Speak Your Mind.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
5,779
2,262
113
I've been watching the events surrounding the Kieth Gill GameStop short squeeze unfold.

It's more exciting than political discussions for sure.

A little guy as average as you or me complete with bad haircuts and poor wardrobe choices and low prices....even has a bad, low-brow accent.

Has gotten fed up with the unfairness of market manipulation by multi billion/multi Trillion dollar traders who are literally screwing over small retail investors so often that they don't consider it a crime anymore. However when one of these retail investors does anything resembling what the "big boys" do they want the full weight of the government to investigate every aspect of the poor guy's life.

So....Keith Gill...AKA RoaringKitty is exacting some revenge by exercising options that the brokerages do not have the stock in account. And it's going to cost these brokerages in the billions of dollars to supply. The SEC is trying to find grounds to investigate but so far is coming up empty.

It seems they did NOT learn anything from the last time he did this.
 

Burn1986

Active member
Mar 4, 2024
682
154
43
Predestination and elect/non-elect themes promote laziness and complacency. To gain higher ground in God, there is a measure of breaking out of the norm/flow of things and breaking predestination/ elect barriers that hold us back.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
12,999
5,207
113
No, he is saying repenting is for the forgiveness of sin. Water baptism is symbolic of the Holy Spirit baptism which takes place after repenting. Dying with Jesus and being resurrected with Jesus. Going under the water symbolic of going into the grave, and coming up again symbolic of Jesus's resurrection. (see my example of how this passage is misunderstood above)
Where does the bible teach that baptism is symbolic ? That's like saying " actually taking communion is symbolic " when taking communion actually has a meaning why a Christian does it


‭1 Corinthians 11:23-30 KJV‬
[23] For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: [24] and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. [25] After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. [26] For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come. [27] Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. [28] But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. [29] For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. [30] For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

If my argument is now " communion is just symbolic it doesn't have the significance it says it doesn't actually mean his when we do it " then I'm working against faith that's trying to teach my why I take of the bread and cup in his name remembering his sacrifice for my sins . Baptism is the same way to say " water baptism " really creates an argument that doesn't exist baptism has always Involved water . It did when Jesus was baptized and it was when they were getting baptized who believed in his name afterwards there's one baptism. It happens to involve water. There isn't " water baptism " and spiritual baptism " there's just baptism in Jesus name for remission of sins and

It's accomplished in water as designed by God for believers of this truth

‭1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV‬
[3] For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; [4] and that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures
So they can partake of it by faith

‭Romans 6:3-7, 10-11 KJV‬
[3] Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? [4] Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. [5] For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: [6] knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. [7] For he that is dead is freed from sin.
[10] For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. [11] Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Baptism is as symbolic as everything The gospel teaches us to do and we'll explains the meaning . When obedience becomes symbolic faith can't work because faith is hearing what's being taught then believing it and acting upon that belief created not by us but by what's actually taught in scripture regarding a subject like baptism or communion or really any isolated subject . Baptism really isn't even a question because it's so thoroughly taught. It's the equivalent of circumcision in the ot based upon faith in Christ dying and being raised up again that's the only reason a person gets baptized because they believe Jesus died for thier sins was buried , and raised again

‭Colossians 2:10-13 KJV‬
[10] And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: [11] in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: [12] buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. [13] And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;


Jesus was baptized without sin for remission of our sins that's why we get baptized in his name who died from our sins , was buried and raised up again without sin. When the doctrine becomes symbolism nothing makes sense or has any faith in it

‭Galatians 3:27-29 KJV‬
[27] For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. [28] There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. [29] And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

If we accept the simplicity that everyone was baptized in Jesus name after he rose up then the doctrine makes sense and builds faith . Why did I get baptized in Jesus name who died for my sins ? Because I believe the gospel nothing else leads there but faith in hearing Jesus died for my sins and rose again for my justification . There's a reason they teach so clearly about baptism in the epistles it's not symbolism it's doctrine were meant to hear about and believe then act upon

But I suppose there are always other opinions and interpretations that baptism in " water " isn't the right baptism ......it's just thats what they all did before Jesus died and after he rose so I'd have to believe the bible doesn't get baptism and those who kept baptizing in water like Stephen and Peter didn't understand like people today who tell me water baptism is not baptism. It's really clear they baptized in water I don't think I'll ever come to a conclusion water isn't involved in baptism
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
9,221
4,023
113
mywebsite.us
The words 'baptize' and 'baptism' (and variants) in the Bible are not always tied to water. You must always remember that the literal meaning of each of those words is some form of "to immerse" - in what must be determined from context.

In terms of being a church ordinance, baptsm and communion are in fact symbolic; albeit, actions tied to the performance of them are certainly significant.

The fact that they symbolize something makes them symbolic by definition.

However, in no way does that take anything away from the importance and significance of it.
 

Burn1986

Active member
Mar 4, 2024
682
154
43
Where does the bible teach that baptism is symbolic ? That's like saying " actually taking communion is symbolic " when taking communion actually has a meaning why a Christian does it


‭1 Corinthians 11:23-30 KJV‬
[23] For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: [24] and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. [25] After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. [26] For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come. [27] Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. [28] But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. [29] For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. [30] For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

If my argument is now " communion is just symbolic it doesn't have the significance it says it doesn't actually mean his when we do it " then I'm working against faith that's trying to teach my why I take of the bread and cup in his name remembering his sacrifice for my sins . Baptism is the same way to say " water baptism " really creates an argument that doesn't exist baptism has always Involved water . It did when Jesus was baptized and it was when they were getting baptized who believed in his name afterwards there's one baptism. It happens to involve water. There isn't " water baptism " and spiritual baptism " there's just baptism in Jesus name for remission of sins and

It's accomplished in water as designed by God for believers of this truth

‭1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV‬
[3] For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; [4] and that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures
So they can partake of it by faith

‭Romans 6:3-7, 10-11 KJV‬
[3] Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? [4] Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. [5] For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: [6] knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. [7] For he that is dead is freed from sin.
[10] For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. [11] Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Baptism is as symbolic as everything The gospel teaches us to do and we'll explains the meaning . When obedience becomes symbolic faith can't work because faith is hearing what's being taught then believing it and acting upon that belief created not by us but by what's actually taught in scripture regarding a subject like baptism or communion or really any isolated subject . Baptism really isn't even a question because it's so thoroughly taught. It's the equivalent of circumcision in the ot based upon faith in Christ dying and being raised up again that's the only reason a person gets baptized because they believe Jesus died for thier sins was buried , and raised again

‭Colossians 2:10-13 KJV‬
[10] And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: [11] in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: [12] buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. [13] And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;


Jesus was baptized without sin for remission of our sins that's why we get baptized in his name who died from our sins , was buried and raised up again without sin. When the doctrine becomes symbolism nothing makes sense or has any faith in it

‭Galatians 3:27-29 KJV‬
[27] For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. [28] There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. [29] And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

If we accept the simplicity that everyone was baptized in Jesus name after he rose up then the doctrine makes sense and builds faith . Why did I get baptized in Jesus name who died for my sins ? Because I believe the gospel nothing else leads there but faith in hearing Jesus died for my sins and rose again for my justification . There's a reason they teach so clearly about baptism in the epistles it's not symbolism it's doctrine were meant to hear about and believe then act upon

But I suppose there are always other opinions and interpretations that baptism in " water " isn't the right baptism ......it's just thats what they all did before Jesus died and after he rose so I'd have to believe the bible doesn't get baptism and those who kept baptizing in water like Stephen and Peter didn't understand like people today who tell me water baptism is not baptism. It's really clear they baptized in water I don't think I'll ever come to a conclusion water isn't involved in baptism
Again, baptism symbolizes Jesus’s death burial and resurrection, regardless if the Bible doesn’t SPELL IT OUT FUR YOU. My gosh. Maybe I need to ask my wife if I can go to work in the morning. I have never in m life seen such whiney babies about everything. You shouldn’t even be worrying about to this point, and be moving on talking about bigger things spiritually.
 
Jun 1, 2024
17
6
3
The fact that they symbolize something makes them symbolic by definition.

However, in no way does that take anything away from the importance and significance of it.
Good point. I think it's important to know the symbolism of what we do, and the importance of why we do it. Unfortunately, most people (I may, or may not be guilty of this myself...) only lean towards one way or the other, instead of looking at the whole picture. A lesson just about all of us can learn.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,391
6,642
113
Where does the bible teach that baptism is symbolic ? That's like saying " actually taking communion is symbolic " when taking communion actually has a meaning why a Christian does it
Well, if you are going to provide the Scriptural evidence of the symbolism of these events, then all I can do is smile.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,391
6,642
113
However, in no way does that take anything away from the importance and significance of it.
Exactly! Water baptism is important for the very symbolic witness it provides to the world and to the Church!

Communion is symbolic because when we practice Communion; we DO NOT actually drink the blood of Jesus or eat His actual flesh. Now, I know the Catholics believe we do, but I don't put much stock in their teachings, so......

As well, almost all the Church today completely ignores Jesus teaching us to celebrate "feet washing." Even though Jesus told us to. Why? Because people say "well, Scripture does not say where the Disciples practiced this." My response? Show me where Scripture says the Disciples were water baptized. Show me where Scripture explicitly states "Holy Trinity."

Because Scripture does not record ALL events that occurred, does not mean they didn't.

John, Chapter 13:

4He riseth from supper, and laid aside his garments; and took a towel, and girded himself.

5After that he poureth water into a bason, and began to wash the disciples' feet, and to wipe them with the towel wherewith he was girded.

6Then cometh he to Simon Peter: and Peter saith unto him, Lord, dost thou wash my feet?

7Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter.

8Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me.

9Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head.

10Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.

11For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean.

12So after he had washed their feet, and had taken his garments, and was set down again, he said unto them, Know ye what I have done to you?

13Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.

14If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.

15For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.

16Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.


17If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them.


This is clearly in Scripture, and is the same commandment Jesus stated towards both water baptism and Communion, Alas, folks only want to celebrate what their Denomination/Group teaches though, and NOT what Jesus clearly said to do.

(go figure)
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,391
6,642
113
You can choose to enter this portal



portal 11.png

...or,,,,well, you know
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
12,999
5,207
113
Again, baptism symbolizes Jesus’s death burial and resurrection, regardless if the Bible doesn’t SPELL IT OUT FUR YOU. My gosh. Maybe I need to ask my wife if I can go to work in the morning. I have never in m life seen such whiney babies about everything. You shouldn’t even be worrying about to this point, and be moving on talking about bigger things spiritually.
It’s rejecting what the Bible does spell out for a believer telling us what baptism is and how it relates to remission of our sins in Jesus name who died for our sins and we heard and believed so then we chose to partake of this truth we now believe

baptism according to scripture . I’m not saying according to you or anyone else but in scripture it’s a basic and plain doctrine that is well explained by the apostles in the epistles .

Symbolism is not what is spelled out lol that’s the issue I’m raising I believe what’s actually taught by the scriptures is right. What is spelled out
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
12,999
5,207
113
Well, if you are going to provide the Scriptural evidence of the symbolism of these events, then all I can do is smile.
Huh ?

this is why Christian’s today talk about the doctrine called baptism and think it happens to be done in water

“Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:35-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬

It’s an act of faith believing Jesus is who he claimed to be
 

Burn1986

Active member
Mar 4, 2024
682
154
43
It’s rejecting what the Bible does spell out for a believer telling us what baptism is and how it relates to remission of our sins in Jesus name who died for our sins and we heard and believed so then we chose to partake of this truth we now believe

baptism according to scripture . I’m not saying according to you or anyone else but in scripture it’s a basic and plain doctrine that is well explained by the apostles in the epistles .

Symbolism is not what is spelled out lol that’s the issue I’m raising I believe what’s actually taught by the scriptures is right. What is spelled out
But, what else could it symbolize - death, burial, and resurrection? And if we’ve already gone through it, then who cares, at this point?
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,391
6,642
113
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬

It’s an act of faith believing Jesus is who he claimed to be
Yes. And this Scripture shows that believing is the saving part and not baptizing in water. The last sentence shows clearly thus.


"but he that believeth not shall be damned" It does not read "but he that is baptized not shall be damned"

Which is why "repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of sin" means when one repents their sins are forgiven and they are being baptized for that reason, not to have their sins forgiven. The forgiveness of sin comes before baptism in all cases.

Repenting is the act of faith of believing Jesus is who He says He is. Water baptism is the symbolic work of being buried with Jesus and being raised with Jesus.


The only baptism that brings salvation is the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Scripture is very clear on that.

Water baptism is a "work." No work can ever provide salvation, ever. Scripture is very clear on that as well.
 

Burn1986

Active member
Mar 4, 2024
682
154
43
Yes. And this Scripture shows that believing is the saving part and not baptizing in water. The last sentence shows clearly thus.


"but he that believeth not shall be damned" It does not read "but he that is baptized not shall be damned"

Which is why "repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of sin" means when one repents their sins are forgiven and they are being baptized for that reason, not to have their sins forgiven. The forgiveness of sin comes before baptism in all cases.

Repenting is the act of faith of believing Jesus is who He says He is. Water baptism is the symbolic work of being buried with Jesus and being raised with Jesus.


The only baptism that brings salvation is the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Scripture is very clear on that.

Water baptism is a "work." No work can ever provide salvation, ever. Scripture is very clear on that as well.
You know, salvation doesn’t have to be an exact method. I even put down and example in another thread, but there are documented cases where people have never heard of Jesus and have called out His name. Later, they told their story. We’ve all had different salvation experiences.
 

Burn1986

Active member
Mar 4, 2024
682
154
43

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,391
6,642
113
You know, salvation doesn’t have to be an exact method. I even put down and example in another thread, but there are documented cases where people have never heard of Jesus and have called out His name. Later, they told their story. We’ve all had different salvation experiences.
Scripture is clear concerning salvation. So, I do not believe your example. It goes directly against Scripture.

Romans, Chapters 10

9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

I will go with Scripture on this........
 

Burn1986

Active member
Mar 4, 2024
682
154
43

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,391
6,642
113
Did you figure that out all on your own? How long does sanctification take? A long time. We’ve got a whole lot of flesh in the way.
Sanctification happens when one or more sanctified believers lay hands on and pray over a saved believe Sanctification is simply the receiving of the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit. This is shown by the Apostle Paul in Acts. Once one receives the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit, one can pray for understanding of Scripture and the Holy Spirit will reveal the "spiritual" understanding of Scripture which is the "meat" of the Word Paul spoke of.

Scripture teaches that God is a spirit and to worship Him we must worship Him in "spirit" and truth. The Truth of Scripture comes from the spiritual understanding of Scripture.