Spiritual nonsense and dealing with it

[Nehemiah6]

There is no question that Christian forums (as well as churches, radio and TV programs, blogs, websites etc) are getting enmeshed in a lot of spiritual nonsense. There are all kinds of bizarre theologies which are cropping up all the time. And ancient heresies are being promoted as though they are Bible truth. Ever since theological liberalism raised its ugly head, there has been a lot of nonsense published under the guise of truth. And we are now in the midst of the Great Apostasy.

PART I

HIGHER CRITICISM
“Higher criticism, which is also known as the historical-critical method, is a method of examining the Bible that seeks to discover what was originally meant in the various documents as they were penned in their culture and time. This approach assumes a secular perspective and denies the supernatural inspiration of Scripture. Therefore, its conclusions must be in harmony with a secular, non-supernatural worldview. This automatically negates the possibility of prophecy and inspiration from God. Higher Criticism is in contrast to Lower Criticism which is the examination of the physical texts, their origin, the reliability, and the transmission.”
https://carm.org/what-is-higher-criticism-and-the-historical-critical-method-of-examining-the-bible

Higher Criticism has corrupted all the mainline denominations and seminaries through theological liberalism. And theological liberalism has corrupted evangelical and fundamentalist churches through the Emergent Church Movement (which has also adopted some Catholic ideas about Contemplative Prayer, rosary beads, etc).

NEW AGE NONSENSE
Oprah Winfrey, who was exposed to Gospel truth (and who is now currently on the Black Lives Matter bandwagon) is a New Ager, and has been promoting this false religion for quite some time. Unfortunately a lot of uninformed or misinformed women think Oprah is the best thing that happened since sliced bread. And they have been led astray. New Age beliefs are a vast smorgasbord of beliefs, mainly derived from Hinduism and Buddhism. Pantheism (God is in everything, and everything is God) is one of the main beliefs “Therefore, the New Age solution is to seek "higher consciousness" through meditation, breathing exercises, yoga, diet, crystals, channeling. spirit guides, and more.”

SCIENTOLOGY
Scientology is also derived from Hinduism. According to their web site “Scientology comprises a body of knowledge which extends from certain fundamental truths. Prime among these are: (1) Man is an immortal spiritual being. (2) His experience extends well beyond a single lifetime. (3) His capabilities are unlimited, even if not presently realized." In other words man can eventually become God (similar to the Mormon belief along the same lines)

THE PROSPERITY GOSPEL
This false Gospel is preached and promoted by “Christian” evangelists and televangelists primarily from the Word of Faith Movement, but they have abandoned the true Gospel and substituted “another gospel”.

“The prosperity gospel (also known as the “health and wealth gospel” or by its most popular brand, the “Word of Faith” movement) is a perversion of the gospel of Jesus that claims that God rewards increases in faith with increases in health and/or wealth. As Stephen Hunt explains, ‘In the forefront is the doctrine of the assurance of “divine” physical health and prosperity through faith. In short, this means that “health and wealth” are the automatic divine right of all Bible-believing Christians and may be procreated by faith as part of the package of salvation, since the Atonement of Christ includes not just the removal of sin, but also the removal of sickness and poverty.’”
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/what-you-should-know-about-the-prosperity-gospel/

CALVINISM
Calvinism has acquired the veneer of respectability since it is a part of Reformed Theology, which goes back to the Reformation (but is derived from some of the ideas of Catholic bishop Augustine). It has become rather popular in recent times, but it is false nonetheless. It teaches that Christ died only for the so-called elect, since God elects (and has predestined) some for Heaven and others for Hell. This simply opposes the true Gospel, which says that Christ died for all mankind, and all may be saved by obedience to the Gospel. That the Gospel of God itself is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who believes (Romans 1:16)

ROMAN CATHOLICISM
Roman Catholicism (or Catholicism) is a mixture of truth and error, which teaches (1) baptismal regeneration, (2) salvation through the sacraments, (3) salvation through the Catholic Church, (4) the veneration of Mary, and (5) the existence of a fictitious purgatory. Catholics themselves are fine, moral, upstanding, religious people who have been misled by their hierarchical clergy. Why they continue to remain adherents of this False Christianity is a mystery (the Mystery of Iniquity), especially since the Bible and the true Gospel are now freely available.

 

[Nehemiah6]

PART II

CHARISMATIC CONFUSION
Charismatic confusion is illustrated in the fact that there are “Charismatic Catholics”. How in the world can there be Charismatic Catholics when Catholic and Pentecostal beliefs are poles apart? The Charismatic Movement was started by an Anglican clergyman, and then took off like wildfire. That led to the “Toronto Blessing” Movement, and all kinds of bizarre phenomena being described as manifestation of the Holy Spirit. Later on the Kundalini Movement entered into Charismatic groups, and that is derived from Hinduism.

“I’ve written on some of these manifestations in charismatic churches on this blog, but Howse pointed out a YouTube video that really brings it home how false they are, how they are EXACTLY what goes on in the pagan religion of Hinduism in the form of ‘Kundalini Yoga.’ I’ve heard many times how similar it all is without ever having witnessed it. In this case Andrew Strom, an ex-charismatic ‘prophet’ who has been exposing this movement for years now, has put up footage of the same manifestations occurring in a Hindu context, and there is no doubt that this is satanic stuff.”
https://truthinreality.com/2012/09/12/charismatic-deceptions-hinduism-kundalini-kriyas-etc/

FALSE ESCHATOLOGY
There is more confusion about Bible prophecies and end-time events (and their sequence) than just about any subject. Once again it all goes back to Augustine, bishop of Hippo (in Algeria, North Africa) who decided that there was no such thing as a literal future Millennium of 1,000 years. Bible prophecies were spiritualized and fantasized, and applied to historical events. Thus the Reformers claimed that the pope was the Antichrist, and now the Seventh Day Adventist denomination claims that the papacy is the Antichrist, and Sunday worship equals the Mark of the Beast. There is a lot of absurdity being passed off as sound interpretation, but Christians should not be fooled.

JUDAIZING WITHIN THE CHURCHES
Every since Jews have been believing on the Lord Jesus Christ as their true Messiah, there has been a movement among Messianic Jews to judaize their churches (and the “Jewish Roots” movement has encouraged this). Believing Jews have been segregating themselves from Gentile Christians, and trying to maintain a Jewish form of religion. They have revived the practices of the Old Covenant, and seek to observe the 7th day Sabbath, as well as the feasts and festivals within the Law of Moses. But since there is no temple of God in Jerusalem, none of those feasts and festivals can be properly observed. However, the apostle Paul made it perfectly clear that Jesus would not have any division between Jew and Gentile within the Church of God. Hence this is a travesty.

ANCIENT HERESIES REGARDING THE DEITY OF CHRIST AND THE TRINITY
All the cults have abandoned the true doctrine of Christ and have created “another Jesus” and “another gospel”. They refuse to believe plainly that Jesus is God, and that the triune Godhead consists of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit – one God yet three persons (which is “the Mystery of God and Christ”). They also reject the doctrine of eternal Hell, preach Annihilationism, and salvation by works rather than by grace through faith in Christ alone and His finished work of salvation.

How should Christians deal with false beliefs? Quite simply by believing what is actually revealed in Scripture, without any reference to man-made doctrines. We are not required to attack others personally. But Christians should be able to present Bible truth in opposition to the lies of Satan. And also expose false doctrines and practices, since they are harmful to the spiritual well-being of others.

 

[pottersclay]

Creating God in our image is nothing new.
Usually these people believe in works salvation. Presenting a God that will make your life more comfortable, more blessed in material matters are what is being presented to day in the new age Gospel.
The falling away becomes a delusion in which they will believe. This is because they are not seeking a savior or think they need one but are seeking one to carry the hardship of their lives.
The Bible is very clear that the Lord will carry you through these hardships and misfortunes not take them away. The Lord uses these hardships and misfortunes for his glory to build faith and trust in the believer.

 

[Runningman]

Interpreting the Bible spawns a lot of doctrinal error because it can be complicated. We've seen repeatedly how people can look at the exact same verse and come to multiple vastly different conclusions on the meaning.

Other times the Bible is very straightforward. You may find that most Christians agree on core theology across the denominations. This is because core theology is explicitly stated. Tertiary theologies are often only implied without offering any discussion to answer all of the questions that speaking cryptically spawns.

Cultural norms, historical context, target audience, and much more information are absolutely prerequisite knowledge to understanding the Bible. The writers of the various scriptures had one way they intended what they wrote to be received. It is up to us to "rightly divide the word of truth." We need to understand it from their perspective and knowing their circumstances helps.

It sometimes becomes a question of whether or not your interpretation is more valid than someone else's and quite frankly we don't have the authority to assert that claim; actually no one does except God Himself.

When we search the scriptures we really need to take it serious. The "mind of flesh" cannot understand Spiritual things. Check your pride, ego, and itching ears at the door and pray for guidance to understand what God is trying to say. And mostly importantly try to listen to Him when He speaks.

 

[jcollins]

There is no question that Christian forums (as well as churches, radio and TV programs, blogs, websites etc) are getting enmeshed in a lot of spiritual nonsense. There are all kinds of bizarre theologies which are cropping up all the time. And ancient heresies are being promoted as though they are Bible truth. Ever since theological liberalism raised its ugly head, there has been a lot of nonsense published under the guise of truth. And we are now in the midst of the Great Apostasy.

PART I

HIGHER CRITICISM
“Higher criticism, which is also known as the historical-critical method, is a method of examining the Bible that seeks to discover what was originally meant in the various documents as they were penned in their culture and time. This approach assumes a secular perspective and denies the supernatural inspiration of Scripture. Therefore, its conclusions must be in harmony with a secular, non-supernatural worldview. This automatically negates the possibility of prophecy and inspiration from God. Higher Criticism is in contrast to Lower Criticism which is the examination of the physical texts, their origin, the reliability, and the transmission.”
https://carm.org/what-is-higher-criticism-and-the-historical-critical-method-of-examining-the-bible

Higher Criticism has corrupted all the mainline denominations and seminaries through theological liberalism. And theological liberalism has corrupted evangelical and fundamentalist churches through the Emergent Church Movement (which has also adopted some Catholic ideas about Contemplative Prayer, rosary beads, etc).

NEW AGE NONSENSE
Oprah Winfrey, who was exposed to Gospel truth (and who is now currently on the Black Lives Matter bandwagon) is a New Ager, and has been promoting this false religion for quite some time. Unfortunately a lot of uninformed or misinformed women think Oprah is the best thing that happened since sliced bread. And they have been led astray. New Age beliefs are a vast smorgasbord of beliefs, mainly derived from Hinduism and Buddhism. Pantheism (God is in everything, and everything is God) is one of the main beliefs “Therefore, the New Age solution is to seek "higher consciousness" through meditation, breathing exercises, yoga, diet, crystals, channeling. spirit guides, and more.”

SCIENTOLOGY
Scientology is also derived from Hinduism. According to their web site “Scientology comprises a body of knowledge which extends from certain fundamental truths. Prime among these are: (1) Man is an immortal spiritual being. (2) His experience extends well beyond a single lifetime. (3) His capabilities are unlimited, even if not presently realized." In other words man can eventually become God (similar to the Mormon belief along the same lines)

THE PROSPERITY GOSPEL
This false Gospel is preached and promoted by “Christian” evangelists and televangelists primarily from the Word of Faith Movement, but they have abandoned the true Gospel and substituted “another gospel”.

“The prosperity gospel (also known as the “health and wealth gospel” or by its most popular brand, the “Word of Faith” movement) is a perversion of the gospel of Jesus that claims that God rewards increases in faith with increases in health and/or wealth. As Stephen Hunt explains, ‘In the forefront is the doctrine of the assurance of “divine” physical health and prosperity through faith. In short, this means that “health and wealth” are the automatic divine right of all Bible-believing Christians and may be procreated by faith as part of the package of salvation, since the Atonement of Christ includes not just the removal of sin, but also the removal of sickness and poverty.’”
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/what-you-should-know-about-the-prosperity-gospel/

CALVINISM
Calvinism has acquired the veneer of respectability since it is a part of Reformed Theology, which goes back to the Reformation (but is derived from some of the ideas of Catholic bishop Augustine). It has become rather popular in recent times, but it is false nonetheless. It teaches that Christ died only for the so-called elect, since God elects (and has predestined) some for Heaven and others for Hell. This simply opposes the true Gospel, which says that Christ died for all mankind, and all may be saved by obedience to the Gospel. That the Gospel of God itself is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who believes (Romans 1:16)

ROMAN CATHOLICISM
Roman Catholicism (or Catholicism) is a mixture of truth and error, which teaches (1) baptismal regeneration, (2) salvation through the sacraments, (3) salvation through the Catholic Church, (4) the veneration of Mary, and (5) the existence of a fictitious purgatory. Catholics themselves are fine, moral, upstanding, religious people who have been misled by their hierarchical clergy. Why they continue to remain adherents of this False Christianity is a mystery (the Mystery of Iniquity), especially since the Bible and the true Gospel are now freely available.

Thank you for touching on some of the contemporary theologies present within the world mind, and for pointing out their shortcomings. I agree they do not speak to my heart with their elitist attitudes or their proposals for what is lacking in the average life. I know you raise these flags because you see injustice around you, and you want to bring people to christs' teachings of love God, love your brother. Now I will share with you a larger concern. The bible is itself a part of the same vast world mind which contains all these other teachings. Not all scripture is God be praised. The truth of what God created, what we were meant to experience which is life in, of, and through christ (to reference a common text) existed long before the bible was written, which is a catalogue of man's attempt to live on earth against the someones wishes. For some scriptural backing, consider; Return to me the glory we had before the world began. Why then is it written the son of man must suffer?

I feel like socrates chewing my hemlock when i say, according to the very bible we reference, the end will come as it is written, with so much destruction, it does not speak to my logic/morality/fellowship protocols which i call my heart and the bible names christ and logos. I sound like socrates when i say, the superstructure of religion and philosophy being taught is divisive , just as you recognise common fallicy in those teachings, however, to consider what a world of gods people would be like, is to fear our slow progress will end utterly short of its fruition. I.E. We gonna run out of time and fail to finish our work at the rate we are going, and that is our enemies hope. Everyday lived under oppression is one less day in the real world. So you agree with me when i ask- is not love god, love your brother enough? and point out 2000 years of gospel and brotherly love and also deception and subjugation of infrastructure and stratification whereby the average citizen cannot affect any concern or effect any change as you walk outside and see the same iniquities christ did in his day. May i point out, jerusalem was still destroyed, and all the apostles are dead, except maybe john... Christ came as a priest of the good things that are already here/.

Anyway, christian, you cannot both say, the world is under the control of the evil one, and also agree, The kingdoms of the earth have become the kingoms of the lord and his christ, amen come lord jesus.

 

[Nehemiah6]

So you agree with me when i ask- is not love god, love your brother enough?

Certainly. That is at the heart of the Law of Love.

 

[oldethennew]

MATT. 24:5.
For many shall come in My Name, saying, I am Christ; (Jesus is Lord), and shall deceive many.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Anyway, christian, you cannot both say, the world is under the control of the evil one, and also agree, The kingdoms of the earth have become the kingoms of the lord and his christ, amen come lord jesus.

That pronouncement (in the bold ^ ) will be made at the "7th Trumpet [/ 3rd Woe / 1st Vial]" point in the chronology, which has not yet taken place (nor have yet the many things that are slated to precede that point in the chronology).



(Revelation 11:15, etc - "And the seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were great voices in heaven, saying: 'The kingdom of the world has become that of our Lord and of His Christ, and He will reign to the ages of the ages.'")

 

[garee]

Thank you for touching on some of the contemporary theologies present within the world mind, and for pointing out their shortcomings. I agree they do not speak to my heart with their elitist attitudes or their proposals for what is lacking in the average life. I know you raise these flags because you see injustice around you, and you want to bring people to christs' teachings of love God, love your brother. Now I will share with you a larger concern. The bible is itself a part of the same vast world mind which contains all these other teachings. Not all scripture is God be praised. The truth of what God created, what we were meant to experience which is life in, of, and through christ (to reference a common text) existed long before the bible was written, which is a catalogue of man's attempt to live on earth against the someones wishes. For some scriptural backing, consider; Return to me the glory we had before the world began. Why then is it written the son of man must suffer?

I feel like socrates chewing my hemlock when i say, according to the very bible we reference, the end will come as it is written, with so much destruction, it does not speak to my logic/morality/fellowship protocols which i call my heart and the bible names christ and logos. I sound like socrates when i say, the superstructure of religion and philosophy being taught is divisive , just as you recognise common fallicy in those teachings, however, to consider what a world of gods people would be like, is to fear our slow progress will end utterly short of its fruition. I.E. We gonna run out of time and fail to finish our work at the rate we are going, and that is our enemies hope. Everyday lived under oppression is one less day in the real world. So you agree with me when i ask- is not love god, love your brother enough? and point out 2000 years of gospel and brotherly love and also deception and subjugation of infrastructure and stratification whereby the average citizen cannot affect any concern or effect any change as you walk outside and see the same iniquities christ did in his day. May i point out, jerusalem was still destroyed, and all the apostles are dead, except maybe john... Christ came as a priest of the good things that are already here/.

Anyway, christian, you cannot both say, the world is under the control of the evil one, and also agree, The kingdoms of the earth have become the kingoms of the lord and his christ, amen come lord jesus.

Christ came as a priest to reveal the good things "of faith not seen" with the eye the temporal but by faith , the unseen eternal .

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

When accused of being the Lord and Master, having no power of His own he declared the words the father put on his lips Why call me master One is good our good master God not seen. Good is defined the things not seen .

On the last day the kingdoms of this world will become the kingdoms of God under the new order. Not before the letter of the law death along with the sufferings of hell is tossed into the fiery judgment of God. The second death, death of death. It, death will not rise again and condemn through corruption another entire creation.

Christians after the new order are considered priest that hold out the gospel . As Ambassadors our citizenship is not of the world and neither is our born new birth .

We are sons 'of God what we will be no one knows .What we do know is our new incorruptible bodies will be neither male nor female, Jew nor gentile .But one glorious new bride.

 

[mailmandan]

I was recently in a discussion with a spiritual narcissist on a different Christian forum and after sharing that the gospel is the “good news” of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) and to “believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation, I was relentlessly attacked and accused of teaching a “decoy“ or “half gospel.” According to the spiritual narcissist, the other half of the gospel involved performance based works salvation and sinless perfection. False teachers are out in full force teaching spiritual nonsense these days on various Christian forums!

 

[EleventhHour]

I was recently in a discussion with a spiritual narcissist on a different Christian forum and after sharing that the gospel is the “good news” of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) and to “believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation, I was relentlessly attacked and accused of teaching a “decoy“ or “half gospel.” According to the spiritual narcissist, the other half of the gospel involved performance based works salvation and sinless perfection. False teachers are out in full force teaching spiritual nonsense these days on various Christian forums!

According to the spiritual narcissist, the other half of the gospel involved performance based works salvation and sinless perfection.

Definitely at the top if the list, however labeling it "spiritual nonsense" is too kind.

 

[Jackson123]

Thus the Reformers claimed that the pope was the Antichrist, and now the Seventh Day Adventist denomination claims that the papacy is the Antichrist, and Sunday worship equals the Mark of the Beast. There is a lot of absurdity being passed off as sound interpretation, but Christians should not be fooled.

i don't believe sunday worshiper is the mark of the beast, but I believe pope is antichrist

 

[Nehemiah6]

i don't believe sunday worshiper is the mark of the beast, but I believe pope is antichrist

The Antichrist has been given ONLY 42 MONTHS to rule the world. That proves that the pope is not the Antichrist.

And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. (Rev 13:5)

42 months = 1260 days = 3 1/2 years = time (1 yr) + times (2 yrs) +half a time (6 months). This is the first half of a seven-year period called Daniel's 70th Week.

 

[JaumeJ]

The Pope is no different than any self-proclaiming minister who puts on traditions of mankind in order to impress himself upon the assemblies. Look to those who are dressed more like Jesus, Yeshua.. Even then, be careful.

 

[Jackson123]

The Antichrist has been given ONLY 42 MONTHS to rule the world. That proves that the pope is not the Antichrist.

And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. (Rev 13:5)

42 months = 1260 days = 3 1/2 years = time (1 yr) + times (2 yrs) +half a time (6 months). This is the first half of a seven-year period called Daniel's 70th Week.

That is the last antichrist

Antichrist is not only one, there are many antichrist since apostle John

1 John 2:18
King James Version
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

Even now, even 2000 years ago there are many antichrist

 

[mailmandan]

i don't believe sunday worshiper is the mark of the beast

It blows my mind how Seventh-day Adventists can believe the ludicrous doctrine that the near the end of time the "mark of the best" of Revelation 14 will be placed upon those who worship on Sunday instead of Saturday. - https://nonsda.org/study8.shtml

 

[jcollins]

That pronouncement (in the bold ^ ) will be made at the "7th Trumpet [/ 3rd Woe / 1st Vial]" point in the chronology, which has not yet taken place (nor have yet the many things that are slated to precede that point in the chronology).



(Revelation 11:15, etc - "And the seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were great voices in heaven, saying: 'The kingdom of the world has become that of our Lord and of His Christ, and He will reign to the ages of the ages.'")

If christ didn't want them when they were offered in the desert, do you think he will want them at the end?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

If christ didn't want them when they were offered in the desert, do you think he will want them at the end?

That is a matter of its coming to Him via illegitimate means versus legitimate means.

 

[jcollins]

Christ came as a priest to reveal the good things "of faith not seen" with the eye the temporal but by faith , the unseen eternal .

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

When accused of being the Lord and Master, having no power of His own he declared the words the father put on his lips Why call me master One is good our good master God not seen. Good is defined the things not seen .

On the last day the kingdoms of this world will become the kingdoms of God under the new order. Not before the letter of the law death along with the sufferings of hell is tossed into the fiery judgment of God. The second death, death of death. It, death will not rise again and condemn through corruption another entire creation.

Christians after the new order are considered priest that hold out the gospel . As Ambassadors our citizenship is not of the world and neither is our born new birth .

We are sons 'of God what we will be no one knows .What we do know is our new incorruptible bodies will be neither male nor female, Jew nor gentile .But one glorious new bride.

When accused of being the Lord and Master I think you are referencing christs' statement- why do you call me good, there is only one who is good. In the world mind deception, the hope is you would think christ was referring to the earth, since God called it good, and its quiet true, btw... This is a form of hyper-literalism, to confuse humans into thinking, b/c nature can be violent, and animal society is strength based, we must deny the christ logos and the (order in the random).And listen to the enemy of man trying to deny people the divine nature.

On the last day the kingdoms of this world will... The earth and everything else have been gods since they were created, bible says the kingdoms of the world are become the kingdoms of the lord and his christ. bible also says, The wise servant will rule over a disgraceful son and and will share the inheritance as one of the brothers. Why else would the progenetor have to search for lost sheep?

Christians after the new order... Christian is a label given to some humans by the deceiver, human is label given to all christians at birth, here IS our citizenship, here is where men live, and God strengthens us against the oppression we face because of the gospel, or in a manner justified by the gospel, or because of our mistakes, or others mistakes which is the deciever uses to mock what christ is, and who we are, and how every minute of every day is supposed to be a different experience than what we see, which God gave us at the begining (through christ). Just as God loved christ just for being christ, we too can know such a joy, and will, or will it be too little too late and shall we genuflect night and day forever while the billions lie dead?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ 1 Corinthians 6:3a "Know ye not that we shall judge angels?"

The "24 elders" (IN HEAVEN before Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE" by opening the FIRST SEAL--and who I believe are representative of "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [i.e. us]) are shown to be ON THRONES (indicating a certain role), and they "do" more than float around on clouds for eternity.




[1Cor6:2 - "2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?"]