sunday worship is it just tradition ?

[KAdamW]

God rested on the last day of the creation account and blessed it, why? because He had created all he planed to do and rested from creating more, thus He rested. Are are still the this creation day, God is still resting, but will once again create a renewed heavens and earth when He comes again. This will be the 8th day of creation and the final day in with will last for eternity. Man was not mandated to rest on this day in the Genesis account of creation, only God rested and bless His creation.

The mandate of 7th day rest was instituted by God for the Israelites, for rest and worship, when God wrote the 10 commandments. I believe this points to Christ in that in Christ we receive our true rest, read Hebrews 4. Thus, if you are in Christ, you are resting and keeping the sabbath, on every day, not just one day. Thus the 7th day Jewish sabbath was a type and shadow of rest we have in Christ Colossians 2:16-17. However, I think it a good pattern to follow by taking off 1 day to rest your body, but not necessarily a requirement (crap happens you know, and Jesus explained that-Luke 14:5 )

Jesus meant the sabbath to be a blessing for man, but some men has turned into a curse for other men. Jesus is Lord over the sabbath. Christ righteous has been imputed to me (Philippians 3:9, 2 Corinthians 5:21, Galatians 2:6, Romans 4:3, 5:17 and much much more...). Then in Christ I am righteous, and this I believe makes me Lord over the sabbath as well, the key prase, "IN CHRIST", Matthew 12.

There are several biblical accounts shown where early apostles and disciples gathered on the 1st day of the week to fellowship, already list in previous posts. There are several biblical accounts of Paul going into synagogues to convert Jews to Christ, to preach to them, I can't think of a better place to do that!, can you?, they were already gathered in one place.

Sunday is the day I worship because the resurrection of Christ is pivotal point of our Christian faith, it hinges on it. Without the resurrection our faith is vain - 1 Corinthians 15:14, Second, I am seen to the Father, in Christ, as already in the kingdom of God, I am a citizen of Heaven (Ephesians 1:3, 2:6, Colossians 2:12). In the new heaven and earth there is neither day (sun) nor night (moon), Christ is our light(Revelation 21:23)..

Last, we are not to make this an issue, as to the day, Romans 14.

Thank you and God bless.

Oh my where do I start?

It was made for man 2300 yrs prior to an Israelite existing. So claiming it was for them only is false.

Also it wasn't when he wrote the ten commands, it was the 7th day. But just for fun maybe take a peak before the commands were written in Exo 16. What day were they not allowed to gather mana? So false again.

This 8th day of creation where the Sabbath will last for eternity, false as well. Check Isa. 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

Now Colosians 2 subject is about doctrines of man versus the Laws of God, the whole chapter basically bashing man made laws and that to stick to what God says. It specifically warns you not to listen to false teaching from man about the Sabbath.

Cutting it short and going straight to Romans 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

The subject of eating is brought up twice in this chapter. It's sister passage can be found in 1Cor 8. The first time eating it is referring to meat sacrificed to idols and that some were confused and thought the meat became defiled by it being used in pagan sacrifice. But the second time it incorporates eating or not eating with the observance of particular days. No mention of the Sabbath whatsoever, The reason being is as new converts were entering to fold there was much confusion about what was done away with and what remained. Including feasting and fasting days, which is why the mention of eating and not eating on days were mentioned. Paul informs us that these feast and fasting days was up to the individual but no longer binding. Again no mention of the Sabbath or the ten commandments at all in this passage but people sure like to use it to explain why they don't need to keep the Sabbath.

Now as far as the subject goes about the confusion of what was done away with and what remained let's see what Hebrews was written for.

Heb 12:27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.

So he is telling us that certain things were removed and certain things did indeed remain. And the purpose of this book is supposed to help us with that. So what does Hebrews say about the Sabbath?

Heb. 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.


The word rest in verse 9 is mentioned in Strong's concordance;
"4520 σαββατισμός sabbatismos sab-bat-is-mos’

from a derivative of 4521; TDNT-7:34,989; {See TDNT 694} n m

AV-rest 1; 1

1) a keeping sabbath
2) the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by the true worshippers of God and true Christians"

 

[p_rehbein]

Praus, thank you for that comment, explination..........when it comes to Hebrew, it's all Greek to me.........

Seriously, thanks........

 

[Bookends]

Oh my where do I start?

It was made for man 2300 yrs prior to an Israelite existing. So claiming it was for them only is false.

No scriptures provided for this.

Also it wasn't when he wrote the ten commands, it was the 7th day. But just for fun maybe take a peak before the commands were written in Exo 16. What day were they not allowed to gather mana? So false again.

Ok, my point being that the sabbath wasn't instituted until the nation of Israel was freed from bondage. Show me scriptures where a day of worship and rest was commanded for Adam, Noah, Abraham etc.

This 8th day of creation where the Sabbath will last for eternity, false as well. Check Isa. 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

This is talking about the time we have on earth, not the heavenly realm. The idea is clear, that a time would come when Christ is worshiped regularly and periodically everywhere; that in all nations God's children would be established for spiritual worship to the true God, similar to ancient times. The only difference now, is that we worship in spirit and truth (John 4:23). Again, this is only mean that God's plan of redeeming His people continues on til it is all said and done.

Now Colosians 2 subject is about doctrines of man versus the Laws of God, the whole chapter basically bashing man made laws and that to stick to what God says. It specifically warns you not to listen to false teaching from man about the Sabbath.

And God says the substance is Christ, and to let no man judge me regarding the sabbath, the title in my bible on this passage is "Not Legalism but Christ." IMO, you fail to see the meater parts of the law, the true intentions of the law.

I don't fee it necessary to argue point after point with you, I will not do it.

 

[p_rehbein]

Quote from TannarDarr: There were umpteen billion different Sabbath days, weeks, months, even years that the Jews kept track of. Those were called Sabbaths, but they were NOT a one of them, THE SABBATH DAY. However, some of them fell on a Sabbath Day, or covered over it. Example a Sabbath month could have as many as five Sabbath days in it. But the Sabbath day would not be considered whichever sabbath they were celebrating. End Quote.......

Well, that clears it all up!................(just joking )

(let the debate continue.......)

 

[KAdamW]

No scriptures provided for this.

Gen. 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Gen 32:28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

Mr 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

Ok, my point being that the sabbath wasn't instituted until the nation of Israel was freed from bondage. Show me scriptures where a day of worship and rest was commanded for Adam, Noah, Abraham etc.

During Noah’s life, a seven day period was used as a marker of time by God, (Gen. 7:4, 10). Noah also used a seven day period to determine how often he sent forth a dove from the ark, (Gen. 8:12-14). Incidentally, “Noah” in Hebrew, means “rest”.

This weekly cycle is seen again being demonstrated to the Israelites, after their generations of pagan influences and separation from their God, (Exo. 16:23). It is later written for them by God, (Exo. 20:8-11). In both instances, it’s clear this weekly cycle is only contained within the Sabbath command itself.

John 1:1 IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
1 John 1:1 That which WAS FROM THE BEGINNING, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the WORD OF LIFE;
1 John 2:7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye HAD FROM THE BEGINNING. THE OLD COMMANDMENT IS THE WORD which ye have HEARD FROM THE BEGINNING.
1 John 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have HEARD FROM THE BEGINNING. If that which ye have HEARD FROM THE BEGINNING shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
1 John 3:11 For this is the message that ye HEARD FROM THE BEGINNING, that we should love one another.
2 John 1:5 And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we HAD FROM THE BEGINNING, that we love one another.
2 John 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have HEARD FROM THE BEGINNING, ye should
walk in it.

1. The Sabbath was instituted and on the Seventh Day(Gen2:2,3).
2. Specific offerings were given, or they would be rejected, long before Sinai or Israelite(Gen.4:5).
3. Murder was a not allowed, before Sinai or Israelite (Gen.4:13).
4. The separation of unclean and clean meats was already known, before Sinai or Israelite(Gen.7:1).
5. Adultery was considered a sin, before Sinai(Gen.39:9).
6. The Sabbath was called a law and a commandment, before Sinai(Exo.16:28*).

*[He also states; "My laws and commandments", the plural for both which tells us several things.]

a. There was more than one law and commandment established prior to this statement.
b. These laws and commandments existed before Sinai.
c. The 7th day Sabbath was included in them.

This is talking about the time we have on earth, not the heavenly realm. The idea is clear, that a time would come when Christ is worshiped regularly and periodically everywhere; that in all nations God's children would be established for spiritual worship to the true God, similar to ancient times. The only difference now, is that we worship in spirit and truth (John 4:23). Again, this is only mean that God's plan of redeeming His people continues on til it is all said and done.

It says the new heavens and new earth. So unless you are seeing something else, this is after all is said and done, this is eternity.

And God says the substance is Christ, and to let no man judge me regarding the sabbath, the title in my bible on this passage is "Not Legalism but Christ." IMO, you fail to see the meater parts of the law, the true intentions of the law.

I don't fee it necessary to argue point after point with you, I will not do it.

Do you not see the irony in your comment, about the passage title that was written by the people who printed your Bible or the translator?

Col. 2:4 And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words.

Col. 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Col. 2:16 “Let no man therefore judge you…”

Col. 2:18 “Let no man beguile you…”

Col. 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

Col. 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using; after the commandments and doctrines of men?

6 times within an 18 verse span Paul reminds who these ordinances belong to. This gives us no doubt as to the common root of the heresy that Paul was dealing with, they were the worldly doctrines of men. He is contrasting the authority of Christ in all these matters, with that of mans. And in response you quote an uninspired man who labeled your passage. That's irony for you.

I am doing the same thing the passage is telling you, believe God's word about the Sabbath, not man's. I do find it funny that even though the chapter explicitly repeats to trust only God on these matters they use it to try and prove manmade doctrine.

If you don't wish to discuss point for point then perhaps refrain from posting so many blatantly inaccurate pieces of info before you have done the homework. Scripture is a serious subject.

 

[AgnusDei]

Well, yes. Nowadays Sundays services turned out to be just tradition. Most people go to a congregation because it is something they must do. It becomes a routine. And many people try to make Sunday services entertaining and exciting adding things that are unnecessary. The Word of God itself is attractive to bring people in. We go to a congregation to celebrate God's salvation but also to clean our hearts and to be confronted. And we Christians ARE THE CHURCH. We are supposed to be confronted and cleaned EVERY SINGLE DAY by God, we are supposed to celebrate Christ resurrection EVERY DAY, not just a Saturday or Sunday. Now, we also go to a congregation because we can't be mature by ourselves. We become arrogant and prideful thinking we know everything while being isolated. It happened to me: I was an arrogant person. I used to think I knew everything. Till one day, I shut my mouth and listened to a humble teacher and embarrassment came to me. I realize how pathetic I was. We need other people to help us, to teach us, to guide us and a congregation is the best place for that. We're a family. That's why early Christians met, to find strength in each other.
And it does not matter if our congregation is not of our taste.
How can we exercise love if we swap congregations all the time?

The real meaning of congregation is this: For there two or three are gathered together in my name, there I am in the midst of them. In a time where numbers are important, it is beautiful to see that even three Christians praying in a kitchen seeking God forms a congregation.

God didn't command anyone to worship Him a certain day, He commanded us to worship Him ALL OUR EXISTENCE.

 

[zone]

Do you not see the irony in your comment, about the passage title that was written by the people who printed your Bible or the translator?

Col. 2:4 And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words.

Col. 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Col. 2:16 “Let no man therefore judge you…”

Col. 2:18 “Let no man beguile you…”

Col. 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

Col. 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using; after the commandments and doctrines of men?

6 times within an 18 verse span Paul reminds who these ordinances belong to. This gives us no doubt as to the common root of the heresy that Paul was dealing with, they were the worldly doctrines of men. He is contrasting the authority of Christ in all these matters, with that of mans. And in response you quote an uninspired man who labeled your passage. That's irony for you.

I am doing the same thing the passage is telling you, believe God's word about the Sabbath, not man's. I do find it funny that even though the chapter explicitly repeats to trust only God on these matters they use it to try and prove manmade doctrine.

If you don't wish to discuss point for point then perhaps refrain from posting so many blatantly inaccurate pieces of info before you have done the homework. Scripture is a serious subject.

if people are not observing all things in the proper number and in the way prescribed for them, what exactly are they doing?

why are you offering burnt offerings and sin offerings since Jesus came?


Leviticus 23:2
"Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 'These are my appointed festivals, the appointed festivals of the LORD, which you are to proclaim as sacred assemblies.

1 Chronicles 23:31
and whenever burnt offerings were presented to the LORD on the Sabbaths, at the New Moon feasts and at the appointed festivals. They were to serve before the LORD regularly in the proper number and in the way prescribed for them.

2 Chronicles 31:3
The king contributed from his own possessions for the morning and evening burnt offerings and for the burnt offerings on the Sabbaths, at the New Moons and at the appointed festivals as written in the Law of the LORD.

Nehemiah 10:33
for the bread set out on the table; for the regular grain offerings and burnt offerings; for the offerings on the Sabbaths, at the New Moon feasts and at the appointed festivals; for the holy offerings; for sin offerings to make atonement for Israel; and for all the duties of the house of our God.

~

Leviticus: Seedbed of NT Theology (by Elin)

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/57882-leviticus-seedbed-nt-theology.html < click

 

[TannarDarr]

Please enlighten us as to where in scripture you find this 1st day worship?

Well, it doesn't exist. Which was the point. The history of the Church reveals a lot however. The seventh day is the Sabbath. That has been unchanging since Adam. People get some fantasy that SABBATH means go to church and worship. WHich is just ignoring the Bible. It's a day of rest, to remember what God has done.

History shows us the Early church, called The Way, kept the Sabbath Day holy. At some point, they started gathering for worshiping after the Sabbath. And at some point, it became tradition, and then the norm, and now a myth that it was always to be Saturday from Christ forward.

There is also a Myth that the Sabbath day is ONLY a Jewish law, and yet, it existed as a commandment before the Jews existed.

AND people forget that Jesus defended the Sabbath Day more than he commented on any other line of the Decalogue.

 

[resurrection33]

Sunday worship is it tradition from catholicism shouldnt it be the sabbath ? I ask this only to see your biblical scriptural opinions God bless

I've said this before on a similar thread: Just because Sunday shows up first on our calendar doesn't make it the first day of the week.

 

[TannarDarr]

Do you not see the irony in your comment, about the passage title that was written by the people who printed your Bible or the translator?

Col. 2:4 And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words.

Col. 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Col. 2:16 “Let no man therefore judge you…”

Col. 2:18 “Let no man beguile you…”

Col. 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

Col. 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using; after the commandments and doctrines of men?

6 times within an 18 verse span Paul reminds who these ordinances belong to. This gives us no doubt as to the common root of the heresy that Paul was dealing with, they were the worldly doctrines of men. He is contrasting the authority of Christ in all these matters, with that of mans. And in response you quote an uninspired man who labeled your passage. That's irony for you.

I am doing the same thing the passage is telling you, believe God's word about the Sabbath, not man's. I do find it funny that even though the chapter explicitly repeats to trust only God on these matters they use it to try and prove manmade doctrine.

If you don't wish to discuss point for point then perhaps refrain from posting so many blatantly inaccurate pieces of info before you have done the homework. Scripture is a serious subject.

There are a myriad of Sabbaths kept. Different Jewish factions kept different Sabbaths. They would argue about them to proclaim who was "more holy". Because after all, they were awaiting the messiah who they believed would be one from among them that kept the laws for a day. So it was a contest of them against the Law. And they all wanted to try to get better at it.

They also did the same with lineages. What tribe they came from, and to where their heritage traced....

Paul told the people to stop bickering over the many sabbaths. They are a shadow of what is holy.

 

[TannarDarr]

Quote from TannarDarr: There were umpteen billion different Sabbath days, weeks, months, even years that the Jews kept track of. Those were called Sabbaths, but they were NOT a one of them, THE SABBATH DAY. However, some of them fell on a Sabbath Day, or covered over it. Example a Sabbath month could have as many as five Sabbath days in it. But the Sabbath day would not be considered whichever sabbath they were celebrating. End Quote.......

Well, that clears it all up!................(just joking )

(let the debate continue.......)

The Sabbath Day would not have been confused with the myriad of Sabbaths Paul was referencing. The Sabbath day, to the Jew was about like flushing a toilet is to us. You do it every time and don't think about it. So a chat over what SabbathS you keep, wouldn't include the Sabbath Day as they always kept that one, there was no debate.

 

[TannarDarr]

No scriptures provided for this.

OH THAT IS UTTER BS. UNLESS YOU THINK ADAM WAS A WEEK OR TWO BEFORE JESUS AT LEAST. You really don't care to get to the bottom of the truth do you. You only want to defend what you were taught.

Ok, my point being that the sabbath wasn't instituted until the nation of Israel was freed from bondage.

THAT IS ANOTHER GAME SHOW BUZZ COMMENT.

Show me scriptures where a day of worship and rest was commanded for Adam, Noah, Abraham etc.

God declared the Sabbath at creation. was creation not there until AFTER the jews were freed?

And God says the substance is Christ, and to let no man judge me regarding the sabbath, the title in my bible on this passage is "Not Legalism but Christ." IMO, you fail to see the meater parts of the law, the true intentions of the law.

I don't fee it necessary to argue point after point with you, I will not do it.

1) I dont' care what your title says.
2) BUT, what it says proves our point, not yours.
.........a) Legalism references laws.
.........b) The Sabbath Day preexisted the laws, and the Jews.
.........c) Consider all the laws regarding the Sabbath that came afterwards, at the beginning of the Jewish people. From there you can start to surmise they had created some extra biblical traditions AND SABBATHS.
.........d) Go do a bing search for jewish sabbaths and read about all the different sabbaths they had. If you do some more looking, you'll find different sects of Jews, Essenes, Sadduccees, Pharisees, etc... kept some of the same Sabbaths, and kept some different Sabbaths.
They all wanted to be holy, and keep all the laws for ONE day, because their belief was THEN the Messsiah would come. SO THEY ALL tried to get it right. But the SABBATH DAY was NEVER NEVER NEVER not kept in their beliefs. The other Sabbaths, they might reason weren't relevant, or important...
3) The Substance is Christ. Agreed. What does that have to do with the Sabbath Day?
4) The second you pull out the MEAT card, you prove you lack the means to handle the discussion and seek for a dismissive way out of the chat.

ESPECIALLY, since your comment to meat, is skim milky at best.

 

[DragonSlayer]

Well, atleast we all know you are a Seventh Day Adventist.

Let me ask you a question. Please be honest, ok?

How many false prophecies does it take for Ellen G White to be declared a false prophetess?

I mean, if she prophesied one thing and it did not come to pass, then she would be a false prophet, right?

Yeah, E.White was a satanic freemason and proof is there's a masonic obelisk on her tomb, in addition to her awful writings;
she was a false prophetess !

But where you are not right, is to think the seventh day adventists would be the only ones to keep the sabbath on saturday, the seventh day of the week.

 

[Hizikyah]

“Sunday is our mark or authority...the church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact.” Catholic Record of London, Ontario, September 1, 1923.

“Protestants...accept Sunday rather than Saturday as the day for public worship after the Catholic Church made the change...But the Protestant mind does not seem to realize that...In observing the Sunday, they are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the church, the Pope.” Our Sunday Visitor, February 15, 1950.

“Sunday is founded, not of scripture, but on tradition, and is distinctly a Catholic institution. As there is no scripture for the transfer of the day of rest from the last to the first day of the week, Protestants ought to keep their Sabbath on Saturday and thus leave Catholics in full possession of Sunday.” Catholic Record, September 17, 1893.

Exodus 31:13, "Speak also to the children of Israyl, saying; Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for they are a *sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am Yahweh Who sanctifies you, and makes you holy."

*sign=Word #226, Hebrew Dictionary,Strong's Exhaustive Concordance,
meaning mark, token, sign, consent, flag, evidence of consent.

Ezekiyl 20:12, "Moreover, I also gave them My Sabbaths, to be a *sign between Me and them, that they might know that I am Yahweh Who sanctifies them."

Whos authority do you want to consent to?

 

[TannarDarr]

Well, atleast we all know you are a Seventh Day Adventist.

Let me ask you a question. Please be honest, ok?

How many false prophecies does it take for Ellen G White to be declared a false prophetess?

I mean, if she prophesied one thing and it did not come to pass, then she would be a false prophet, right?

eCan you show me where he propped up E.G. White?

I can't find it.

Without it you are throwing a red herring and ad hominem, and flat out LYING about the man's character.

The sad thing is, that's perfectly typical on these boards, and often I've seen people be banned because they corrected someone and the lie was assumed correct.

IF he didn't say he was e.g. white supporter than my response is, "You are a good Xian boy aren't you. Preach GOD by hook or by crook. Lies, character slurs, implied error, anything you can, since you can't support your position in the bible."

If He did, I'd ask if she was so wrong, and he is so wrong, then why is it so hard for you to answer the issues and refute his claims?

Why did you resort to trying to discredit his arguments, by tying them to E. G. WHite?

You were inappropriate and out of line there. There are many of us who acknowledge a first day sabbath who could give a crap about e.G. white.

Why is it the faith is full of freaks that just assume if someone doesn't agree with them, they must be demonic or something, and make them as evil as they could to keep their argument whole? Why can't you discuss scripture. Hermeneutically get to an answer, rather than attack his character?

You are uncouth.

 

[TannarDarr]

I did mean it in a non-personal way.

You attempted to discredit him on the grounds alone that he was an e.g. white follower. You fled the discussion to take a personal shot. HOW IN THE HELL is that not personal?

You are the one claiming the gulf between Hell and Abraham's bosom is not literal. You took the story of Lazarus and turned it into allegory. Which is contrary to the teachings of every denomination I have ever stepped into.

Errrrr... you think this is a literal story, that this ONE PERSON was sent to abraham, and everyone else goes to heaven? THis ONE EVENT was a unique and literal event? Do you take revelations literally too? Do you expect those magnaminous descriptions are literally how it's going to be? You must do so, or else you are hypocritical.

 

[TannarDarr]

if people are not observing all things in the proper number and in the way prescribed for them, what exactly are they doing?

why are you offering burnt offerings and sin offerings since Jesus came?

He's not? Why do you lie that he is to try to make a point? Is this some sorta cult who has ganged up on the man and hope enough people saying the same lies will make them true?

 

[TannarDarr]

Is the rule of the forum, whoever can get the most people to say the same lies, or arguments win?

Is there no care for hermeneutics and exegetics to get to the truth?

Or is it just a good ole boy cult where everyone must believe the same thing or they are shunned, no matter that their reasoning can't be refuted?

 

[cfultz3]

Is the rule of the forum, whoever can get the most people to say the same lies, or arguments win?

Is there no care for hermeneutics and exegetics to get to the truth?

Or is it just a good ole boy cult where everyone must believe the same thing or they are shunned, no matter that their reasoning can't be refuted?

Are you winning? If so, then I guess it is.

I suppose if people are not agreeing with you then they are not hermeneuticing this or exegeticing that. Seems a little one sided there.

I think we all should believe whatever is thrown out there so there will be harmony.

Most of the time, even Scripture cannot refute one's reasoning.

 

[cfultz3]

Errrrr... you think this is a literal story, that this ONE PERSON was sent to abraham, and everyone else goes to heaven? THis ONE EVENT was a unique and literal event? Do you take revelations literally too? Do you expect those magnaminous descriptions are literally how it's going to be? You must do so, or else you are hypocritical.

That is illogical reasoning....every single righteous person of the Law went to Paradise when they died, even Jesus and the other man. Where do you think Old Testament righteous people went to await their Messiah?

So if one take that Paradise was in Hades until the Messiah came and it is said that Christ went there to be true, then they also must take all things literally? Are we to take literal that the ones we are not to throw our pearls to are literal dogs? Are they really swines? Are we to literally crucify our flesh?