passage establishes that both Adam and Christ represented humanity, or humanity in part.
Read more carefully. Through the offense of one, many be dead. This attributes death to Adam. Note, death isn't attributed to any individual's sin, but to the offense of Adam.
Notice also, the judgment was by one to condemnation. Again, condemnation was not due to individual's sin, but by one...Adam.
Notice further, as by the offense of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation. Again, condemnation is not said to be the result of individual's sin, but by the offense of one.
Until Jesus comes this sinful nature will remain.. but we can (by God's power) not strengthen it but reduce its power.
Like a muscle it can be strengthened or weakened.
Habits can become part of our charactor if we persevere.
Taking the Lord's name in vain.... if practiced enough becomes a bad habit.
But if you resist the temptation it will lose its hold and the words will stop coming.
The sinful nature, often referred to as the flesh or the carnal mind, is naturally in enmity against God and cannot be subject to His law. Reducing its effects requires a daily, inward crucifixion of sin.
Die to the flesh and it becomes weaker and weaker.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Philippians 3:12-14
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. 13 Brothers, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth to those things which are before, 14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Maintaining a lifestyle that honors God helps to weaken the influence of the lower nature and fosters spiritual health.
Blessed Sabbath Folks !
Let me put this into the concept of Jesus.... and His ideal of Sanctification unto Glorification and Eternal Life .
... expressed by this video
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Regarding the Sabbath as it was one of the 10 commandments given by Moses:
2 Tim. 2:15 talks about “rightly DIVIDING the word of God.” When we fail to recognize the “dividing lines” in the scriptures, it always causes confusion, and leads to misunderstandings about scripture.
One such “dividing line” was the difference between the Old Testament Jewish law called the law of Moses, because Moses was the one who delivered it, and the New Testament law of Christ, also called the “law of faith” in Romans 3:27. There Paul CONTRASTS Christ’s law of faith with the “ law of works” which was the old Jewish law of Moses. The “works” under that law were all of the sacrifices, and keeping of holy days, circumcision, sabbaths, and tithes that were to be kept. In Galations 4, Paul presents an allegory of these 2 covenants—the old covenant ( Old Testament Jewish law of Moses) and the new covenant ( New Testament will of Christ). Gal. 4:24. He says the covenant ( testament) that comes from Mt Sinai gives “bondage.” We know this to be the Law of Moses including the 10 commandments. He says these 2 covenants are SYMBOLIC of Abrahams 2 sons. Abraham was promised a son by God. But before the son God promised was born, Abraham had a son by his CONCUBINE. Hagar. A concubine was a SERVANT wife. Then later, the son that was promised by God was born to Abraham by his “free born” wife, Sarah. Sarah was NOT a servant but Hagar WAS. The Holy Spirit uses these two sons to “symbolize” the Old Testament and the New Testament.
OLD TESTAMENT
Ishmael born of the flesh .
Son of the BONDWOMAN
FROM Mt. Sinai which gives birth to bondage
Hagar is Mt Sinai in Arabia verse 25
NEW TESTAMENT
Isaac, born of the spirit and of promise
Son of the free woman
From Jerusalem above which is free.
Sarah is symbolic of Jerusalem
Galations 4:21-31
Now hear what he says. We are not children of the “BONDWOMAN” ( Old Testament) but of the “free. ( New Testament). We are no longer under the Old Testament law but we, Christian’s, are now under the law of Christ. Verse 30- CAST OUT the BONDWOMAN.
Chapter 5:1, “Stand fast in the LIBERTY ( freedom) which Christ has made us free ( from all of those sacrifices and “works” of the old Jewish law). And do not become entangled again with a yoke of BONDAGE. Circumcision is not going to profit you anything! Verse 2. Then he says if you try to keep and practice that Old Testament law YOU ARE ESTRANGED FROM CHRIST! Verse 4,
“You who attempt to be JUSTIFIED ( saved) by the law ( Old Testament) YOU HAVE FALLEN FROM GRACE,” verse 5.
In Chapter 2:16, Paul says “Knowing that a man IS NOT JUSTIFIED ( saved) by the WORKS OF THE LAW ( Old Testament), but BY FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST. Even we have believed in Christ Jesus that we might be JUSTIFUED BY FAITH IN CHRIST, NOT by the works of the law; for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. ( or saved).I encourage you to read all of chapters 4 and 5 in Galations.
I keep the commandments of Christ in the New Testament. I do not keep the commandments of the old Jewish law given by Moses in the Old Testanent. I do not want to be estranged from Christ. We cannot keep both laws at the same time. Christ’s new law has “casted out the BONDWOMAN.” I obey all of the 10 commandments except one; not because they are the 10 commandments in the Old testament, but because Christ has invcluded all except one in His new Law of Faith. So I do not steal, not because the 10 commandments tells me not to, but because the law of Christ tells me not to. Eph. 4:28
( continued)
2 Tim. 2:15 talks about “rightly DIVIDING the word of God.” When we fail to recognize the “dividing lines” in the scriptures, it always causes confusion, and leads to misunderstandings about scripture.
One such “dividing line” was the difference between the Old Testament Jewish law called the law of Moses, because Moses was the one who delivered it, and the New Testament law of Christ, also called the “law of faith” in Romans 3:27. There Paul CONTRASTS Christ’s law of faith with the “ law of works” which was the old Jewish law of Moses. The “works” under that law were all of the sacrifices, and keeping of holy days, circumcision, sabbaths, and tithes that were to be kept. In Galations 4, Paul presents an allegory of these 2 covenants—the old covenant ( Old Testament Jewish law of Moses) and the new covenant ( New Testament will of Christ). Gal. 4:24. He says the covenant ( testament) that comes from Mt Sinai gives “bondage.” We know this to be the Law of Moses including the 10 commandments. He says these 2 covenants are SYMBOLIC of Abrahams 2 sons. Abraham was promised a son by God. But before the son God promised was born, Abraham had a son by his CONCUBINE. Hagar. A concubine was a SERVANT wife. Then later, the son that was promised by God was born to Abraham by his “free born” wife, Sarah. Sarah was NOT a servant but Hagar WAS. The Holy Spirit uses these two sons to “symbolize” the Old Testament and the New Testament.
OLD TESTAMENT
Ishmael born of the flesh .
Son of the BONDWOMAN
FROM Mt. Sinai which gives birth to bondage
Hagar is Mt Sinai in Arabia verse 25
NEW TESTAMENT
Isaac, born of the spirit and of promise
Son of the free woman
From Jerusalem above which is free.
Sarah is symbolic of Jerusalem
Galations 4:21-31
Now hear what he says. We are not children of the “BONDWOMAN” ( Old Testament) but of the “free. ( New Testament). We are no longer under the Old Testament law but we, Christian’s, are now under the law of Christ. Verse 30- CAST OUT the BONDWOMAN.
Chapter 5:1, “Stand fast in the LIBERTY ( freedom) which Christ has made us free ( from all of those sacrifices and “works” of the old Jewish law). And do not become entangled again with a yoke of BONDAGE. Circumcision is not going to profit you anything! Verse 2. Then he says if you try to keep and practice that Old Testament law YOU ARE ESTRANGED FROM CHRIST! Verse 4,
“You who attempt to be JUSTIFIED ( saved) by the law ( Old Testament) YOU HAVE FALLEN FROM GRACE,” verse 5.
In Chapter 2:16, Paul says “Knowing that a man IS NOT JUSTIFIED ( saved) by the WORKS OF THE LAW ( Old Testament), but BY FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST. Even we have believed in Christ Jesus that we might be JUSTIFUED BY FAITH IN CHRIST, NOT by the works of the law; for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. ( or saved).I encourage you to read all of chapters 4 and 5 in Galations.
I keep the commandments of Christ in the New Testament. I do not keep the commandments of the old Jewish law given by Moses in the Old Testanent. I do not want to be estranged from Christ. We cannot keep both laws at the same time. Christ’s new law has “casted out the BONDWOMAN.” I obey all of the 10 commandments except one; not because they are the 10 commandments in the Old testament, but because Christ has invcluded all except one in His new Law of Faith. So I do not steal, not because the 10 commandments tells me not to, but because the law of Christ tells me not to. Eph. 4:28
( continued)
If you understand what Paul is saying in Galations 3, 4, and 5, then you will have no problem understanding the book of Hebrews. These 2 books, Galations and Hebrews, explain the difference between the Old Testament and the New Testament. They represent 2 very different laws. The Old Testament was for the Jews exclusively. It was never for the Gentiles. In fact it forbade Jews intermarrying with gentiles, gentiles could not come into the temple to worship. Only if you converted to the Jewish religion and became a “proselyte” were you required to keep their law.
Hebrews is encouraging Jewish Christians to Not go back to the Old Testament law. He does this by saying that Christ is better than Moses, chapter 3,; In chapter 4 he actually talks about the old sabbath of rest as compared to the spiritual sabbath that we have in Christ. He says just as God ceased from His works and rested on the sabbath day, even so Christ has ceased from HIs works, verse 10. Then He says, “There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. “ Verse 9. Ours now is a spiritual rest, not the physical rest of the old sabbath day.
Christ’s priesthood is BETTER than the Levitical priesthood of the Old Testament. ( chapters 4-7) The New covenant is BETTER than the old covenant 7:22. Jesus’s blood is BETTER than the blood of bulls and goats, 10:4. Christ’s sacrifice is BETTER than animal sacrifice, 9:23-28.
Then he makes it VERY PLAIN.
7:12, the law has been changed! The Old Testament law has been ANNULLED! 7:18.
There is the BRINGING IN of a BETTER hope. 7:19. Christ is the mediator of a BETTER covenant, established on BETTER promises. 8:6. “If the FIRST COVENANT ( old testament) had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a SECOND ( covenant). Verse 7. “ Behold, the days are coming when I will make a NEW COVENANT with the house of Judah—not like that old covenant that he made with their fathers when they left Egypt ( speaking of the one Moses received on Mt. Sinai.)verse 9.
Then he says,…
“ In that he says a new covenant, ( New Testament), he has made the first ( Old Testament) OBSOLETE!” Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to VANISH AWAY!”
Could it be any plainer? No one is under that Old Testament covenant today. Certainly not Christians who profess to follow Christ. That means no sacrifices, no feast days, no dietary restrictions, , no sabbath keeping, no tithing, no circumcision, no 10 commandments—nothing. Not one thing in that old covenant is binding onChristians.
People get upset when you say the 10 commandments are not binding on Christian’s but Christ has all of the original 10 commandments in His new covenant law EXCEPT ONE!! Remember the 7 th day to keep it holy. That is the only one that was not brought over into Christ’s new covenant law. Christ has not commanded Christians to keep the seventh day holy. Maybe partly because we have a new “spiritual seventh day” of rest. We dont need that old physical one anymore. The new sabbath represents Christ ceasing from His “spiritual” works;?while the old sabbath represents God ceasing from His physical work. And partly because we have a new day of importance in the New Testament— the first day of the week. It’s the day Christ overcame Satan; the day He conquered death; the day of the “first fruits” of the resurrection; the day He rose from the dead; the day the New Christian’s met to worship; the day they took the Lord’s supper, Acts 20:7; the day the apostle Paul told all of the churches to take up a collection. 1 Cor. 16:1-2. The day the disciples were all gathered together when Jesus first appeared to them after His resurrection. And the next first day of the week when they were all together again and Thomas felt the nail prints in His hands and the wound in His side.
Understanding God’s dividing lines is so important to understanding all of the Bible.
Hebrews is encouraging Jewish Christians to Not go back to the Old Testament law. He does this by saying that Christ is better than Moses, chapter 3,; In chapter 4 he actually talks about the old sabbath of rest as compared to the spiritual sabbath that we have in Christ. He says just as God ceased from His works and rested on the sabbath day, even so Christ has ceased from HIs works, verse 10. Then He says, “There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. “ Verse 9. Ours now is a spiritual rest, not the physical rest of the old sabbath day.
Christ’s priesthood is BETTER than the Levitical priesthood of the Old Testament. ( chapters 4-7) The New covenant is BETTER than the old covenant 7:22. Jesus’s blood is BETTER than the blood of bulls and goats, 10:4. Christ’s sacrifice is BETTER than animal sacrifice, 9:23-28.
Then he makes it VERY PLAIN.
7:12, the law has been changed! The Old Testament law has been ANNULLED! 7:18.
There is the BRINGING IN of a BETTER hope. 7:19. Christ is the mediator of a BETTER covenant, established on BETTER promises. 8:6. “If the FIRST COVENANT ( old testament) had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a SECOND ( covenant). Verse 7. “ Behold, the days are coming when I will make a NEW COVENANT with the house of Judah—not like that old covenant that he made with their fathers when they left Egypt ( speaking of the one Moses received on Mt. Sinai.)verse 9.
Then he says,…
“ In that he says a new covenant, ( New Testament), he has made the first ( Old Testament) OBSOLETE!” Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to VANISH AWAY!”
Could it be any plainer? No one is under that Old Testament covenant today. Certainly not Christians who profess to follow Christ. That means no sacrifices, no feast days, no dietary restrictions, , no sabbath keeping, no tithing, no circumcision, no 10 commandments—nothing. Not one thing in that old covenant is binding onChristians.
People get upset when you say the 10 commandments are not binding on Christian’s but Christ has all of the original 10 commandments in His new covenant law EXCEPT ONE!! Remember the 7 th day to keep it holy. That is the only one that was not brought over into Christ’s new covenant law. Christ has not commanded Christians to keep the seventh day holy. Maybe partly because we have a new “spiritual seventh day” of rest. We dont need that old physical one anymore. The new sabbath represents Christ ceasing from His “spiritual” works;?while the old sabbath represents God ceasing from His physical work. And partly because we have a new day of importance in the New Testament— the first day of the week. It’s the day Christ overcame Satan; the day He conquered death; the day of the “first fruits” of the resurrection; the day He rose from the dead; the day the New Christian’s met to worship; the day they took the Lord’s supper, Acts 20:7; the day the apostle Paul told all of the churches to take up a collection. 1 Cor. 16:1-2. The day the disciples were all gathered together when Jesus first appeared to them after His resurrection. And the next first day of the week when they were all together again and Thomas felt the nail prints in His hands and the wound in His side.
Understanding God’s dividing lines is so important to understanding all of the Bible.
All of that means nothing when you simply hear what Jesus said… Obey My commandments… He who loves Me will obey My commandments…I did not come to destroy the law but to fulfill it.. and there are more..
I don’t believe I remember reading Jesus saying to .. Obey My commandments- except for keeping the Sabbath…
He did not have to spent any time telling us what He wanted us to obey or keep.
Everyone is entitled to their own ways…
Yes, Jesus said “if you love me, keep my commandments.” John 14:15. But keeping the seventh day holy was never a commandment of Jesus under the New covenant ( Hebrews 9:15). It was a commandment under the Old covenant and Paul said Jesus “wiped out the handwriting of requirements” and nailed them to His cross. Colossians 2:14 and in verse 16 he specified which ones were specifically “wiped out” . He says “sabbaths” were “wiped out”! I didn’t say it —the Holy Spirit said it. You can argue with Him.
And yes, Jesus fulfilled the law but when? Matthew 5:18. When he had fulfilled every prophecy made about Him under the law. His death, was prophecied under the old law so all was not fulfilled until that took place. Jesus said on the cross, “it is finished.”” Every prophecy concerning Him was fulfilled. He fulfilled them all when He died. Now read Matthew 5:18. Not one thing “will by no means PASS FROM THE LAW UNTIL ALL IS FULFILLED.” Jesus did not say the things under the old law woujd NEVER PASS AWAY; He said they would last until He had “fulfilled” the law. And He finished that when He died.
That’s why Colossians 2:14-16 says that Jesus took the old law with its “food restrictions, religious festivals and SABBATHS, AWAY NAILING THEM TO HIS CROSS. They ceased when He died on the cross. Sabbath days are specified as one of the things he “TOOK AWAY!”
Matthew 6:17 which you quoted has a TIME FRAME; which you did not acknowledge.