-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
zibledi di maga rontipatica mosedimo lata rushicka.
I spoke in tongues ok and I was a Pentacostal for 6 months. Now what does this mean is there a translator here. has this inspired the Holy Spirit in anyone, have I spoken a prophecy or something ?what language is this. This is a real question and yes what you are reading is an example of the Pentacostal gift of the tongues. If no one here can translate this what Godly purpose is this t me or anyone ?
I spoke in tongues ok and I was a Pentacostal for 6 months. Now what does this mean is there a translator here. has this inspired the Holy Spirit in anyone, have I spoken a prophecy or something ?what language is this. This is a real question and yes what you are reading is an example of the Pentacostal gift of the tongues. If no one here can translate this what Godly purpose is this t me or anyone ?
The Holy Spirit is the One interceding....
for the believer.
okay?
Romans 8:26
Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words.
stenagmos: a groaning
Original Word: στεναγμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: stenagmos
Phonetic Spelling: (sten-ag-mos')
Short Definition: a groaning
Definition: a groaning, sighing.
Cognate: 4726 stenagmós – groaning (sighing), especially brought on by circumstances creating great pressure. See 4727 (stenazō).
no tongues there...no language, no words. nothing but deep sighing AT MOST.
no tongues.
really? since it's the Holy Spirit interceding for the confused; tired; under pressure believer, how was it lost?
that's ridiculous.
well considering it's not the believer doing any interceding it's the Holy Spirit interceding FOR the believer to the Father, i suggest your friend needs to stop playing games....
for the believer.
okay?
Romans 8:26
Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words.
stenagmos: a groaning
Original Word: στεναγμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: stenagmos
Phonetic Spelling: (sten-ag-mos')
Short Definition: a groaning
Definition: a groaning, sighing.
Cognate: 4726 stenagmós – groaning (sighing), especially brought on by circumstances creating great pressure. See 4727 (stenazō).
no tongues there...no language, no words. nothing but deep sighing AT MOST.
no tongues.
really? since it's the Holy Spirit interceding for the confused; tired; under pressure believer, how was it lost?
that's ridiculous.
well considering it's not the believer doing any interceding it's the Holy Spirit interceding FOR the believer to the Father, i suggest your friend needs to stop playing games....
The belief that tongues has ceased is from the prophecy of 1 Corinthians 13. The problem is simple error. That which is perfect will come and than which is in part will be done away. The Cessationist assume that "that which is perfect" is the Bible. The problem is that Cessationist assume that only the Bible can be perfect. Of course the Bible is perfect (in it's original form), but the Bible is not the only thing that is perect! The Bible says "Every good and perfect gift" comes from the Father. "Every" means more than one! That means that many things can be "that which is perfect."
who ever said ONLY the Bible is perfect?
Paul said when THAT (a thing....not a PERSON) is perfect has come.
make it the mature church if you want to.
that doesn't happen without the complete Revelation of the Witness of Jesus Christ, presumably when we start relying on THE WORD, since it is able to accomplish everything to make the man perfect....
teleios: having reached its end, i.e. complete, by ext. perfect
Original Word: τέλειος, α, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: teleios
Phonetic Spelling: (tel'-i-os)
Short Definition: perfect, full-grown
Definition: perfect, (a) complete in all its parts, (b) full grown, of full age, (c) specially of the completeness of Christian character.
Cognate: 5046 téleios (an adjective, derived from 5056 /télos, "consummated goal") – mature (consummated) from going through the necessary stages to reach the end-goal, i.e. developed into a consummating completion by fulfilling the necessary process (spiritual journey). See 5056 (telos).
[This root (tel-) means "reaching the end (aim)." It is well-illustrated with the old pirate's telescope, unfolding (extending out) one stage at a time to function at full-strength (capacity effectiveness).]
2 Timothy 3
All Scripture is God-Breathed
10But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience, 11Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me. 12Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 13But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Paul said when THAT (a thing....not a PERSON) is perfect has come.
make it the mature church if you want to.
that doesn't happen without the complete Revelation of the Witness of Jesus Christ, presumably when we start relying on THE WORD, since it is able to accomplish everything to make the man perfect....
teleios: having reached its end, i.e. complete, by ext. perfect
Original Word: τέλειος, α, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: teleios
Phonetic Spelling: (tel'-i-os)
Short Definition: perfect, full-grown
Definition: perfect, (a) complete in all its parts, (b) full grown, of full age, (c) specially of the completeness of Christian character.
Cognate: 5046 téleios (an adjective, derived from 5056 /télos, "consummated goal") – mature (consummated) from going through the necessary stages to reach the end-goal, i.e. developed into a consummating completion by fulfilling the necessary process (spiritual journey). See 5056 (telos).
[This root (tel-) means "reaching the end (aim)." It is well-illustrated with the old pirate's telescope, unfolding (extending out) one stage at a time to function at full-strength (capacity effectiveness).]
2 Timothy 3
All Scripture is God-Breathed
10But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience, 11Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me. 12Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 13But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
A
An interesting article on Speaking in Tongues:
What is Speaking in Tongues? A Biblical Analysis
Many years ago I visited a church while out of town. At the time I was unaware that it was a charismatic church. When the church services started, it was quite clear that they believed in the gift of tongues. I was urged to speak in tongues and to “give it up” to the Spirit. I needed to speak in tongues to be “baptized with the Holy Ghost.“ As I prayed over this and pondered whether I should try and speak in tongues, nothing happened. I even contemplated faking it. I felt somewhat ostracized because I actually never did speak in tongues. I was praying at the time that, “God, if you want me to speak in tongues, please enable me by the Spirit to do so.“ Nothing ever came out and I felt completely inadequate compared to the other believers who were speaking in tongues that I didn’t understand. There were several speaking at the same time as they were dancing and jumping up and down. To me, it was a little frightening and confusing.
The tongues I heard that night were completely unintelligible and it was an exercise in futility for me to try and understand what was being said. And no one was interpreting the tongues either which made it even worse. The whole assembly, minus me, was in a near frenzy and they were completely lost in their actions.
I can remember reading about tongues in Old Testament times where foreign tongues were not a good sign for Israel at all (Walvoord and Zuck 1984, 539). Foreign tongues were usually a warning to the nation. When I looked at the New Testament, what I found was that tongues are not a babbling of words, but that of a known language. This language was intelligible to those who spoke that language and understood by them.
Speaking in Tongues in the New Testament
The first place that speaking in tongues occur in the New Testament was in Acts 2:1-4: “When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.” The word tongues has a literal translation in the Greek of “languages”. This means that the tongues that were being spoken were those of a known language. The tongues were words with specific meaning and not just babbling. This is clarified in Acts 2:7-11, “Utterly amazed, they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans? Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language? Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome, (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!”
So those who heard these tongues or languages were languages that were known and that the believers may not have known how to speak. That was a miracle but the miracle was not for the believers benefit but were a sign for the unbelievers (I Cor. 14:22). These verses were a sign that God used to signify that the Gentiles were receiving salvation to those who did not believe (Walvoord and Zuck 1984, 382).
So clearly, speaking in tongues in the New Testament church were tongues of known languages and not unknown languages or unintelligible sounds. Since many in Judea were bilingual and some even trilingual, it’s not really that surprising that there were many languages being spoken (Walvoord and Zuck 1984, 357). They were praising God in different tongues or languages to give evidence for unbelievers that God was at work in more ethnic groups than just the Jews. This validated the fulfillment of Joel chapter two to the Jews as well (Walvoord and Zuck 1984, 408).
Speaking in Tongues and the Baptism of the Holy Spirit
Acts 10:44-46 also has a reference to tongues: “While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues (literally, languages) and praising God.” Notice that the Holy Spirit was poured out and they were not baptized into the Holy Spirit or received a baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Speaking in tongues is a sign for unbelievers and not what some charismatic churches claim as the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Nowhere in the New Testament is it written that they spoke in tongues and were baptized in the Holy Spirit. For believers, the receiving of the Holy Spirit is a one time event and it is not a sign of being filled up by the Spirit or being baptized into the Holy Spirit. It is precisely for the reason of validating God’s acceptance of the Gentiles to the Jews and this acceptance by God for all people was at a specific time in history (Walvoord and Zuck 1984, 408).
Tongues: A Sign for Unbelievers
Biblical scholars agree that in Acts 19:1-7 and elsewhere that these verses clearly indicate that tongues were intended “to overcome unbelief” (Walvoord and Zuck 1984, 409). They were specifically for unbelievers and to validate Paul’s message and to overcome the listener’s unbelief (Walvoord and Zuck 1984, 408, 409).
Even at the risk of offending some, this reminds me of snake handlers. Some churches take one text out of context and make it a pretext and sadly, the worship is more centered on the gift of tongues or the handling of snakes than it is with Christ being the center of worship. Jesus Christ should always be the center of all worship services and never any gift since Paul tells us not to exalt in any gifts of the Spirit since they come from God anyway.
Taking Text out of Context
Here is a personal note on the gift of tongues and the twisting of scriptures. Sadly, many denominations or churches do not take problematic scriptures and place them against all the scriptures relating to a particular subject to discover the proper context to see whether it is biblically sound or not. This is what is meant by “rightly dividing the Word of God” (II Tim 2:15) and “scripture is of no private interpretation” (II Pet. 1:2). A sound principle is that if there is a problematic scripture or verse; take all the other scriptures that relate to this subject and place them all against the one scripture or scriptures to bring clarity to the subject. If we still can not decide its meaning, then this might be God’s prerogative alone to know about and we have no business trying to inject or infer meaning when God is not clear on the subject. If God has not plainly revealed its meaning in scripture or it is not clarified by other scripture, then this is not revelation from God intended for us and should not be taken as such. Revelation from men is highly questionable and not like the inerrant Word which is infallible. If God had wanted us to fully understand it, He would have revealed it. Some things that are not clear must be for Him alone to know and we have no business trying to decode such enigmatic scriptures into a meaning that we were never intended to know in the first place.
It is apparent that there is sufficient evidence about tongues that they are clearly a sign for unbelievers, Jews or otherwise. They are also a sign that God is at work. The earliest church historians never mention that speaking in tongues continued to occur in the church after all the apostles were gone. Speaking in tongues is a rather recent movement in the 19th century. I speak Spanish and I feel that some people are gifted at learning other languages. My former pastor picked up several African languages at the time he was on mission trips. He had a gift for it. But it was a known language. I can speak in “other” tongues, like English, Spanish, and even some Greek but what sounds like gibberish to those who don’t know them, it is a known language. But these are known languages and I am not just “letting myself go”.
I have been told that I have never been “filled by the Holy Spirit” or been “truly baptized into the Holy Spirit” unless I have spoken in tongues. That is not biblical nor should someone feel less “spiritual” if they don’t speak in tongues. By the way, tongues are the last gift mentioned of all the gifts of the Spirit and love is over and above all other things. In my humble opinion, charismatic’s too often take it to the extreme and belittle those who do not speak in tongues and incorrectly associate their not being filled with the Spirit when this is actually a one-time event at the moment a believer receives the Holy Spirit at conversion. You can not have any more of the Holy Spirit, nor can you have any less of Him. You either have the Holy Spirit or you don’t.
Sources:
1. John F. Walvoord and Roy B. Zuck, trans., The Bible Knowledge Commentary – New Testament. (Colorado Springs, CO.: David C Cook, Publisher, 1984).
What is Speaking in Tongues? A Biblical Analysis
Many years ago I visited a church while out of town. At the time I was unaware that it was a charismatic church. When the church services started, it was quite clear that they believed in the gift of tongues. I was urged to speak in tongues and to “give it up” to the Spirit. I needed to speak in tongues to be “baptized with the Holy Ghost.“ As I prayed over this and pondered whether I should try and speak in tongues, nothing happened. I even contemplated faking it. I felt somewhat ostracized because I actually never did speak in tongues. I was praying at the time that, “God, if you want me to speak in tongues, please enable me by the Spirit to do so.“ Nothing ever came out and I felt completely inadequate compared to the other believers who were speaking in tongues that I didn’t understand. There were several speaking at the same time as they were dancing and jumping up and down. To me, it was a little frightening and confusing.
The tongues I heard that night were completely unintelligible and it was an exercise in futility for me to try and understand what was being said. And no one was interpreting the tongues either which made it even worse. The whole assembly, minus me, was in a near frenzy and they were completely lost in their actions.
I can remember reading about tongues in Old Testament times where foreign tongues were not a good sign for Israel at all (Walvoord and Zuck 1984, 539). Foreign tongues were usually a warning to the nation. When I looked at the New Testament, what I found was that tongues are not a babbling of words, but that of a known language. This language was intelligible to those who spoke that language and understood by them.
Speaking in Tongues in the New Testament
The first place that speaking in tongues occur in the New Testament was in Acts 2:1-4: “When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.” The word tongues has a literal translation in the Greek of “languages”. This means that the tongues that were being spoken were those of a known language. The tongues were words with specific meaning and not just babbling. This is clarified in Acts 2:7-11, “Utterly amazed, they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans? Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language? Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome, (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!”
So those who heard these tongues or languages were languages that were known and that the believers may not have known how to speak. That was a miracle but the miracle was not for the believers benefit but were a sign for the unbelievers (I Cor. 14:22). These verses were a sign that God used to signify that the Gentiles were receiving salvation to those who did not believe (Walvoord and Zuck 1984, 382).
So clearly, speaking in tongues in the New Testament church were tongues of known languages and not unknown languages or unintelligible sounds. Since many in Judea were bilingual and some even trilingual, it’s not really that surprising that there were many languages being spoken (Walvoord and Zuck 1984, 357). They were praising God in different tongues or languages to give evidence for unbelievers that God was at work in more ethnic groups than just the Jews. This validated the fulfillment of Joel chapter two to the Jews as well (Walvoord and Zuck 1984, 408).
Speaking in Tongues and the Baptism of the Holy Spirit
Acts 10:44-46 also has a reference to tongues: “While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues (literally, languages) and praising God.” Notice that the Holy Spirit was poured out and they were not baptized into the Holy Spirit or received a baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Speaking in tongues is a sign for unbelievers and not what some charismatic churches claim as the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Nowhere in the New Testament is it written that they spoke in tongues and were baptized in the Holy Spirit. For believers, the receiving of the Holy Spirit is a one time event and it is not a sign of being filled up by the Spirit or being baptized into the Holy Spirit. It is precisely for the reason of validating God’s acceptance of the Gentiles to the Jews and this acceptance by God for all people was at a specific time in history (Walvoord and Zuck 1984, 408).
Tongues: A Sign for Unbelievers
Biblical scholars agree that in Acts 19:1-7 and elsewhere that these verses clearly indicate that tongues were intended “to overcome unbelief” (Walvoord and Zuck 1984, 409). They were specifically for unbelievers and to validate Paul’s message and to overcome the listener’s unbelief (Walvoord and Zuck 1984, 408, 409).
Even at the risk of offending some, this reminds me of snake handlers. Some churches take one text out of context and make it a pretext and sadly, the worship is more centered on the gift of tongues or the handling of snakes than it is with Christ being the center of worship. Jesus Christ should always be the center of all worship services and never any gift since Paul tells us not to exalt in any gifts of the Spirit since they come from God anyway.
Taking Text out of Context
Here is a personal note on the gift of tongues and the twisting of scriptures. Sadly, many denominations or churches do not take problematic scriptures and place them against all the scriptures relating to a particular subject to discover the proper context to see whether it is biblically sound or not. This is what is meant by “rightly dividing the Word of God” (II Tim 2:15) and “scripture is of no private interpretation” (II Pet. 1:2). A sound principle is that if there is a problematic scripture or verse; take all the other scriptures that relate to this subject and place them all against the one scripture or scriptures to bring clarity to the subject. If we still can not decide its meaning, then this might be God’s prerogative alone to know about and we have no business trying to inject or infer meaning when God is not clear on the subject. If God has not plainly revealed its meaning in scripture or it is not clarified by other scripture, then this is not revelation from God intended for us and should not be taken as such. Revelation from men is highly questionable and not like the inerrant Word which is infallible. If God had wanted us to fully understand it, He would have revealed it. Some things that are not clear must be for Him alone to know and we have no business trying to decode such enigmatic scriptures into a meaning that we were never intended to know in the first place.
It is apparent that there is sufficient evidence about tongues that they are clearly a sign for unbelievers, Jews or otherwise. They are also a sign that God is at work. The earliest church historians never mention that speaking in tongues continued to occur in the church after all the apostles were gone. Speaking in tongues is a rather recent movement in the 19th century. I speak Spanish and I feel that some people are gifted at learning other languages. My former pastor picked up several African languages at the time he was on mission trips. He had a gift for it. But it was a known language. I can speak in “other” tongues, like English, Spanish, and even some Greek but what sounds like gibberish to those who don’t know them, it is a known language. But these are known languages and I am not just “letting myself go”.
I have been told that I have never been “filled by the Holy Spirit” or been “truly baptized into the Holy Spirit” unless I have spoken in tongues. That is not biblical nor should someone feel less “spiritual” if they don’t speak in tongues. By the way, tongues are the last gift mentioned of all the gifts of the Spirit and love is over and above all other things. In my humble opinion, charismatic’s too often take it to the extreme and belittle those who do not speak in tongues and incorrectly associate their not being filled with the Spirit when this is actually a one-time event at the moment a believer receives the Holy Spirit at conversion. You can not have any more of the Holy Spirit, nor can you have any less of Him. You either have the Holy Spirit or you don’t.
Sources:
1. John F. Walvoord and Roy B. Zuck, trans., The Bible Knowledge Commentary – New Testament. (Colorado Springs, CO.: David C Cook, Publisher, 1984).
T
AmorRegis
I'm sorry that you were smacked by the Bible and in this circumstance are now expressly opposed to the gift of tongues. Surely this is what Paul spoke of when he said "if I have not Love."
You make some great points, your Faith is not defined by your gift(s) nor is your Super Spiritualism. Those angles of approach are really against scripture as opposed to for it. I attend a church that doesn't make "tongues" a prerequisit to your walk and I really appreciate that. However,I don't see the logic in saying a whole denomination is wrong because you attended a mislead church, and I agree that a lot of Pentecostal churches behave in like manner, but not all of them. Not every Catholic church is suspect because of one piece of doctrine and the list goes on and on. Not every Baptist is protesting/blaming/judging the way that the crazy church in the states has been doing. And because of one church going way off the reservation, not every Baptist is villainous. Just a few thoughts...
Zone
Always enjoy your posts. Thanks for posting 2nd Tim.3 : 10-17 Given Pauls' passion for open, transparent teaching he plainly says that we know what he has taught and believes, and if he has taught and believes in Tongues and Gifts from the Spirit,shouldn't we heed Paul and make a quest for receiving those gift(s)??
I do really enjoy these civil conversations, thank you folks and I look forward to many more thoughts on the topic.
The Machine
I'm sorry that you were smacked by the Bible and in this circumstance are now expressly opposed to the gift of tongues. Surely this is what Paul spoke of when he said "if I have not Love."
You make some great points, your Faith is not defined by your gift(s) nor is your Super Spiritualism. Those angles of approach are really against scripture as opposed to for it. I attend a church that doesn't make "tongues" a prerequisit to your walk and I really appreciate that. However,I don't see the logic in saying a whole denomination is wrong because you attended a mislead church, and I agree that a lot of Pentecostal churches behave in like manner, but not all of them. Not every Catholic church is suspect because of one piece of doctrine and the list goes on and on. Not every Baptist is protesting/blaming/judging the way that the crazy church in the states has been doing. And because of one church going way off the reservation, not every Baptist is villainous. Just a few thoughts...
Zone
Always enjoy your posts. Thanks for posting 2nd Tim.3 : 10-17 Given Pauls' passion for open, transparent teaching he plainly says that we know what he has taught and believes, and if he has taught and believes in Tongues and Gifts from the Spirit,shouldn't we heed Paul and make a quest for receiving those gift(s)??
I do really enjoy these civil conversations, thank you folks and I look forward to many more thoughts on the topic.
The Machine
J
I speak in tongues, not on my own. That would be fake. "As the SPIRIT gives the utterance" as they say.
We do have a church in our town that fake it. I have heard accounts from people who went there and when they went to the altar to pray someone handed them a pamphlet or they instructed them on how to speak in tongues. SHAMEFUL. No one taught me. I have prayed in tongues in church with others during worship service and alone in my home in the quiet time.
If what I just said gets their panties in an uproar, well TOUGH! It's real, It's for today, and Since GOD is giving this out to HIS people I'm gonna take it!!!!
We do have a church in our town that fake it. I have heard accounts from people who went there and when they went to the altar to pray someone handed them a pamphlet or they instructed them on how to speak in tongues. SHAMEFUL. No one taught me. I have prayed in tongues in church with others during worship service and alone in my home in the quiet time.
If what I just said gets their panties in an uproar, well TOUGH! It's real, It's for today, and Since GOD is giving this out to HIS people I'm gonna take it!!!!
This is a good point actually, couple of years ago my church held a seminar ove a weekend on Gifts of the Holy Spirit, with a prominent authority on the subject, there is lot of mis-understanding in the church, demonstrated by comments being made on this topic. Without giving an hour presentation on the subject, I will just summarise as to what we were shown and told.
This type of tounge, is primarily a gift for a person to use in private interaction with Holy SPirit and God, if you feel you want to pray or honour God, but dont now what to say, just speak in tounges. However, a few words of our own langauge we understand to God carries more weight than an hour talking in tounges.
It can be also used from time to time as a method for God to deliver a message, there is a clear and concise way this works. This happens in my church on average about 10 times a year. In my church there are only 3 people who God uses in this way, one of them will stand up and speak in tongues, then depending on whom it is, one of them can interpret it themsleves, but we also have another couple of people in the church who are given ability to translate these , which they do, so we have a Tounge and translation. The translation is often very precise and short, which is very much in nature of GOd. After the message is given the leaders make note of it and pray about it and test it out.
As already mentioned, there is a lot of fake things going on in the church today, along with abusing of this gift. We have spirits other than the Holy Spirit giving people the impression they are dealing with Holy Spirit and what come out of thier mouths is influenced by HOly SPirit, when its not. Then there are people just faking it and making random babling sounds. Many churches use this incorrectly, its not ment to be used on mass when the person on the platform instructs them, certainly a few quite moments of prayer you hear a few people speaking out loud in tounges, but then we understand the context and they are not really addressing anyone else with it.
I hope this clears things up a little.
I left the church because I saw a false arrogance in people thinking that babbling allowed them to judge others who didnt as not receiving the Holy Spirit. Personally I now pray to God in words I understand. In times of distress when words are difficult, I groan and cry to Jesus where He knows whats wrong with me Amen
Unfortunately Terry, that is all too common these days, especailly with the cancer of faith and prosperity spreading through the churches. People who start to use gifts as bragging rights and using these things as a badge and status symbol in order to tank themselves above others, will end up having them taken away, assuming God gave them in first place and not something else, but as easily as God gave me ability, God can take away.
Like I said a day of speakin in tounges over something, is no where near as meaningful and heartfelt to God as saying a couple of sentances which you understand yourself.
We all fail to understand what spirit is, we all have a spirit, its that part of us which remains after our physical dies, all our bodies are flesh and bone and nothing else, one of reasons why many aspects of our personality and so on are an enigma to science, only place they can look is the brain, until they accept we are alive in a spiritual plane and dimension as well, then they will continue to guess and wonder.
Think of speaking in tounges in this way as simply your own spirit , reastablishing a dialouge between the Holy Spirit, talking in a langauge only Holy Spirit understands.
Like I said a day of speakin in tounges over something, is no where near as meaningful and heartfelt to God as saying a couple of sentances which you understand yourself.
We all fail to understand what spirit is, we all have a spirit, its that part of us which remains after our physical dies, all our bodies are flesh and bone and nothing else, one of reasons why many aspects of our personality and so on are an enigma to science, only place they can look is the brain, until they accept we are alive in a spiritual plane and dimension as well, then they will continue to guess and wonder.
Think of speaking in tounges in this way as simply your own spirit , reastablishing a dialouge between the Holy Spirit, talking in a langauge only Holy Spirit understands.
S
Amen Sister but it seems, at least in my experiences that you can not get these people to see the obvious teaching on languages. and its funny i used the word experiences because some i have sat down with in the scriptures swore the bible was there final authority, i mean swore by sola scriptura, but spoke as if there personal experiences somehow trump scripture.
in Christ brother Travis
in Christ brother Travis
1
1 Cor 14
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers;
Yet we have all these folks saying they do it alone in private.
Why?
There are no unbelievers present.
Proving once again, that what's being practiced today does NOT mirror what we see in the Bible. Meaning today's "manifestations" are counterfeit/fake/unbiblical.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers;
Yet we have all these folks saying they do it alone in private.
Why?
There are no unbelievers present.
Proving once again, that what's being practiced today does NOT mirror what we see in the Bible. Meaning today's "manifestations" are counterfeit/fake/unbiblical.