Someone PLEASE tell me I'm not the only one to think this!

[sltaylor]

John 15:1-8, and Romans 11:19-23.
I don't know how it could be any clearer.

Not cursing anybody, they will be grafted back in if they don't continue in their unbelief.
Just like every other nation on earth, no one who doesn't come to Christ, will EVER enter the kingdom, and that goes for everyone, there is nothing that makes anyone chosen other than him.

* * ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** **[/QUOTE/]

Are you sure that you are have been grafted in? According to you, because of their unbelief they no longer is part of the family and household of God. If that is what you believe, then you don't have a right to grafted in now because of your unbelief. You don't truly believe the entire word of God but only the scriptures that you think justify what you believe as truth.

Umm, are you serious. Because according to me....no according to God breathed Scripture they will not be grafted back in if they continue in their unbelief, not according to me.

Going to copy and paste it for you....it's not according to me...I cannot believe you actually believe that....

Romans 11:20-"But they were broken off because of unbelief".

It's about Christ, not Israel. They are not chosen by that name, they are chosen because they belonged to the root that supported them. And if they don't come to the one that was sent, how can they belong to God. Are they going to make it to heaven apart from Christ, is that what you would have me believe? And if the answer is no, then apart from Christ they don't sound to accepted into his kingdom now do they?

 

[Cpsullivan2]

yes I'm very serious I don't understand why you can't understand that isreal is still God God's people, there is no difference between Jews or gentiles. we all are one body in Christ Jesus. the same way they was chosen by God God Himself to bring forth the Messiah the Word of God in what you now believe in how how do you not believe that. it was because of their we are grafted in to the family of God. He use them as a stumbling stone for us to make way for us to be saved, And use the gentiles to provoke jealousy into the Jews, God has not forgot his people him nor has he rejected his people you cannot say that you believe watches it every day and you have no singing if that's the case then you a liar that's what God says in the book of John first John see if you say you have no see do you see you on sale in the truth the gods not in you there's no difference between you falling asleep male female we are all one body in Christ one he came to fulfill the law and the prophets and he did not come through where is really I don't understand yall replacement theology but it is not the word of God do you even know who Christ is he is the Son of God who stepped out of eternity into time on our behalf Jews Greek didn't highlight upon the cross all of us in anti world that would make come to know and have fellowship with the father again by his blood raise get on the third day he Jesus my Lord my Savior was Jewish rabbi Hebrew of Hebrews he did not did not use real he still is not in that is real why can't you understand my speech god is faithful he still love his chosen people he still is right he still going to protect his people and things working out if you knew anything about Bible prophecy in the state the world that we have right now you would know God has not given up on his people he called his chosen people he said he was going to scatter them and you going to bring them back and its going to bring them back to their promised land and that was fulfilled on, May 14th 1948 everything a God has said about his chosen people the has come and paste has not rejected him why can't you understand it?

It's really late and I have To get up for work in a few hours, I'm letting you know I have edit this. God-Bless

 

[Elin]

yes I'm very serious I don't understand why you can't understand that isreal is still God God's people, there is no difference between Jews or gentiles. we all are one body in Christ Jesus. the same way they was chosen by God God Himself to bring forth the Messiah the Word of God in what you now believe in how how do you not believe that. it was because of their we are grafted in to the family of God. He use them as a stumbling stone for us to make way for us to be saved, And use the gentiles to provoke jealousy into the Jews,
God has not forgot his people him nor has he rejected his people

Yes, that is what Paul reveals, but he also reveals what that means in light of the rejection of Christ by so many.

He shows that God has not rejected his people and is keeping his promise to them
but in a remnant only (Ro 11:5), as prophesied in Is 10:22-23 (Ro 9:27).

The majority of them reject Christ and are not his people, for God has no people not in Christ, the olive tree.

you cannot say that you believe watches it every day and you have no singing if that's the case then you a liar that's what God says in the book of John first John see if you say you have no see do you see you on sale in the truth the gods not in you there's no difference between you falling asleep male female we are all one body in Christ one he came to fulfill the law and the prophets and he did not come through where is really I don't understand yall replacement theology but it is not the word of God do you even know who Christ is he is the Son of God who stepped out of eternity into time on our behalf Jews Greek didn't highlight upon the cross all of us in anti world that would make come to know and have fellowship with the father again by his blood raise get on the third day he Jesus my Lord my Savior was Jewish rabbi Hebrew of Hebrews he did not did not use real he still is not in that is real why can't you understand my speech god is faithful he still love his chosen people he still is right he still going to protect his people and things working out if you knew anything about Bible prophecy in the state the world that we have right now you would know God has not given up on his people he called his chosen people he said he was going to scatter them and you going to bring them back and its going to bring them back to their promised land and that was fulfilled on, May 14th 1948 everything a God has said about his chosen people the has come and paste has not rejected him why can't you understand it?

It's really late and I have To get up for work in a few hours, I'm letting you know I have edit this. God-Bless

 

[fredjames]

Yes, that is what Paul reveals, but he also reveals what that means in light of the rejection of Christ by so many.

He shows that God has not rejected his people and is keeping his promise to them
but in a remnant only (Ro 11:5), as prophesied in Is 10:22-23 (Ro 9:27).

The majority of them reject Christ and are not his people, for God has no people not in Christ, the olive tree.

When did they 'reject' and what have been said regarding them ever since by their own 'kinsmen' in humble and humility 'saved' faith themselves beginning from CHRIST and therefore according to the New Testament/Covenant?

They are the ones who did not reject CHRIST, and what did they 'testify' in 'whole' about their 'kinsmen', as a 'living witnesses' to those 'as follow' to them who have been chosen and placed?

For them to succeed or perish, even all of them?

What is your prayer for them, in thanksgiving to them and GOD regarding your Salvation?

Do you know first of all, your 'Salvation' came to you from those who have 'made to reject CHRIST' by GOD, foretold by the saying of the Old Testament/Covenant Prophets?

As Gentiles, knowing your 'adoption' by them, Apostle Paul said 'if' they remain in their unbelieve.

So what 'proud' Gentiles should do in faith knowledge, when their 'Salvation' actually came from them who have 'rejected' CHRIST?

What also did JESUS 'said' to HIS disciples to 'pray' for, written in the Gospel, in order to 'witness' to us, Jews or Gentiles who have been made 'equal', about what is Grace and Truth given, in order to 'abide' and 'bear much fruit'?

JESUS said for our 'witnessing' and 'prayer' through HIS disciples in the Gospel, to pray to GOD, for those who have been made to 'reject' by GOD, who have even today once again made as a nation of Israel, placing them again in their own given land and partially lost, but still standing even today and nobody can 'touch' them but GOD, that;

"To save Israel from all of it's troubles."

Repent to GOD of the Holy Scripture, and have you 'practiced' such a prayer for them, even today in thanksgiving?

Please note this point, during CHRIST's final return with HIS Holy Angels, who is coming back to fight for?

For Christian Jews or Gentiles or for the 'GOD willing because of Abraham, ever existing nation of Israel', who will be surrounded at that time, by their ever envious enemies, in their 'last stand' and 'desperation', together as one, in order to 'eliminate' them from the 'face of this earth', in order to again solve their ever on going 'mess ups' and 'problems' here on earth, without repentance and GOD, that they are unable to solve themselves?

i am not against anyone nor siding anyone, but to everyone 'spiritual', to love one another and 'perceive' them wisely as Kingdom people. Apart from these, you are to be treated as 'outsiders'.

GOD bless everyone in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST.

 

[maxwel]

The prophets definitely did NOT understand everything they said or wrote.


Eph 3:5-6
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

 

[sltaylor]

When did they 'reject' and what have been said regarding them ever since by their own 'kinsmen' in humble and humility 'saved' faith themselves beginning from CHRIST and therefore according to the New Testament/Covenant?

They are the ones who did not reject CHRIST, and what did they 'testify' in 'whole' about their 'kinsmen', as a 'living witnesses' to those 'as follow' to them who have been chosen and placed?

For them to succeed or perish, even all of them?

What is your prayer for them, in thanksgiving to them and GOD regarding your Salvation?

Do you know first of all, your 'Salvation' came to you from those who have 'made to reject CHRIST' by GOD, foretold by the saying of the Old Testament/Covenant Prophets?

As Gentiles, knowing your 'adoption' by them, Apostle Paul said 'if' they remain in their unbelieve.

So what 'proud' Gentiles should do in faith knowledge, when their 'Salvation' actually came from them who have 'rejected' CHRIST?

What also did JESUS 'said' to HIS disciples to 'pray' for, written in the Gospel, in order to 'witness' to us, Jews or Gentiles who have been made 'equal', about what is Grace and Truth given, in order to 'abide' and 'bear much fruit'?

JESUS said for our 'witnessing' and 'prayer' through HIS disciples in the Gospel, to pray to GOD, for those who have been made to 'reject' by GOD, who have even today once again made as a nation of Israel, placing them again in their own given land and partially lost, but still standing even today and nobody can 'touch' them but GOD, that;

"To save Israel from all of it's troubles."

Repent to GOD of the Holy Scripture, and have you 'practiced' such a prayer for them, even today in thanksgiving?

Please note this point, during CHRIST's final return with HIS Holy Angels, who is coming back to fight for?

For Christian Jews or Gentiles or for the 'GOD willing because of Abraham, ever existing nation of Israel', who will be surrounded at that time, by their ever envious enemies, in their 'last stand' and 'desperation', together as one, in order to 'eliminate' them from the 'face of this earth', in order to again solve their ever on going 'mess ups' and 'problems' here on earth, without repentance and GOD, that they are unable to solve themselves?

i am not against anyone nor siding anyone, but to everyone 'spiritual', to love one another and 'perceive' them wisely as Kingdom people. Apart from these, you are to be treated as 'outsiders'.

GOD bless everyone in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST.

People, God did not reject his people Israel, they were cast off because of unbelief, but they will be grafted in if they don't continue in that Unbelief.

The prophets testified to that very thing. Moses, Hosea, for thru that
Very one, was testified, HE WILL CALL THEM HIS PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT HIS PEOPLE.

Christ came to make the two-one, so that in him they could both have access to God, so that the two of them should become one house of God, and in Christ there is no different in the two.
the two different people's have become one, and that IS the house of GOD, we are both under that new covenat.

Peter testifies to that very thing as us being God's house now, for he says, we are a chosen poeple, a royal preisthood, A HOLY NATION.
Peter addresses those who are now in Christ, as God's holy,chosen Nation, and according to scripture that could be no other THAN ISRAEL. THERE IS NO OTHER HOUSE GOD CHOOSES OUT OF THE NATIONS FOR HIMSELF.

Together, Israel and the Gentiles have become one house, in Christ, THAT'S WHAT SCRIPTURE SAYS.

I would never boast over a Jew that hasn't accepted Christ, Christ died for them, and I would pray that he does put them back in the tree!! But the beauty of Christ is this, no one is Chosen apart from him, but Anyone on the face of the EARTH becomes God's house. A house is where you live and in CHRIST, we become the temple of God, each as indivual living stones, who on the resurrection day will all come Togther to be his temple forever.

 

[Elin]

When did they 'reject' and what have been said regarding them ever since by their own 'kinsmen' in humble and humility 'saved' faith themselves beginning from CHRIST and therefore according to the New Testament/Covenant?

They are the ones who did not reject CHRIST, and what did they 'testify' in 'whole' about their 'kinsmen', as a 'living witnesses' to those 'as follow' to them who have been chosen and placed?

For them to succeed or perish, even all of them?

What is your prayer for them, in thanksgiving to them and GOD
regarding your Salvation?

Do you know first of all,
your 'Salvation' came to you from those who have 'made to reject CHRIST' by GOD, foretold by the saying of the Old Testament/Covenant Prophets?

As Gentiles, knowing your 'adoption' by them, Apostle Paul said 'if' they remain in their unbelieve.

So what 'proud'
Gentiles should do in faith knowledge, when their
'Salvation' actually came from them who have 'rejected' CHRIST?

The same can be said of Noah, Shem and Arphaxad.

 

[JesusIsAll]

The same

can be said

of Noah,

Shem

and Arphaxad.

How very true!

(Hey Floyd! Cain't do dat wit no goat milk, mercy in da codes!)

 

[Elin]

How very true!

(Hey Floyd! Cain't do dat wit no goat milk, mercy in da codes!)

Devil's gonna' get chu. . .

 

[JesusIsAll]

Devil's gonna' get chu. . .

Ah know'd it, mercy limpin 'roun da Kingdom Hall!

 

[weakness]

They didn't know the meaning of their own prophecies? I don't understand that Elin.
If they didn't know the meaning of what they were saying why does Paul say this: "It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you,*when they spoke of the things that have now been told you"
Paul says it was revealed to them. So I'm not understanding what you are saying.
They were addressing us a Zion and Israel in the old testament, that's the point I was trying to make.
When Isaiah prophesied about Zions future glory, and how all her children would be taught by the lord, he was talking about us.
And see:
Romans 9:25*"As he says in Hosea: "I will call them 'my people' who are not my people; and I will call her 'my loved one' who is not my loved one,"
Elin the reason Paul referenced Hosea and quoted that scripture is because through the revelation of Christ to him, Paul understood the grace to come to us as fulfilling what Hosea prophesied about.
The NT talks about the grace to come to us, but they use so many OT in their quotes showing us what those prophets were talking about when they were talking about the glories that follow.
I will plant*her for myself in the land; I will show my love to the one I called 'Not my loved one.' I will say to those called 'Not my people,' 'You are my people';*and they will say, 'You are my God.' "*
What if he did this to make the riches of his glory*known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory--**even us, whom he also called,*not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?*
*As he says in Hosea: "I will call them 'my people' who are not my people; and I will call her 'my loved one' who is not my loved one,"*
*and, "It will happen that in the very place where it was said to them, 'You are not my people,' they will be called 'sons of the living God.'*
He's quoting old testament scripture all over the place to justify our faith, and when he says they will be called sons of the living God, Elin that sounds like OT grace to me. God bless and thank you for responding. I humbly disagree with you on that though.[/QUOTE The prophets did say that in him the gentiles would trust, I think this speaks indirectly to us.Jesus first came to those jews who God first called, But they were blinded, at least some. Not all Israel is Israel.Those who are born of the Spirit of God ,thy are the children and Israel of God. And in Christ the wall of partition was destroyed between Jew and gentile, that all through faith might come to God. But first God made a last plea to Israel, But a veil of unbelief was on some hearts, which veil is done away in Christ. All those who through faith bear the fatness of the root ,which is Christ,has the spirit blood of his veins of God and are his children.Weather jew or gentile without faith it is impossible to please him. many jew received the messiah, but many's hearts were hardened through the deceitfulness of sin, and crucified our lord according to the manifold counsel of God. It was the falling away of the jews that brought the riches of God to the gentiles. If a righteous man sin he is a sinner,and vice versa. there is no free passes, many examples in the OT. Whatsoever is not of faith is sin.God gave them hundreds of opportunities to accept his love and provision ,but mostly they refused as he said they are stiff necked. It was all part of Gods plant that the gospel would be preached to the world, rebound and provoke the jews unto jealousy. So that all Israel would be saved( those of faith). If we are born of his Spirit we are Israel, and so are the Jews, but only IF. For we are also now inheritors of the covenants and promises. There is only one Church one faith and baptism, one Body and one God and father of all. One temple, one habitation of God through the Spirit And blindness will remain until they say blessed is he who comes in the name o f the lord and when they weep as for an only begotten son.I'm afraid God will have to bring the whole ungodly world down upon their head before this will happen overwhelmingly,when the Lord shall consume satan with the brightness of his coming. For the lord has set aside a remnant to serve him. Will he find faith on earth? Many are called but few are chosen. But those that know the lord will do exploits,and many will cleave unto them with flatteries and they will be tried. And the days will come and are here when one kills you thinks he does God a favor. God will send a strong delusion that they the (self righteous ) would believe a lie and be damned who love not the truth. But praise and glory to our great God who is only righteous and true, faithful, long suffering,till the last martyr spills his testimony and witnesses to the truth. Look unto this day, let our eye be single and full of light hope against hope to the end and the saving of our souls. May God's immeasurable love and grace keep us all from the fiery hour which is to try the world. He is our confidence our joy and crown, our sanctification and has been made unto us wisdom and glory. He is our life ,who else shall we trust. If the same spirit that raised Jesus from the dead he shall quicken our mortal bodies and the fruit of the Spirit will blossom, and God will be glorified in his temple, in us. Thank you God for your unspeakable love, Amen

 

[weakness]

If I understand the totality of your comment, then I agree.........except for a couple of points.

You said: ALL unbelievers are under the Old Covenant, not just the Jews.

With the establishment of God's Salvation Plan for mankind, the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, the New Covenant Grace, unbelievers are subject to this Covenant. Numerous Scriptures that show this to be true in my opinion.

Salvation is only possible through Jesus Christ............no other way. (I think this is what you are saying)

You said: Again, I am not a "replacement person". I don't believe that the Church replaced Israel.
Instead, I believe that Israel was always the Church, and remains so to this day.

The Nation of Israel was/is real and did/does exist. The Church is different from the Nation of Israel in my opinion. Must needs be, otherwise there would have been no need for a New Covenant, or the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Now, if you are saying that those who were found justified from the days before the establishment of the New Covenant Grace are part of the Church, in that they have received eternal life, then ok, but the Nation of Israel which encompasses all Jews who ever lived have not been found justified, and are not part of the Church in my opinion.

Within this definition.............all Israel (meaning all Jews who ever lived or are alive) will not inherit eternal life. Someone quoted Romans, Chapter 11, and this is a good example to quote, but must be understood as well........one particular little blurb from this Chapter is oft times overlooked or simply ignored........that being:

Romans 11:21 .) For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 .) Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 .) And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
24 .) For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

Those citizens of Israel who died in their unbelief............and those today who will die in their unbelief..........that being their rejecting of Jesus Christ will not be grafted back in if we are to believe what the Apostle said here.

Now, just my thoughts here...........but this is how I read Scripture, and folks can label it as they wish, it's fine with me.

First Covenant: Law -- God's chosen people were the Nation of Israel

New Covenant: Grace -- God's chosen people are the Church, the Bride of Christ bought and paid for by the precious blood of Jesus Christ and through Him is the ONLY way to eternal life.

And I think this is what you are saying...........except for a couple of points that I mentioned..........

​ we are not under the old covenant like the Jews! There has been a change in the law and also of necessity a change in the priesthood. yes outside of Christ there is condemnation ,but not the same, for we reject not tables of stone but a voice from heaven .Today, if you here his voice harden not you heart as in the day of provocation For what Glory did that covenant have in respect of the glory that remaineth.Don't we get it , we are his children by grace through faith Or is it just foolishness. The foolishness of god is wiser than man. For Jesus being found in the form of God thought it not robbery to be equal with God but, took upon him the form of a servant. And what man when he is done in the field will come in and say I'm done,NO he will gird himself and serve his Lord which is what is his duty. If you want to be like God be like him and be a servant to all, bear all things believe all things ,endure all things Love never fails Lord bess and keep us in his most Holy faith

 

[weakness]

Hey stephen, yeah sorry about that wording, I was not implying Israel was replaced sorry. In that case, I was specifically talking about on the grafting of the tree. He removed them so we could be put in. And you are correct. They will be grafted back in. It was prophesied by Moses God would make them envious through us, but once they see the salvation that is Christ, they will come home to the tree. The nation Israel is Israel, because of being a part of the tree, from Christ, the whole name is derived. They are not simply Israel by name, but they ARE Israel, by being a piece of the tree, which is Supported by Christ. The tree is the Israel of God, natural and grafted alike. There is no other holy, chosen nation that scripture Speaks of, there is only one, and the only Israel of God, is the whole community, supported by Christ. Yes we are Cgristains, but heaven isn't simply called heaven, there's still a state and City with members dwelling there. It's still Jerusalem, and it's still Israel, and now through Christ we may all be the family, and members, and citizens of God's Holy city, the one built by his hand, the one true promised land that Abraham and his seed were promised. Sorry for making it seem like I was saying we completely replaced Israel. I would never say that. All Israel will be saved for sure, all I meant was is that for now, we are on the tree and they are not. But they will be. But only after they are made envious of our reward, and I'm not sure they are envious, they still think we are wrong. This is what Paul quoted, and will come to pass, then they will be saved. The song of Moses:
Deuteronomy 32:21*"They made me jealous*by what is no god and angered me with their worthless idols.*I will make them envious by those who are not a people; I will make them angry by a nation that has no understanding."*[/QUOTEe Israel was expanded, the fulfilling of the gentiles is all Israel Jews and gentiles are all Israel, not some super salvation where the whole worldly nation is saved, this contradicts other scripture Israel received the oracles of God ,that set them apart for our example and God bless them , but they have the same choice of faith and believing like us all. I might get in hot water over this ,but i think it true.

 

[sltaylor]

They didn't know the meaning of their own prophecies? I don't understand that Elin.
If they didn't know the meaning of what they were saying why does Paul say this: "It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you,*when they spoke of the things that have now been told you"
Paul says it was revealed to them. So I'm not understanding what you are saying.
They were addressing us a Zion and Israel in the old testament, that's the point I was trying to make.
When Isaiah prophesied about Zions future glory, and how all her children would be taught by the lord, he was talking about us.
And see:
Romans 9:25*"As he says in Hosea: "I will call them 'my people' who are not my people; and I will call her 'my loved one' who is not my loved one,"
Elin the reason Paul referenced Hosea and quoted that scripture is because through the revelation of Christ to him, Paul understood the grace to come to us as fulfilling what Hosea prophesied about.
The NT talks about the grace to come to us, but they use so many OT in their quotes showing us what those prophets were talking about when they were talking about the glories that follow.
I will plant*her for myself in the land; I will show my love to the one I called 'Not my loved one.' I will say to those called 'Not my people,' 'You are my people';*and they will say, 'You are my God.' "*
What if he did this to make the riches of his glory*known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory--**even us, whom he also called,*not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?*
*As he says in Hosea: "I will call them 'my people' who are not my people; and I will call her 'my loved one' who is not my loved one,"*
*and, "It will happen that in the very place where it was said to them, 'You are not my people,' they will be called 'sons of the living God.'*
He's quoting old testament scripture all over the place to justify our faith, and when he says they will be called sons of the living God, Elin that sounds like OT grace to me. God bless and thank you for responding. I humbly disagree with you on that though.[/QUOTE The prophets did say that in him the gentiles would trust, I think this speaks indirectly to us.Jesus first came to those jews who God first called, But they were blinded, at least some. Not all Israel is Israel.Those who are born of the Spirit of God ,thy are the children and Israel of God. And in Christ the wall of partition was destroyed between Jew and gentile, that all through faith might come to God. But first God made a last plea to Israel, But a veil of unbelief was on some hearts, which veil is done away in Christ. All those who through faith bear the fatness of the root ,which is Christ,has the spirit blood of his veins of God and are his children.Weather jew or gentile without faith it is impossible to please him. many jew received the messiah, but many's hearts were hardened through the deceitfulness of sin, and crucified our lord according to the manifold counsel of God. It was the falling away of the jews that brought the riches of God to the gentiles. If a righteous man sin he is a sinner,and vice versa. there is no free passes, many examples in the OT. Whatsoever is not of faith is sin.God gave them hundreds of opportunities to accept his love and provision ,but mostly they refused as he said they are stiff necked. It was all part of Gods plant that the gospel would be preached to the world, rebound and provoke the jews unto jealousy. So that all Israel would be saved( those of faith). If we are born of his Spirit we are Israel, and so are the Jews, but only IF. For we are also now inheritors of the covenants and promises. There is only one Church one faith and baptism, one Body and one God and father of all. One temple, one habitation of God through the Spirit And blindness will remain until they say blessed is he who comes in the name o f the lord and when they weep as for an only begotten son.I'm afraid God will have to bring the whole ungodly world down upon their head before this will happen overwhelmingly,when the Lord shall consume satan with the brightness of his coming. For the lord has set aside a remnant to serve him. Will he find faith on earth? Many are called but few are chosen. But those that know the lord will do exploits,and many will cleave unto them with flatteries and they will be tried. And the days will come and are here when one kills you thinks he does God a favor. God will send a strong delusion that they the (self righteous ) would believe a lie and be damned who love not the truth. But praise and glory to our great God who is only righteous and true, faithful, long suffering,till the last martyr spills his testimony and witnesses to the truth. Look unto this day, let our eye be single and full of light hope against hope to the end and the saving of our souls. May God's immeasurable love and grace keep us all from the fiery hour which is to try the world. He is our confidence our joy and crown, our sanctification and has been made unto us wisdom and glory. He is our life ,who else shall we trust. If the same spirit that raised Jesus from the dead he shall quicken our mortal bodies and the fruit of the Spirit will blossom, and God will be glorified in his temple, in us. Thank you God for your unspeakable love, Amen

Amen! Yes, brother i love your understanding! Now, back to the OP. what were they addressing us as?
The answer is Zion and Israel.

When you see Paul saying that the Jerusalem that is above is free and she is our mother, he quotes Isaiah 54. The title leading into that very chapter is THE FUTURE GLORY OF ZION.

Peter said, we are his holy, chosen nation.

And to be clear, I'm not saying that the jews are not either! We are all grafted into the tree that is Christ, as long as they come to him, and together are one house, the house of God. JESUS came to make the two one.

ISAIAH 54 IS the key, in Gal. 4 Paul says she is our mother. Read that chapter. You will see God talking to the heavenly Jerusalem and describing what her children will do.

Paul says we have come to Mt. ZION AS well, the heavenly Jerusalem.

Three different pillars of the Faith, Isaiah, Paul, and Peter tried to make us see that we in Christ are the Israel of God.

EZEKIEL 34, the shepherds and the sheep, you will see Jesus talking in the first person describing how he will gather his flock, and verse 12 says he will do that on a day of clouds and darkness. That is a reference to the prophecy of Eze. 34 happening on the day of the Lord, in which, the same darkness is referenced in MATTHEW 24 right before he sends his Angels out to gather his elect from the ends of the Earth.

 

[weakness]

According to the written Holy Scripture, what is CHRIST's definition of a 'Gentile'?

Can you handle them in 'humble and humility', 'as it is written'?

​Before Gentiles were without the covenant s and promises but in Christ are not. There is no difference ,Grace by faith all are made partakers .

 

[Ukorin]

The root of the confusion is in thinking "Israel" to exclusively refer to a physical nation and genetic people.
Israel is a name with a meaning. It is a spiritual entity. It is those who "triumph with God".

There is a group that has usurped the name,
but it belongs only to those who "triumph with God".
The victory is in and through Christ. Christ IS Israel. And we "triumph with God" if we are in Christ.

Most Asia Minor and Middle Easterners have as much Israelite blood as Jews... and their religions are basicly the same. They are both twisted versions of God's Word put to legalistic/mystic practice.

The Israel you read about in the news and see on tv is not the Israel of the Bible. The war between the Muslims and Jews is not a war of Jacob and Esau or Israel and Canaan... it is closer to a war between the northern and southern tribes... but all of which have rejected the True God, because they reject His Son, and have lost sonship.

Who are the chosen seed of Israel's race? Those ransomed from the fall.
Hail Him who saves you by His Grace.

The throne belongs to Christ, and is in the Jerusalem above. The one below is a child of Hagar, and a child of slavery... not a legitimate child.
We are children of Sarah. The legitimate sons, and co-heirs with The Son.


I support the modern nation of Israel in it's right to exist and defend itself, and root for them (generally) when a conflict occurs.
But, I rebuke those who think there is an added blessing to people and/or nations who give them weapons and money.
The blessing is only to those who give them the Gospel of Jesus Christ. That is the only way to truly support and bless Israel (both true Israel, and modern Israel).

 

[sltaylor]

Hey stephen, yeah sorry about that wording, I was not implying Israel was replaced sorry. In that case, I was specifically talking about on the grafting of the tree. He removed them so we could be put in. And you are correct. They will be grafted back in. It was prophesied by Moses God would make them envious through us, but once they see the salvation that is Christ, they will come home to the tree. The nation Israel is Israel, because of being a part of the tree, from Christ, the whole name is derived. They are not simply Israel by name, but they ARE Israel, by being a piece of the tree, which is Supported by Christ. The tree is the Israel of God, natural and grafted alike. There is no other holy, chosen nation that scripture Speaks of, there is only one, and the only Israel of God, is the whole community, supported by Christ. Yes we are Cgristains, but heaven isn't simply called heaven, there's still a state and City with members dwelling there. It's still Jerusalem, and it's still Israel, and now through Christ we may all be the family, and members, and citizens of God's Holy city, the one built by his hand, the one true promised land that Abraham and his seed were promised. Sorry for making it seem like I was saying we completely replaced Israel. I would never say that. All Israel will be saved for sure, all I meant was is that for now, we are on the tree and they are not. But they will be. But only after they are made envious of our reward, and I'm not sure they are envious, they still think we are wrong. This is what Paul quoted, and will come to pass, then they will be saved. The song of Moses:
Deuteronomy 32:21*"They made me jealous*by what is no god and angered me with their worthless idols.*I will make them envious by those who are not a people; I will make them angry by a nation that has no understanding."*[/QUOTEe Israel was expanded, the fulfilling of the gentiles is all Israel Jews and gentiles are all Israel, not some super salvation where the whole worldly nation is saved, this contradicts other scripture Israel received the oracles of God ,that set them apart for our example and God bless them , but they have the same choice of faith and believing like us all. I might get in hot water over this ,but i think it true.

Not in hot water with Christ brother. I've seen that through God breathed Scripture from the day he saved me! What I whisper in your ear, proclaim from the roof tops. Well done brother! I love you in Christ, and for your courage. This message is not received very well. But I totally know what you are talking about!

 

[weakness]

When did they 'reject' and what have been said regarding them ever since by their own 'kinsmen' in humble and humility 'saved' faith themselves beginning from CHRIST and therefore according to the New Testament/Covenant?

They are the ones who did not reject CHRIST, and what did they 'testify' in 'whole' about their 'kinsmen', as a 'living witnesses' to those 'as follow' to them who have been chosen and placed?

For them to succeed or perish, even all of them?

What is your prayer for them, in thanksgiving to them and GOD regarding your Salvation?

Do you know first of all, your 'Salvation' came to you from those who have 'made to reject CHRIST' by GOD, foretold by the saying of the Old Testament/Covenant Prophets?

As Gentiles, knowing your 'adoption' by them, Apostle Paul said 'if' they remain in their unbelieve.

So what 'proud' Gentiles should do in faith knowledge, when their 'Salvation' actually came from them who have 'rejected' CHRIST?

What also did JESUS 'said' to HIS disciples to 'pray' for, written in the Gospel, in order to 'witness' to us, Jews or Gentiles who have been made 'equal', about what is Grace and Truth given, in order to 'abide' and 'bear much fruit'?

JESUS said for our 'witnessing' and 'prayer' through HIS disciples in the Gospel, to pray to GOD, for those who have been made to 'reject' by GOD, who have even today once again made as a nation of Israel, placing them again in their own given land and partially lost, but still standing even today and nobody can 'touch' them but GOD, that;

"To save Israel from all of it's troubles."

Repent to GOD of the Holy Scripture, and have you 'practiced' such a prayer for them, even today in thanksgiving?

Please note this point, during CHRIST's final return with HIS Holy Angels, who is coming back to fight for?

For Christian Jews or Gentiles or for the 'GOD willing because of Abraham, ever existing nation of Israel', who will be surrounded at that time, by their ever envious enemies, in their 'last stand' and 'desperation', together as one, in order to 'eliminate' them from the 'face of this earth', in order to again solve their ever on going 'mess ups' and 'problems' here on earth, without repentance and GOD, that they are unable to solve themselves?

i am not against anyone nor siding anyone, but to everyone 'spiritual', to love one another and 'perceive' them wisely as Kingdom people. Apart from these, you are to be treated as 'outsiders'.

GOD bless everyone in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST.

God didn't make the Jews reject Christ! It was there hard hearts, and God used it to further the Gospel. But we should take heed and fear least we fall also after the same example of UNBELEIF. God has spoken that there is none righteous no not one.God loves Jews and gentiles and would have all come to the knowledge of the truth.But it is God that gives the increase

 

[sltaylor]

That was the whole reason behind this thread.

Peter said we are receiving the goal of our faith, salvation. IN saying that, he said the prophets of the OT, whom they studied and who had also predicted the sufferings and coming of Christ, we're talking about the salvation we receive thru Christ.

The ONLY 'people' the old testament prophets talked about receiving protection, redemption, and protection was Zion and Israel.

And as Peter said, not I, they were talking about our salvation we recieve in Christ, for Christ came to FULFILL THESE VERY PROPHETS. And not just fulfill them by his suffering and coming, but in the redemption and future Glory these very prophets who predicted his coming were talking about.

 

[sltaylor]

Sorry let me correct a sentence above, it should read: protection, redemption and deliverance....sorry.
Salvation incorporates those three meanings.