Suicide and overdoses DON'T mean you will go to hell!

[McPhersonX]

Now that I have your attention I hope you read my little sermon completely before you have your rebuttles.lol

Often times I have heard of people who while their hearts a broken because of the loss of a loved one who out of desperation for relief ended their life, because they were overwhelmed by grief or lonely isolation. Or to the wayward child or parent who succumbed to addictions and overdosed on a substance giving them a counterfeit happiness. Hears a preacher say that they have committed an unpardenable sin and will burn in he'll forever. And then when people are at their most sensitive time, be told that the only comfort to be had is that the lost soul can be a reminder of how we need to repent and come to Christ before it's too late.

I can say that I hate such instances and they are done by such ignorant and thoughtless people who deny mercy and the atonement of Christ and in a way teach about a God who is unmerciful and unjust.

Before I continue. Let me share some scriptures and then frame the context behind my conclusion.

1) Luke 4:18:19 KJV
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the broken hearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

2) 1 Peter 3:18,19 KJV
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

3) 1 Peter 4:6 KJV
For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

4) John 5:25 KJV
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

5) 1 Corinthians 15:29 KJV
Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? Why are they then baptized for the dead?

God in his perfection is perfectly just but also perfectly merciful. And it would not seem just to cast off his children who need his mercy the most. When someone is suffering so much that the only way that they feel they can make the pain stop is by making it so that they can physically feel pain any more, when they feel that life is so hard that they can't go on, for those pleading with their soul in a way they can't express verbally, yearning for vedine help and feeling that it isn't there. How could the Lord justly punish such a confused and hopeless soul? How does that show an infinite love to them?

God loves his children. And says that his are is out stretched all the day long if we would but come unto him.

He has prepared a way that the atonement of Christ can reach out to everyone who will take hold of it. That even in death people can hear a message of hope, that there is still a chance before their resurrection they can accept Christ. That even though they may be condemned by those left behind they can still be spiritually saved. That those who loved them can still do a work for them and help them recieve the baptism they have missed. That when they are resurrected they can be resurrected with the just unto life instead of the resurrection of the unjust unto a spiritual death.

I believe that this gives a perfect balance of mercy and justice. That all of the law may be fulfilled and exact. Yet mercy can be extended without robing justice. That all can be done for God's children that he loves unconditionally, but greaves when we turn from him and like the parable of the prodigal son can say. "It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found."

 

[Seeker47]

No rebuttal, agreement!

It is a huge mistake to put God in a human box. God is God and we will never fully understand his grace, his mercy or his wrath.

Suicide is a sin, so is an accidental overdose. In both cases someone as rejected God. But not all sin is the same (read the bible before you criticize this statement). We will never know on this earth what happens in those last moments between a suffering human and a loving God. That becomes our statement of faith.

The history of the Church has been specially brutal on this topic even to the point of not only condemning the deceased but also condemning their family. I m not aware of any biblical source for these human judgements.

 

[McPhersonX]

No rebuttal, agreement!

It is a huge mistake to put God in a human box. God is God and we will never fully understand his grace, his mercy or his wrath.

Suicide is a sin, so is an accidental overdose. In both cases someone as rejected God. But not all sin is the same (read the bible before you criticize this statement). We will never know on this earth what happens in those last moments between a suffering human and a loving God. That becomes our statement of faith.

The history of the Church has been specially brutal on this topic even to the point of not only condemning the deceased but also condemning their family. I m not aware of any biblical source for these human judgements.

I think anyone who understands the book of leviticus can see that some sins have different degrees of punishment. Though the old testament seems to be all law and no mercy it is great to have the teachings in the new testament to balance things out. Lol

 

[Chester]

Now that I have your attention I hope you read my little sermon completely before you have your rebuttles.lol

Often times I have heard of people who while their hearts a broken because of the loss of a loved one who out of desperation for relief ended their life, because they were overwhelmed by grief or lonely isolation. Or to the wayward child or parent who succumbed to addictions and overdosed on a substance giving them a counterfeit happiness. Hears a preacher say that they have committed an unpardenable sin and will burn in he'll forever. And then when people are at their most sensitive time, be told that the only comfort to be had is that the lost soul can be a reminder of how we need to repent and come to Christ before it's too late.

I can say that I hate such instances and they are done by such ignorant and thoughtless people who deny mercy and the atonement of Christ and in a way teach about a God who is unmerciful and unjust.

Before I continue. Let me share some scriptures and then frame the context behind my conclusion.

1) Luke 4:18:19 KJV
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the broken hearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

2) 1 Peter 3:18,19 KJV
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

3) 1 Peter 4:6 KJV
For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

4) John 5:25 KJV
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

5) 1 Corinthians 15:29 KJV
Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? Why are they then baptized for the dead?

God in his perfection is perfectly just but also perfectly merciful. And it would not seem just to cast off his children who need his mercy the most. When someone is suffering so much that the only way that they feel they can make the pain stop is by making it so that they can physically feel pain any more, when they feel that life is so hard that they can't go on, for those pleading with their soul in a way they can't express verbally, yearning for vedine help and feeling that it isn't there. How could the Lord justly punish such a confused and hopeless soul? How does that show an infinite love to them?

God loves his children. And says that his are is out stretched all the day long if we would but come unto him.

He has prepared a way that the atonement of Christ can reach out to everyone who will take hold of it. That even in death people can hear a message of hope, that there is still a chance before their resurrection they can accept Christ. That even though they may be condemned by those left behind they can still be spiritually saved. That those who loved them can still do a work for them and help them recieve the baptism they have missed. That when they are resurrected they can be resurrected with the just unto life instead of the resurrection of the unjust unto a spiritual death.

I believe that this gives a perfect balance of mercy and justice. That all of the law may be fulfilled and exact. Yet mercy can be extended without robing justice. That all can be done for God's children that he loves unconditionally, but greaves when we turn from him and like the parable of the prodigal son can say. "It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found."

The entrance into heaven is not based firstly and only on one's actions. It is based on whether one has faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ And of course one's faith will have implications in the actions and deeds of the person.

When a person has faith in Jesus Christ, his sins are forgiven/cleansed by the blood of Jesus Christ (I John 1:7). So the question to be answered when one commits suicide is this: at the deepest level (spirit) did they believe in Jesus?

But having said the above, we must be very, very careful here. To lay out some kind of hope that a lonely depressed person will get to heaven when they commit suicide is reprehensible. One does not gain a direct ticket to heaven by committing murder.

 

[Eli1]

This is an interesting topic and i think it's the Catholics mainly who have an absolute certainty that suicide means that you will automatically go to Hell.
Suicide can come from depression or from choosing to end your life with dignity because of insufferable and endless pain due to a disease.
I personally don't know where people will spend eternity after physical death, that's up to God only but this topic is not as cut and dry as we'd like to think of it from our perspective here and now.
The Orthodox Church, which i'm a member of, also looks at suicide in a very similar way to Catholics but not as strict. Most priests will understand that due to pain one can choose to end their life. But some others don't understand this and they don't offer funeral services for the family which i think it's not a very comforting thing to do for the family especially when one ends their life with dignity.
The churches i have been part of, usually provide funeral services for the family even on cases when young people (around 20) died from overdose or killed themselves from depression.
One mother in my church was crying for a whole year because her son killed himself with drugs and all we could do was hug her and try to comfort her. And yes the priest did provide a funeral for that young man.

 

[PennEd]

So the question to be answered when one commits suicide is this: at the deepest level (spirit) did they believe in Jesus?

This is really a question for all of that will one day die.

We STILL live in our broken, fleshly bodies. Even after our rebirth.

We may die of cancer, a heart attack, an accident, Alzheimer's, OR a mentally ill mind.

Samson committed suicide, yet the Holy Spirit came upon him to give him the strength to do just that.

I am in NO WAY suggesting that suicide is EVER the right choice, but the Lord alone knows our hearts and minds. So I don't think a person that commits suicide is necessarily lost.

 

[McPhersonX]

The entrance into heaven is not based firstly and only on one's actions. It is based on whether one has faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ And of course one's faith will have implications in the actions and deeds of the person.

When a person has faith in Jesus Christ, his sins are forgiven/cleansed by the blood of Jesus Christ (I John 1:7). So the question to be answered when one commits suicide is this: at the deepest level (spirit) did they believe in Jesus?

But having said the above, we must be very, very careful here. To lay out some kind of hope that a lonely depressed person will get to heaven when they commit suicide is reprehensible. One does not gain a direct ticket to heaven by committing murder.

I think that there is a harsh line when people approach suicide. Because they end their life people say they murdered themselves. But the Bible has laws against murder and laws about slayers. And the penalty for murder is death. So does the executioner also get condemned? I think there is more mercy to be had upon God's children than I think some are willing to give. If God is love don't forget that he has compassion otherwise we just sound like those in the Old Testament making God sound harsh and unempathetic.

 

[Seeker47]

This is an interesting topic and i think it's the Catholics mainly who have an absolute certainty that suicide means that you will automatically go to Hell.
Suicide can come from depression or from choosing to end your life with dignity because of insufferable and endless pain due to a disease.
I personally don't know where people will spend eternity after physical death, that's up to God only but this topic is not as cut and dry as we'd like to think of it from our perspective here and now.
The Orthodox Church, which i'm a member of, also looks at suicide in a very similar way to Catholics but not as strict. Most priests will understand that due to pain one can choose to end their life. But some others don't understand this and they don't offer funeral services for the family which i think it's not a very comforting thing to do for the family especially when one ends their life with dignity.
The churches i have been part of, usually provide funeral services for the family even on cases when young people (around 20) died from overdose or killed themselves from depression.
One mother in my church was crying for a whole year because her son killed himself with drugs and all we could do was hug her and try to comfort her. And yes the priest did provide a funeral for that young man.

There is a big difference between suicide and assisted suicide. Assisted suicide is deliberate murder. God's penalty for that crime is clear.

 

[Eli1]

There is a big difference between suicide and assisted suicide. Assisted suicide is deliberate murder. God's penalty for that crime is clear.

It's not as cut and dry but let us hope that we don't have to be in that situation.

 

[Seeker47]

I think that there is a harsh line when people approach suicide. Because they end their life people say they murdered themselves. But the Bible has laws against murder and laws about slayers. And the penalty for murder is death. So does the executioner also get condemned? I think there is more mercy to be had upon God's children than I think some are willing to give. If God is love don't forget that he has compassion otherwise we just sound like those in the Old Testament making God sound harsh and unempathetic.

A respectful question. Who makes God sound harsh and unempathetic in the old (First) testament? His very first act, creation, is an act of love and grace. (Did we do anything to earn it?) That theme is continual throughout His word. His justice for the faithful and His wrath for evil have never been quick, harsh or unthoughtful. If He were any of those, why then, did He need to send His Son?

Those false claims are made from outside the Bible, not inside. They are made to deceive and must be called out.

 

[McPhersonX]

A respectful question. Who makes God sound harsh and unempathetic in the old (First) testament? His very first act, creation, is an act of love and grace. (Did we do anything to earn it?) That theme is continual throughout His word. His justice for the faithful and His wrath for evil have never been quick, harsh or unthoughtful. If He were any of those, why then, did He need to send His Son?

Those false claims are made from outside the Bible, not inside. They are made to deceive and must be called out.

The over arching tone in the Old Testament does talk a lot about the doom and gloom, but when Israel is being chastised that's kinda what they focus on. Fore sure the start depicts a kind and loving God as he has been the entire time, but there is a lot of chastisement and destruction that comprises much of the Old Testament.

 

[CS1]

Now that I have your attention I hope you read my little sermon completely before you have your rebuttles.lol

Often times I have heard of people who while their hearts a broken because of the loss of a loved one who out of desperation for relief ended their life, because they were overwhelmed by grief or lonely isolation. Or to the wayward child or parent who succumbed to addictions and overdosed on a substance giving them a counterfeit happiness. Hears a preacher say that they have committed an unpardenable sin and will burn in he'll forever. And then when people are at their most sensitive time, be told that the only comfort to be had is that the lost soul can be a reminder of how we need to repent and come to Christ before it's too late.

I can say that I hate such instances and they are done by such ignorant and thoughtless people who deny mercy and the atonement of Christ and in a way teach about a God who is unmerciful and unjust.

Before I continue. Let me share some scriptures and then frame the context behind my conclusion.

1) Luke 4:18:19 KJV
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the broken hearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

2) 1 Peter 3:18,19 KJV
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

3) 1 Peter 4:6 KJV
For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

4) John 5:25 KJV
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

5) 1 Corinthians 15:29 KJV
Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? Why are they then baptized for the dead?

God in his perfection is perfectly just but also perfectly merciful. And it would not seem just to cast off his children who need his mercy the most. When someone is suffering so much that the only way that they feel they can make the pain stop is by making it so that they can physically feel pain any more, when they feel that life is so hard that they can't go on, for those pleading with their soul in a way they can't express verbally, yearning for vedine help and feeling that it isn't there. How could the Lord justly punish such a confused and hopeless soul? How does that show an infinite love to them?

God loves his children. And says that his are is out stretched all the day long if we would but come unto him.

He has prepared a way that the atonement of Christ can reach out to everyone who will take hold of it. That even in death people can hear a message of hope, that there is still a chance before their resurrection they can accept Christ. That even though they may be condemned by those left behind they can still be spiritually saved. That those who loved them can still do a work for them and help them recieve the baptism they have missed. That when they are resurrected they can be resurrected with the just unto life instead of the resurrection of the unjust unto a spiritual death.

I believe that this gives a perfect balance of mercy and justice. That all of the law may be fulfilled and exact. Yet mercy can be extended without robing justice. That all can be done for God's children that he loves unconditionally, but greaves when we turn from him and like the parable of the prodigal son can say. "It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found."

I agree with you to a point. The scriptures you used all are for those who are living not dead.

Suicide and an overdose are the effects of sin, but sin is the root cause. Nobody woke up and said hmm, I think I will kill myself.

it was imposed on them through abuse, mental disorders, and addictions. Yet God is the only judge of the living and the dead.

I know Christians who took their life due to the chemical drug prescribed had and adverse reaction and they killed themselves. God allowed that to happen I would venture to say that person is not in hell. Yet a life that has rejected the call from Christ over and over again can come to the end of their life and be taken by the enemy through drugs and suicide. Now I asa minister would not say ata furernal "YOUR Child is in hell." "Now let hold hands and pray. " That is just stupid. Our thoughts should turn to the living and let the dead bury the dead. the truth is every person who dies go to the Lord and receives judgement. I trust God to handle that part. We are to serve the living and mourn with those who mourn. The truth is those who have not called and believed on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ are not saved but condemned. as John 3:16-19 states. Jesus speaking. Dead men make no decisions but free ones do.

 

[Bruce_Leiter]

Now that I have your attention I hope you read my little sermon completely before you have your rebuttles.lol

Often times I have heard of people who while their hearts a broken because of the loss of a loved one who out of desperation for relief ended their life, because they were overwhelmed by grief or lonely isolation. Or to the wayward child or parent who succumbed to addictions and overdosed on a substance giving them a counterfeit happiness. Hears a preacher say that they have committed an unpardenable sin and will burn in he'll forever. And then when people are at their most sensitive time, be told that the only comfort to be had is that the lost soul can be a reminder of how we need to repent and come to Christ before it's too late.

I can say that I hate such instances and they are done by such ignorant and thoughtless people who deny mercy and the atonement of Christ and in a way teach about a God who is unmerciful and unjust.

Before I continue. Let me share some scriptures and then frame the context behind my conclusion.

1) Luke 4:18:19 KJV
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the broken hearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

2) 1 Peter 3:18,19 KJV
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

3) 1 Peter 4:6 KJV
For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

4) John 5:25 KJV
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

5) 1 Corinthians 15:29 KJV
Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? Why are they then baptized for the dead?

God in his perfection is perfectly just but also perfectly merciful. And it would not seem just to cast off his children who need his mercy the most. When someone is suffering so much that the only way that they feel they can make the pain stop is by making it so that they can physically feel pain any more, when they feel that life is so hard that they can't go on, for those pleading with their soul in a way they can't express verbally, yearning for vedine help and feeling that it isn't there. How could the Lord justly punish such a confused and hopeless soul? How does that show an infinite love to them?

God loves his children. And says that his are is out stretched all the day long if we would but come unto him.

He has prepared a way that the atonement of Christ can reach out to everyone who will take hold of it. That even in death people can hear a message of hope, that there is still a chance before their resurrection they can accept Christ. That even though they may be condemned by those left behind they can still be spiritually saved. That those who loved them can still do a work for them and help them recieve the baptism they have missed. That when they are resurrected they can be resurrected with the just unto life instead of the resurrection of the unjust unto a spiritual death.

I believe that this gives a perfect balance of mercy and justice. That all of the law may be fulfilled and exact. Yet mercy can be extended without robing justice. That all can be done for God's children that he loves unconditionally, but greaves when we turn from him and like the parable of the prodigal son can say. "It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found."

Suicidal people are often afflicted with the disease of major depression. How do I know? I was one of the people with major depression that grew steadily over a seven-year period, six of which were when I was a pastor. God healed me permanently in 1987. Anyway, I didn't have any suicidal thoughts but can see how depressed people can have them. I was motivated to get back into the ministry, and God used my eagerness to give me the means to be healed and serve four more congregations.

However, I have ministered to the devastated families, who need the comfort of the loved one's life that gives us hope that they can be in heaven in spite of their suicide. After years of thinking about Bible truths, i say that suicide is NOT the unforgivable sin. No passage says so. My conclusion is that the unforgivable sin is a whole life in rebellion against God, who is the only one who can judge anyone's faith, because true faith is an inner commitment that only God sees.

When we first trust in Jesus and begin to follow him, the Father, our Judge, declares us not-guilty (justifies us) for all our sins. If someone, therefore, has truly trusted in Jesus, which only God knows for sure, all their sins are forgiven during their whole life, including their suicide.

 

[tourist]

People's reply to suicide can be cold, callous, and unspiritual

I fully concur with your second paragraph and in general agreement on the rest of your post.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

It should never happen but in my lifetime alone I have seen Theology change per Generations. I was born in the Hell and Brimstone Theology and then watched the Church merge from that to several idealism's until now many are just promoting this ultra Grace stuff. God has [NEVER] changed so I don't believe Theology should. But I mainly mentioned what I did to get to the point of this Thread Topic.

As I have already stated being born into the Fire and Brimstone Era I can say one thing I do remember that I witnessed first hand from then for about the next 20 years and after that it just seems like it vanished. But I saw when people got Saved they got CHANGED!

Their way of thinking changed, their way of doing things changed, God got a hold of them and turned them around and they were FIXED!

We did not have this constant suicide issue and 20 terms for how a person was suffering. We had praying Grandma's who burnt the midnight oil and when you left from Prayer you [[NEVER]] was the same again.

What's happening today is a sham because people just aren't getting changed. They aren't praying through any more. They want the fast food McDonald's version and get a happy quick fix and 3 days later back doing what they said they were tired of doing.

So I don't know that God is saving as many people killing themselves as people want to claim. I just flat out don't buy it or believe it.

Because if you want changed God would do it if you seriously and genuinely wanted to be changed!

 

[tedincarolina]

Hey @McPhersonX

The only thing that will save a man from being cast away from God at the final judgment is his relationship with Jesus. If Jesus knows that person. According to the Scriptures, the only ones who will be saved are those whose names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life.

However, it begs the question, when someone is so desperate that the only way for them to go in the next 15 minutes of their life is to bring their life to an end by their own hand, where that hope in Jesus is? For those who are caught up in the addiction of drugs to the point that they lose their life, again it begs the question: was their hope in what the drugs would do for them rather than in Jesus?

It's really easy for any of us to say the magic words when asked about our relationship with the Lord. I believe the true testimony comes from how their life is lived.

God bless,
Ted

 

[SaysWhat]

The concerning part is the what could of been, the full plan for we all have one, rather short or long. Voluntarily ending the plan is heartbreaking.

Some are lead to do great things at a young age for the first time, as well as old age. Only God knows what might of been of the Voluntarily.