Some truth about speaking in tongues, the Holy Ghost, spiritual gifts and 1 Corinthians 14

[garee]

I'd like to answer about interpretation of tongues in a 'real talk' way.

Sometimes we're trying to talk to God. Sometimes we're trying to talk to man. Paul starts by explaining that unknown tongues is for talking to God, not man. And prophesying is talking to man, not God.

The only time tongues conveys a message to anyone other than God, is if God provides the interpretation (which is akin to prophesying).

So basically Paul is telling them "Unless God tells you he's going to provide an interpretation, don't be standing up to share something with us and instead start speaking in tongues BECAUSE NO ONE WILL UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE SAYING, because, AGAIN, 'unknown' tongues is NOT for conveying messages to man." ...and... " If you feel the need to stand up and do that, then you'd better be praying to be given the interpretation (to share) or your just going to look like a fool."



Love in Jesus,
Kelby

The word "unknown" was added destroying the purpose of tongues to convey a know request .

Turning it into make a noise and it confirm something..

 

[garee]

No - The Revival Fellowship is not like the U.S. pentecostal doctrine of "Oneness"
nor are we yet of another U.S. invention - "Word Of Faith."

Revival Fellowship (the healing show) of supposed sign gifts fits right into the same pattern as the other a oral traditions of men .Oneness, or the Word of Faith, as doctrines of men

Its never about revival of the corrupted flesh as if these bodies of death could profit for something.. The promise is new bodies .

 

[KelbyofGod]

1 Corinthians 14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

... But Paul here says to pray that he may be able to interpret or else its unfruitful.

Actually, in verse 14 he's saying there is a spiritual benefit, but it is unfruitful for his mind....that he's not gaining understanding. That's different than saying he's gaining no benefit at all... otherwise he's wrong when he said in verse 4 "He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth (builds up, strengthens) himself:"

 

[wolfwint]

All you are doing is cherry picking to twist the truth.
The following verses CLEARLY depict tongues in private use,which is a transaction between God and the pray- er,vs being with other believers where either prophesy or an interpreter would edify the assembly.
But of course you NEED IT to say something else.
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.

4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

5 I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

SEE THAT????
IT CLEARLY,CLEARLY supports what i amd thousands other H S baptised believers practice,and enjoy the FACT that the bible AUTHENTICATES it,but you call it demonic.
Wow,you got some heavy duty repenting calling the Holy Spirit demonic.

You see,when ANYONE prays for the Holy Spirit.satan CANNOT ANSWER that prayer.
We are guaranteed the Holy Spirit.

You should not ,in your mind, flippantly attribute the work of the Holy Spirit to satan.
It is chilling.
Repulsive.

Oh,and concerning laughter,the bible says "joy" is my strength.
My strength.
Look up " joy unspeakable"
(Yet another heavenly blessing you attribute to satan)

In the bible you normaly not find the major thinking is right. There are more then 600 000 000 pentecostals and charismatics, is this an indication for to be right? There are more then 1 000 000 000 Roman Catholics is this an indication they are right?
Are expieriences an indicator for to be right?
Would I find this doctrine find in the bible, i would believe it. In the same way RC ore JW take the scripture to defend their view, you do.
Tell me an single example that this pentecostal view of be baptised with the Holy Spirit and as proof for that the speaking in tongues in the churchhistorie. It begann in 1901 with Agnes Ozman. And spread in various forms and doctrines in rhe world till today. Even among the pentecostal and charismatic movements the doctrines are such different that this hinders to be one mind in it.
When this was not taught in the early church and the bible not clear teaches it. Why then it should be believed?

 

[garee]

Verse 1 mentions prophesying.
Verse 2 mentions tongues and verse 3 CONTRASTS prophesying with tongues.
Verse 4 CONTRASTS prophesying with tongues.
Verse 5 CONTRASTS prophesying with tongues, then declares one greater than the other.

If tongues is prophesying, then how can prophesying be greater than tongues?

Hi Dino 246 Thanks for the reply.. and the word bafflegab.

Sorry if I caused you extra work. I am working on the "read aloud" feature . I had it working once, and it does not seem to come on again. When my daughter stops over I will have her show me .

Bottom line is always the "hearing of faith". (prophecy) No faith, not hearing prophecy. Hear the work of the faith of Christ that works in us, with us... believe God not seen. The gift of salvation.

The focus of all the doctrines of God to include God bringing prophecy in the manner "of tongues" as one many manners he did bring His word (prophecy) when he was still adding to the now perfect. . It has ceased .(.another witness )

I would say we first look to the foundation of the "doctrine of tongues" so that we can understand the purpose of the sign .

The goal of the Pentecost's the manner of spirit that requires signs the performance or the showing of outward things hoping it could confirm that not seen. (the assumed filling of the Spirit) .

That oral tradition of that sect is not a tradition of God. There simply are no sign gifts. Spirit given gifts called "spiritual gifts", yes. We walk by faith.. Signs to seek after to confirm something outwardly , no.

God would never ask a person to drink literal poison . That sounds more like the fathers of lies.The idea to die as a martyr for your faith. A murder from the beginning. That would go for the rest of the metaphors used in Mark 16 all used in the same way as metaphor used in parable.

To chose a literal interpretation of those signs in the parable of Mark 16 is spiritual suicide...

#1 The faithless Jews to show they do not believe in a God not seen are faulted for rejecting the words of God's prophecy. Just as in Jerimaiah 44...... refusing to hear the word of God they made it , as it is written without effect;( verse 16) for we certainly do everything that hath gone out of our mouth, to make perfume to the queen of the heavens' and see no evil in doing so

#2 Now that the foundation (Isaiah 28) is established . Verse 11 establishes God mocking those like in Jerimiah 44. Those who mock God with stammering lips by refusing to believe God. He mocks them back as a sign to the world of their unbelief. they refused to mix faith in what they do did hear as we are in formed in Hebrew 4. and there are shown as those who harden their hearts )This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.)

For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken. Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem Isaiah 28.11-14

#3 Prophecy, the word of God is the greatest authority necessary for any spiritual gift (hearing God) They refused to hear it in any manner to include tongues, which is prophecy spoken of to all the nations of the world.

He is not comparing prophecy God's word, to different manners as to which "manner is the greatest" .They all accomplish the same purpose, a person is given the faith of Christ by which he can believe prophecy, the word of God. . .

The word "greater" is used that way many times as relating to a position, not and authority. The father is not greater than the Son

Prophecy, ….. every one hears the interpretation of God as at Pentecost in their own understanding Not some private revelation from another. . Or prophecy none heard it in their own language. The speaker should be quite .Whether if there is understanding, the speaker who is moved to bring new prophecy should continue to the end.

I would think. Position not authority . every spiritual gift conveyed by the same Spirit of prophecy. Prophecy, the word of God the greatest authority. The manner by which it does come can vary.

Search out the meaning as to what the sign does and what they confirm in respect to which group the the rsyt of the doctrine of tongues will fall into place.

If tongues do not equal prophecy "God's interpretation" then what do they equal as a understanding ? Private interpretations?

 

[garee]

Actually, in verse 14 he's saying there is a spiritual benefit, but it is unfruitful for his mind....that he's not gaining understanding. That's different than saying he's gaining no benefit at all... otherwise he's wrong when he said in verse 4 "He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth (builds up, strengthens) himself:"

The word unknown was added. It would seem from my perspective to only add confusion. No benefit in that.

Why would it be called a spiritual benefit if it benefits for nothing ?(He gains no understanding)

If I told my wife in our confusion to understand each other. That it is where we will find our spiritual blesses. I would be served wish bone soup with a dash of salt to intensify and preserve ….learn how to listen. It could benefit two walking together .

 

[Dino246]

A 10 or even 30 minute deadline would serve the same purpose,and more reasonably so.

This would make it far more possible for people who are quoted quickly to edit their own posts and make it look like the quoter edited their posts. Five minutes is plenty... we just need to proofread and consider how it sounds before clicking "Post reply".

 

[calibob]

This would make it far more possible for people who are quoted quickly to edit their own posts and make it look like the quoter edited their posts. Five minutes is plenty... we just need to proofread and consider how it sounds before clicking "Post reply".

I only type with 1 hand and I edit and make corrections in less then 5 min almost daily. Admittedly I often proof read but only see what it's supposed to say before posting then catch the errors after but 5 min is usually sufficient time for me.

 

[Dino246]

I only type with 1 hand and I edit and make corrections in less then 5 min almost daily. Admittedly I often proof read but only see what it's supposed to say before posting then catch the errors after but 5 min is usually sufficient time for me.

Agreed. I often overlook errors made when I re-write a section. Thankfully most of them are minor and the gist of the message is still clear.

 

[TLC209]

All you are doing is cherry picking to twist the truth.
The following verses CLEARLY depict tongues in private use,which is a transaction between God and the pray- er,vs being with other believers where either prophesy or an interpreter would edify the assembly.
But of course you NEED IT to say something else.
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.

4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

5 I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

SEE THAT????
IT CLEARLY,CLEARLY supports what i amd thousands other H S baptised believers practice,and enjoy the FACT that the bible AUTHENTICATES it,but you call it demonic.
Wow,you got some heavy duty repenting calling the Holy Spirit demonic.

You see,when ANYONE prays for the Holy Spirit.satan CANNOT ANSWER that prayer.
We are guaranteed the Holy Spirit.

You should not ,in your mind, flippantly attribute the work of the Holy Spirit to satan.
It is chilling.
Repulsive.

Oh,and concerning laughter,the bible says "joy" is my strength.
My strength.
Look up " joy unspeakable"
(Yet another heavenly blessing you attribute to satan)

I never said the Holy Spirit is demonic are you insane?

Slow your roll youngsta. Thats not how you talk to someone. I know your all over the threads but slow down player. Them boys got u goin in circles. I never said speaking in tounges is demonic. I been to so many churches and I always heard tounges when the presence of God was flowing. Thats not what I meant when I said people rolling around and laughing.. that Ive never seen in the churches I been to. Unless they had an evil spirit. Because evil spirits can be cast out during the flow of the Holy Spirit. It happens alot where people start to vomit.

So chill out thinking im some of these other guys on the threads. If you cant have respect then just miss me altogether. I aint here for any of that noise.

 

[calibob]

I never said the Holy Spirit is demonic are you insane?

Slow your roll youngsta. Thats not how you talk to someone. I know your all over the threads but slow down player. Them boys got u goin in circles. I never said speaking in tounges is demonic. I been to so many churches and I always heard tounges when the presence of God was flowing. Thats not what I meant when I said people rolling around and laughing.. that Ive never seen in the churches I been to. Unless they had an evil spirit. Because evil spirits can be cast out during the flow of the Holy Spirit. It happens alot where people start to vomit.

So chill out thinking im some of these other guys on the threads. If you cant have respect then just miss me altogether. I aint here for any of that noise.

There's plenty of counterfeit religions posing as Christian. And plenty of counterfeit Christians that realize getting people excited and stirring up emotions is easy money. Pseudo-christian P. T. Barnum's. They prey on emotions and soft heads. Speaking in tongues appears to exists outside of Christianity as well. Plus there is a phenomena of "Shared Psychosis" just to gum things up.

I personally would hesitate to validate or condemn others who would appear to have spiritual gifts. Only God knows the players without a program. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is a bridge too far for me and since I believe the Bible I also believe in the gift of tongues too. There was even a counterfeit Jesus. He was a magician and a fraud! That didn't negate the truth of the gospel.

Fresh from WebMD;
A shared psychotic disorder is a rare type of mental illness in which a healthy person starts to take on the delusions of someone who has a psychotic disorder such as schizophrenia.


For example, let’s say your spouse has a psychotic disorder and, as part of that illness, believes aliens are spying on him or her. If you have a shared psychotic disorder, you’ll start to believe in the spying aliens. But apart from that, your thoughts and behavior are normal.

Can some who appear to speak in tongues be fakes or crazy? OF COURSE! can some be real however? Absolutely!

1_corinthians/2-14.htm
New International Version. The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. New Living Translation. But people who aren't spiritual can't receive these truths from God's Spirit.

 

[calibob]

A pannel by @Magenta >

 

[KelbyofGod]

The word unknown was added. It would seem from my perspective to only add confusion. No benefit in that.

Why would it be called a spiritual benefit if it benefits for nothing ?(He gains no understanding)

If I told my wife in our confusion to understand each other. That it is where we will find our spiritual blesses. I would be served wish bone soup with a dash of salt to intensify and preserve ….learn how to listen. It could benefit two walking together .

The word 'unknown' was indeed added. That's one reason I like the KJV; it italicizes any word that was added for the intent of clarification. Feel free to take the word "unknown" out of the text and see if it makes more sense. I'm guessing it doesn't.

I think it's somewhat appropriate in this case kind of like "manna" was an appropriate name for the bread God was giving from heaven. The people were seeing it but not understanding what it is so they called it "manna" which means "What is it?" Basically they named it "Whatsit."


It doesn't matter if we don't understand how it will benefit us prior to doing it. Just like Jesus told Peter "You won't understand what this is before you experience it, but you'll understand afterwards" when Jesus was about to wash Peter's feet. Peter's struggled intellectually with this concept and Jesus did not indulge his desire to understand it. Peter had to submit himself (by faith) to what didn't make sense to him... before he would understand its purpose/benefit.

That's also how it is with tongues. Yes, indeed it edifies the speaker, but No, you won't understand how that works until you receive it and experience it yourself.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[KelbyofGod]

It doesn't matter if we don't understand how it will benefit us prior to doing it. Just like Jesus told Peter "You won't understand what this is before you experience it, but you'll understand afterwards" when Jesus was about to wash Peter's feet. Peter's struggled intellectually with this concept and Jesus did not indulge his desire to understand it. Peter had to submit himself (by faith) to what didn't make sense to him... before he would understand its purpose/benefit.

That's also how it is with tongues. Yes, indeed it edifies the speaker, but No, you won't understand how that works until you receive it and experience it yourself.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

BTW, notice that even though Peter was a disciple and a believer Jesus said basically "If you don't submit to this, you have no part with me". So it is with receiving the Holy Ghost. if you don't submit to it, you have no part with him, as says Romans 8:9:

Romans 8:9 KJV
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

 

[KelbyofGod]

It looks like once-saved-always-saved didn't work for Peter either.... he had to keep seeking, learning, growing, submitting, etc.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It looks like once-saved-always-saved didn't work for Peter either.... he had to keep seeking, learning, growing, submitting, etc.

Seeking, learning, Growing Submitting is a part of sanctification process.

Not the salvation process.

I assume you think you can earn your salvation also?? What do you have that you can offer God that would be so great it would prevent him from having to die for your sin?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

BTW, notice that even though Peter was a disciple and a believer Jesus said basically "If you don't submit to this, you have no part with me". So it is with receiving the Holy Ghost. if you don't submit to it, you have no part with him, as says Romans 8:9:

Romans 8:9 KJV
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Yep

Which proves what I have been saying, If you do not have the HS in you. Your not saved.

 

[KelbyofGod]

to complete a piece of that picture...that's also why the Holy Ghost SAT on each of them on the day of Pentecost. God had to put and keep a little pressure on them until they were able to let go of their intellectual resistance. (paraphrased in my wording).

 

[eternally-gratefull]

to complete a piece of that picture...that's also why the Holy Ghost SAT on each of them on the day of Pentecost. God had to put and keep a little pressure on them until they were able to let go of their intellectual resistance. (paraphrased in my wording).

What?

What happen on the day of pentecost was REAL gifting. The things they did happened naturally, they we not worked at. And it does not appear the disciples were resisting (again, but the natural flow. If they resisted. It would not be natural

 

[KelbyofGod]

Yep

Which proves what I have been saying, If you do not have the HS in you. Your not saved.

I'm hoping you realize that by saying this, you are also saying that the believing, baptized disciples in Acts chapter 8 CANNOT be accurately labeled as "saved" at the time of belief (verse 12) because they didn't receive the Holy Ghost until a few days later (verse 17).

At least not if you are using the traditional church definition of Saved= "you need nothing more to make it to heaven".

(I personally don't use that definition, and rarely see need to label someone as "saved" because of the traditional assumptions made if somone uses that word)