Some truth about speaking in tongues, the Holy Ghost, spiritual gifts and 1 Corinthians 14

[Wansvic]

What I object to is a bloodless gospel. Only the blood of Christ can atone for sin. Water baptism cannot fulfill the essential atonement made by the blood of Christ. Christ did all that God the Father required to redeem our souls. We are made alive by the Holy Spirit the moment we believe that Christ takes our sin and gives us eternal life. Water baptism is not essential for salvation and not required to receive the Holy Spirit.

We are saved by grace or we are not saved. Unsaved folks going about to establish this and that as necessary for salvation is just what religious folks do instead of simply trusting Christ.

I have no problem with you quoting the word of God it is just that you draw entirely incorrect conclusions about the scripture you cite. It requires the presence of the Holy Spirit to reach the correct conclusions and the Holy Spirit only abides in hearts that have been quickened by grace.

2 Cor 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Matt 3:13-17
"Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

 

[notuptome]

Matt 3:13-17
"Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

Jesus never sinned. There was never a time when Jesus was not righteous. The same cannot be said for the rest of us in fact God has declared us all sinners and that there are none righteous no not one. We need a Savior, we need the atonement of the blood of Christ.

1 Cor 15:1 ¶ Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Waggles]

Time to move on …

 

[notuptome]

Time to move on …

2Co 6:2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

Turn to Christ while there is yet time for soon the day will end and all will come into judgment.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[stonesoffire]

Humility. Lord be merciful to me a sinner. Create in me a new heart. The power to make a dead soul alive in Christ unto eternal life.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

And you said I was making up my own definition. Lol

 

[Wansvic]

Jesus never sinned.

Exactly! He undoubtedly got water baptized in order to leave us an example to follow. Also, notice that this is the first time God refers to Jesus as His beloved son in whom He is well pleased.


"And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." Matt 3:15-17


The ultimate goal is to become children of God.

 

[notuptome]

Exactly! He undoubtedly got water baptized in order to leave us an example to follow. Also, notice that this is the first time God refers to Jesus as His beloved son in whom He is well pleased.


"And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." Matt 3:15-17


The ultimate goal is to become children of God.

We are made the children of God when we believe in Christ. We do not become the children of God by our efforts.

Jesus was baptized to fulfil the expectations of the Jewish ceremonial law. Jesus was no more righteous after He was baptized that before He was baptized.

We must be born again to be children of God. We are born again by grace and it is an action wholly done by God. You can never be good enough to atone for even a single sin.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

And you said I was making up my own definition. Lol

God has chosen the simple things to confound the wise. In our weakness His strength is perfected.

Have you been born again? Do you know that Christ has forgiven all your sin?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[KelbyofGod]

Deat Kelby, I dont want struggle you, anymore.
You are all convinct from your expierience and your teachings.
But till now, no pentecostal ore charismatic was able to show me from the scripture that it was taught that speaking in tongues is the proof that someone is baptised with the Holy Spirit. The basic of your doctrine.
(Acts 2,10 and 19 i cant count, because it can be interpretet different.)
Also nobody could show me that this was taught during the churchhistory.
It began in 1901, this why the pentecostals are proud to Call it the beginning of their movement.
If we would live in the Year 40 ore 50 ad i would agree fully with the teachings in 1. Cor. 12 and 14.
But all teachings we have today hat their beginning in 1901. And many different teachings Followed. ( oneness pentecostals, different charismatic movements)
Today the most of the pentecostals and charismatics Work to an oekomene among christians together with the RCC.
They claim they have the Holy Spirit baptism and be filled with him, but accept false teachings.
How I can trust such an Doctrine?
I entered this thread, because in your Headline you spoke about truth.
Truth works not together with lie. And I dont believe that the Holy Spirit supports lie ore false Doctrines.

Have a blessed Day.

There's a reason this thread started by clarifying that it is for those who either HAVE, WANT, or are CURIOUS about tongues and gifts of the spirit. Because reality is that there are those who Have, desire, and/or are curious about tongues and spiritual gifts.

Reality also includes those who don't have, don't want and aren't curious about the gifts of the spirit. You get to choose how much you want. God isn't going to force you into these things.

If you don't want to believe that God does the things that the bible, and we, testify that the Holy Spirit does... that's up to you, not me. Same as any time you testify about Jesus, it is up to the individual whether they want to believe Jesus is real or made up.... How well you talk, and how much scripture you show them cannot sway them if they've determined to believe otherwise.

I learned a long time ago not to bother taking pictures of miracles because evidence is not the lacking piece in an unbeliever. Unbelief = a REFUSAL to believe. Even a person raised from the dead sent to testify to them cannot convince someone who refuses to allow God to teach them. (Luke 16:19-31)

Tongues are for a sign to those who choose unbelief. A sign because even if the unbelieving hate them, fight them, discount them, and persecute & speak evil of those who have them...tongues are still here, still observable, still bearing witness of the Holy Ghost, and still being poured out upon believers around the world (not just in the USA since 1901, even as your own reference to "sects and cults" verifies). And they will continue to be a sign until Jesus returns.

There's more to say on this but I'll post this much while I search for wording.

As always... Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[KelbyofGod]

I've been staying away from the discussion for a few days because I wanted to know how to handle the 'opposition' in the thread. (Spoiler alert...that means I wanted to pray about it rather than acting in the flesh)

It basically boils down to this. Some people refuse to follow (submit to) basic truths, principles and requests.

A basic principle of this thread is that it is for people who want to know MORE (not less) about tongues, spiritual gifts, prophesying, etc. Post #1 states that principle and purpose.

A basic truth is that there are MULTIPLE threads for those who would like to speak against such things as tongues, spiritual gifts, prophesyings, etc.

A basic request is that people search themselves and be HONEST about which group they are in...and then choose threads that match the areas where they can contribute in agreement with the purpose of the thread they chose.

The bible says that people who are unfaithful in the least things will also be unfaithful in their handling of the greater things.

The request to honor the purpose of this thread is a small thing.

People who refuse to submit to the basic principles, truths, & requests of this thread also refuse to submit to greater truths, principles & requests. Yes, this goes all the way up to biblical truths, principles & requests.

But the same way a person can convince themself that a small principle, truth and request can be disregarded without consequence, they can convince themself that the big ones can be disregarded also.

Still more to say but I need to fulfil other obligations at the moment.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[stonesoffire]

God has chosen the simple things to confound the wise. In our weakness His strength is perfected.

Have you been born again? Do you know that Christ has forgiven all your sin?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Yes, born again in November of ' 72 and baptized by Jesus in Holy Spirit, with tongues and other giftings given in '73.

God has been gracious to me all my life. Better than 10 husband's.

How about you Roger?

 

[stonesoffire]

By the way, your post was good but I think you missed the point of your own writing.

The baptism with giftings is for the purpose of testing from your own works, and performing His as led.

Is truth that in weakness, is our strength made perfect.

 

[notuptome]

Yes, born again in November of ' 72 and baptized by Jesus in Holy Spirit, with tongues and other giftings given in '73.

God has been gracious to me all my life. Better than 10 husband's.

How about you Roger?

Comforting to hear you were born again but the Holy Spirit baptism would have by necessity been at the time of your conversion. You are not saved until the Holy Spirit quickens you by grace.

I trusted Christ as my Savior in July 1976. My wife received Christ in 1977 having been Roman Catholic all her life until that time. Discipleship in Gods word is extremely important for young Christians. Our adversary goes about seeking those whom he can devour through unsound doctrine.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

By the way, your post was good but I think you missed the point of your own writing.

The baptism with giftings is for the purpose of testing from your own works, and performing His as led.

Is truth that in weakness, is our strength made perfect.

I do not believe that to be sound doctrine but rather the thorns that choked out the seed.

Mt 13:22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

The desire for power is deceitful. Gods word teaches us to be humble. Those who desire tongues cannot grow in the admonition and nurture of the Lord.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[stonesoffire]

I do not believe that to be sound doctrine but rather the thorns that choked out the seed.

Mt 13:22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

The desire for power is deceitful. Gods word teaches us to be humble. Those who desire tongues cannot grow in the admonition and nurture of the Lord.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I do not believe that to be sound doctrine but rather the thorns that choked out the seed.

Mt 13:22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

The desire for power is deceitful. Gods word teaches us to be humble. Those who desire tongues cannot grow in the admonition and nurture of the Lord.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Then you should instruct the one who baptises. I only asked HOLY SPIRIT to fill me. He chose to do it His way.

Read Isaiah 28 in the amplified. The refreshing rest.

 

[notuptome]

Then you should instruct the one who baptises. I only asked HOLY SPIRIT to fill me. He chose to do it His way.

Read Isaiah 28 in the amplified. The refreshing rest.

What is refreshing about going into captivity?

Men are always rewriting the bible. Isaiah 28 is very clear that that Jehovah God is warning through the prophet that Israel was going to be taken into captivity for their apostacy. There is nothing restful in God pronouncing woe upon the people of Israel.

Your lack of sound biblical discipleship is painfully evident.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[TLC209]

Jesus was baptized to fulfil the expectations of the Jewish ceremonial law.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

If it was jewish ceremonial law, Then why didnt the pharisees get baptized?

Luke 7:29 And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.
30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.

 

[notuptome]

If it was jewish ceremonial law, Then why didnt the pharisees get baptized?

Luke 7:29 And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.
30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.

They saw themselves are already clean. They would only wash prior to service in the temple.

Jesus began His ministry after His water baptism. Symbolic for He did not require cleansing.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[TLC209]

They saw themselves are already clean. They would only wash prior to service in the temple.

Jesus began His ministry after His water baptism. Symbolic for He did not require cleansing.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Then how do you explain why John said the following:

Matthew 3:5 Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,
6 And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.
7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

 

[wolfwint]

I've been staying away from the discussion for a few days because I wanted to know how to handle the 'opposition' in the thread. (Spoiler alert...that means I wanted to pray about it rather than acting in the flesh)

It basically boils down to this. Some people refuse to follow (submit to) basic truths, principles and requests.

A basic principle of this thread is that it is for people who want to know MORE (not less) about tongues, spiritual gifts, prophesying, etc. Post #1 states that principle and purpose.

A basic truth is that there are MULTIPLE threads for those who would like to speak against such things as tongues, spiritual gifts, prophesyings, etc.

A basic request is that people search themselves and be HONEST about which group they are in...and then choose threads that match the areas where they can contribute in agreement with the purpose of the thread they chose.

The bible says that people who are unfaithful in the least things will also be unfaithful in their handling of the greater things.

The request to honor the purpose of this thread is a small thing.

People who refuse to submit to the basic principles, truths, & requests of this thread also refuse to submit to greater truths, principles & requests. Yes, this goes all the way up to biblical truths, principles & requests.

But the same way a person can convince themself that a small principle, truth and request can be disregarded without consequence, they can convince themself that the big ones can be disregarded also.

Still more to say but I need to fulfil other obligations at the moment.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Thank you for answereing Kelby. Ihave no problems with Gods working today supernaturel as he did from the beginning till now
This is not the point.
The point is that that in the bible nobody taught ore gave a hint it is taught that speaking in tongues is a proof to be baptized with the Holy Spirit.
Also you cant deny that this teaching today began in 1901 and spread then worldwide.
Solong I cant find this teaching, along with the "sideeffects'" it had, when it began I have no reason to believe that this is from God.
I got a spiritual gift when I was born again. To distinguish the spirits. And this gave me the same alarm when it comes to this pentecostal/ charismatic teaching, then to cults. Should I ignore this?
I believe that God can call today people through all kinds of miracles to his family. Even through tongues!
But this pentecostal/ charismatic teaching which we find since 1901 is wrong and splitted the christianity.